Player Watch Welcome to Hawthorn, Denver Grainger-Barras

[Strapping Young Lad]

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Doesn't look like he has put on much weight which is rather frustrating.

 

[almuz]

IF your long term KPD isn’t completely jacked by the age of 19, THEN you’ve got to ask where he is at

 

[TazHawk15]

Doesn't look like he has put on much weight which is rather frustrating.

Not like you to be on a downer.

If you have not worked out by now that the kid will more than likely be a Dustin Fletcher type build, then you will continue to be frustrated.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Doesn't look like he has put on much weight which is rather frustrating.

He has put on muscle across the shoulders but he will need a couple more seasons to be AFL ready as a KPD if that is indeed what they want him to be

 

[chopflop]

He has put on muscle across the shoulders but he will need a couple more seasons to be AFL ready as a KPD if that is indeed what they want him to be

Hey T4P.

Do you know if he is seen internally as more a last line defender or Jake lever type CHB?

 

[Slysh]

Doesn't look like he has put on much weight which is rather frustrating.

He looks significantly bigger than when he was drafted what 16 months ago?

 

[TylerDurden]

He's a lot bigger. Don't want him getting too big as he needs to work on his running/ endurance too.

 

[burner1]

He's a lot bigger. Don't want him getting too big as he needs to work on his running/ endurance too.

It’s unrealistic to think after two preseasons he’d have the strength to hold down a kpp. 4/5 years is more likely. Even Lewis who was a big unit to start with has taking 6 years to look like really holding down a kpf (hopefully this year).

Interesting challenge for the conditioning staff to continue to bulk DGB up AND improve a sub-standard tank/endurance. Unfortunately means he may take longer then we want to really hit his straps.

 

[GerryLewis]

I'm not sure DGB will be earmarked for the Dixon/Hawkins type forwards. I see him more as the Lever role, albeit playing more on the 2nd forward rather than the 3rd or 4th forward that Lever does.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Hey T4P.

Do you know if he is seen internally as more a last line defender or Jake lever type CHB?

Curretly its more about learning the systems and getting AFL fit. He will probably play on both types initially.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

I do get the worries about DGB's lack of size.

Comparisons have been made between DGB and Lever / Weitering at the start of their careers but even in comparison to these two at the start of their careers DGB is noticebaly smaller across the shoulders and arms.

Fletcher was of a similiar build as well but he had an inch on DGB and those extra long arms to compensate.

My understanding is that his main assests as a junior footballer was his reading of the play and contested marking but if he lacks a tank and size that will struggle to replicate at AFL level

I feel like he is probably at least a year of securing a spot in the senior squad untill he gets his endurance and strength up to at least a base AFL level.

 

[KermitJagger]

Alright, the commentary on Denver's size is archaic and kinda frustrating. Size does not necessarily determine power or strength, and it's a poor judge of his development as a defender. If Denver decided to go down the path of building muscle for muscle's sake he'd need to train his body in a way that would not help his football, and in all likelihood not even help him be better in the contest because hypertrophy specific training is less about power and more about isolation of the muscle through increasing load and time under tension. In fact, power and explosiveness work against hypertrophy to an extent because tendons store elastic energy during explosive movements in order to reduce the stress on the muscle.

Of course, mass moves mass which means the heavier Denver gets the stronger and harder to move he is, but at the same time it should be a by-product of more specific football related training and not necessarily the main focus. You can put on muscle but still lack or even lose some power and explosiveness, a la Ryan Schoenmakers

Ryan Schoenmakers

Age

33

Ht

195cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.1

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

4.6

3star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.1

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

8.2

2star

K

3.8

2star

HB

4.4

4star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.0

1star

. On the flip side you can do regular football training, and let gradual gains and muscle maturity develop more naturally and become a stronger defender that way, a la Dustin Fletcher

Dustin Fletcher

Age

48

Ht

198cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.0

4star

K

12.3

5star

HB

3.7

3star

M

4.7

4star

T

1.2

3star

MG

301.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

14.2

4star

K

11.4

4star

HB

2.8

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.4

4star

.

Tl;dr - the best thing to do for Denver would be for him to leverage his strengths which are his speed, intensity and agility, without potentially hindering them by focusing on specific hypertrophy training. Give him time to develop.

 

[rei154]

Alright, the commentary on Denver's size is archaic and kinda frustrating. Size does not necessarily determine power or strength, and it's a poor judge of his development as a defender. If Denver decided to go down the path of building muscle for muscle's sake he'd need to train his body in a way that would not help his football, and in all likelihood not even help him be better in the contest because hypertrophy specific training is less about power and more about isolation of the muscle through increasing load and time under tension. In fact, power and explosiveness work against hypertrophy to an extent because tendons store elastic energy during explosive movements in order to reduce the stress on the muscle.

Of course, mass moves mass which means the heavier Denver gets the stronger and harder to move he is, but at the same time it should be a by-product of more specific football related training and not necessarily the main focus. You can put on muscle but still lack or even lose some power and explosiveness, a la Ryan Schoenmakers. On the flip side you can do regular football training, and let gradual gains and muscle maturity develop more naturally and become a stronger defender that way, a la Dustin Fletcher.

Tl;dr - the best thing to do for Denver would be for him to leverage his strengths which are his speed, intensity and agility, without potentially hindering them by focusing on specific hypertrophy training. Give him time to develop.

Nope, I disagree, kid didn't become a fully grown man after his first off-season, ship him off for a future fourth. /s

 

[cryptor]

IF your long term KPD isn’t completely jacked by the age of 19, THEN you’ve got to ask where he is at

I can tell you where he's NOT at: Essendon circa 2012

 

[matey]

When I saw a pic of him at training the other day I first thought he is getting bigger around the thigh region. Give me bigger thighs/more core strength than bigger arms/chest any day of the week!

 

[grumbleguts]

When I saw a pic of him at training the other day I first thought he is getting bigger around the thigh region. Give me bigger thighs/more core strength than bigger arms/chest any day of the week!

Try KFC.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

From memory the inside word was that he put on about 8kg's last year.

To the naked eye that doesn't seem to get noticed, but he was never going to turn into a beefcake in 18 months.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Alright, the commentary on Denver's size is archaic and kinda frustrating. Size does not necessarily determine power or strength, and it's a poor judge of his development as a defender. If Denver decided to go down the path of building muscle for muscle's sake he'd need to train his body in a way that would not help his football, and in all likelihood not even help him be better in the contest because hypertrophy specific training is less about power and more about isolation of the muscle through increasing load and time under tension. In fact, power and explosiveness work against hypertrophy to an extent because tendons store elastic energy during explosive movements in order to reduce the stress on the muscle.

Of course, mass moves mass which means the heavier Denver gets the stronger and harder to move he is, but at the same time it should be a by-product of more specific football related training and not necessarily the main focus. You can put on muscle but still lack or even lose some power and explosiveness, a la Ryan Schoenmakers. On the flip side you can do regular football training, and let gradual gains and muscle maturity develop more naturally and become a stronger defender that way, a la Dustin Fletcher.

Tl;dr - the best thing to do for Denver would be for him to leverage his strengths which are his speed, intensity and agility, without potentially hindering them by focusing on specific hypertrophy training. Give him time to develop.

Some excellent points but I think physics would dictate that at 85kg (DGB's listed weight on the Hawthorn website) he would be fighting about 3 weight divisions out of his class if he came up against a Hawkins, Dixon, Kennedy, etc (who are all 100kg+)

Even if he played on the 2nd string forward (say Darling for the Eagles) he would be giving up about 5kgs which doesn't sound like much but it actually is.

I feel like DGB will probably top out at around the 90kg mark (similar to a Lever type) but for me he is currently too light to hold down a spot in the senior side (when combined with his lack of tank).

I feel like he needs at least one more solid preseason before he can cement a spot. He needs to build both his aerobic capacity and add more size.

That is always the downside when you draft key position players with a high pick, they take longer to come on relative to a midfielder like Ward who will be ready to go from round 1 this year.

Of course the flip side is that quality key position players are more valuable and harder to find than midfielders so its a real risk/reward trade off.

 

[Brishawk]

From memory the inside word was that he put on about 8kg's last year.

To the naked eye that doesn't seem to get noticed, but he was never going to turn into a beefcake in 18 months.

Maybe he is on the wrong supplement program

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Maybe he is on the wrong supplement program

BEEFCAKE!

 

[KermitJagger]

Some excellent points but I think physics would dictate that at 85kg (DGB's listed weight on the Hawthorn website) he would be fighting about 3 weight divisions out of his class if he came up against a Hawkins, Dixon, Kennedy, etc (who are all 100kg+)

Even if he played on the 2nd string forward (say Darling for the Eagles) he would be giving up about 5kgs which doesn't sound like much but it actually is.

I feel like DGB will probably top out at around the 90kg mark (similar to a Lever type) but for me he is currently too light to hold down a spot in the senior side (when combined with his lack of tank).

I feel like he needs at least one more solid preseason before he can cement a spot. He needs to build both his aerobic capacity and add more size.

That is always the downside when you draft key position players with a high pick, they take longer to come on relative to a midfielder like Ward who will be ready to go from round 1 this year.

Of course the flip side is that quality key position players are more valuable and harder to find than midfielders so its a real risk/reward trade off.

Mass moves mass, sure - but adding excess weight to his frame quickly just for the sake of making him heavier would be a mistake. That's the point of the post.

Especially if you're talking about him competing against full forwards. Don't care how big you are at 19 years old, you're always going to be out-bodied and out-wrestled by 30+ year old KPP.

 

[chopflop]

Alright, the commentary on Denver's size is archaic and kinda frustrating. Size does not necessarily determine power or strength, and it's a poor judge of his development as a defender. If Denver decided to go down the path of building muscle for muscle's sake he'd need to train his body in a way that would not help his football, and in all likelihood not even help him be better in the contest because hypertrophy specific training is less about power and more about isolation of the muscle through increasing load and time under tension. In fact, power and explosiveness work against hypertrophy to an extent because tendons store elastic energy during explosive movements in order to reduce the stress on the muscle.

Of course, mass moves mass which means the heavier Denver gets the stronger and harder to move he is, but at the same time it should be a by-product of more specific football related training and not necessarily the main focus. You can put on muscle but still lack or even lose some power and explosiveness, a la Ryan Schoenmakers. On the flip side you can do regular football training, and let gradual gains and muscle maturity develop more naturally and become a stronger defender that way, a la Dustin Fletcher.

Tl;dr - the best thing to do for Denver would be for him to leverage his strengths which are his speed, intensity and agility, without potentially hindering them by focusing on specific hypertrophy training. Give him time to develop.

The Tl;dr was used and appreciated

 

[Yardie]

Nope, I disagree, kid didn't become a fully grown man after his first off-season, ship him off for a future fourth. /s

Clarko era is over. Future fifth?

 

[Beandip]

Regarding Callow, I made the comment "play stops when you mark the ball".

Similarly for DGB, if you read the ball better than the opposition and can continually get to it ahead of them, it doesn't matter if you're Ronnie Coleman or not. Don't get stuck in arm wrestles if it's not your strength. Make them run, zone-off, frustrate them. I back Sicily in to beat his opponent 9/10 times, and he is barely bigger than half the flankers.

I'm not worried about DGB, I think if he plays to his strengths opposition will be just as worried about him. The last thing I'd want to do is try and turn him into a gorilla and have him break down all the time, lose his leap, his speed, and his wirey-ness.

 

[Fetnarr]

Word on the street is that Sam is going to play players in positions to maximize their strengths. Denver’s strengths are his reading of the play, his competitiveness and aggression and his athleticism (apart from the cardio bit). He’ll play higher up the ground on more mobile players where he can read the play and jump at the footy. He won’t be stuck in the square wrestling with the likes of Porkins all game.


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