Recommitted Liam Shiels

[Brunswick Trap King]

So if a player isn't Patrick Dangerfield he doesn't have value? West Coast were 'fuming' that they didn't receive a first round draft pick as FA compensation for Selwood, seems like he held a reasonable amount of value to me.

Shiels holds a huge amount of value to Hawthorn, and if GC don't think he's as valuable to them, they are more than welcome to pass on him. I can't see Hawthorn trading him anyway.

West Coast were fuming over some stupid notion that because he had won a best and fairest once, we deserved a 1st round compo. Any unbiased Eagles supporter realised that this was ludicrous as he could barely get a game that year.

I'm not sure that I brought up Dangerfield?

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Ok!
If you can some how manage to get over your arrogance, as is shown here in both your posts, you will question as to why the 4 older blokes have signed on for another year. No doubt they all have some good footy left in them, but not phasing them out one by one comes at a cost. You have a severe void in talent after these guys are gone. You may very well bring in some stars (of which Tom is not yet a star) but some one has got to go. This is not just at Hawthorn but at any club.
Now I can't go into too much detail on here but Shane Mumford had some discipline issues at the Swans that the club & team mates would no longer tolerate. Hence why we were prepared to lose him.
Mitchell is simply a case in point of needing to give up something to gain something, which is obviously something that is lost on you guys.

Buddy makes the club money! Buddy gets the big bucks.
Tommy is replaceable! We have a number similar players with more attacking upside in the seconds coming through at a fraction of the cost of what you will pay Tom to get him. Now this is where your own culture can come undone. (Based on the theory you used on us re- Buddy). At your club going forward, Tom seems to be worth 500-600K at least, while Cyril is only worth 400-500K (or so we are told).

I went to the Geelong v Hawk game last week. Clarko didn't trust Sicily or Hartung enough in a final, to give them a game.

Here lies your problem. He keeps going with the tried & proven. That is flirting with danger & you know it if you know anything about player development.
Oh wait! That hasn't happened at the Hawks for 6 years now! You just bring them in from other clubs now. Once Burgoyne, Mitchell, Hodge, Gibson are gone,
Your on field leadership will be thin.
But again, you already know that.
Hope I haven't re ruffled your feathers!

You do realise James Sicily was withdrawn due to illness - and was replaced by Burton, a first year player who had played just 3 games.
Billy Hartung (44 games) was replaced by Daniel Howe (15 games). Obviously going the tried and tested route with their withdrawals

Both have been called up as Sicily is well and Hartung returns for the run of the Dogs as opposed to the bigger bodied Cats.

Edit: Beaten

 

[MotleyLemon]

Shiels is bog ordinary, should do this deal imo. Can find blokes who do 95% of what Shiels does in the VFL. Very ordinary disposal, doesn't find a heap of the footy, tackles well. 47% DE in last week's loss.

 

[Hawkinspired]

Shiels is of huge importance to Hawthorn. I really wonder what people see when watching a game of football? Do you base your opinion on stats or do you actually watch individuals within the game.

Maybe some people are only capable of ingesting the basic and obvious things within a game because it's staggering how opinions can vary so much.

I'd be blown away if we traded Shiels.

 

[TazHawk15]

Shiels is bog ordinary, should do this deal imo. Can find blokes who do 95% of what Shiels does in the VFL. Very ordinary disposal, doesn't find a heap of the footy, tackles well. 47% DE in last week's loss.

You have no idea the role he plays for the Hawks and you can rattle off all the stats you like.

Everyone rates people differently for instance I know of some Geelong supporters who even up to 3 months ago rated Motlop ahead of Cyril, it was and still is laughable.

IMO I think Motlop is a pea hearted front runner but then again I have no idea what role he plays for Geelong, the same way you have no idea about Liam.

 

[Prudster]

West Coast were fuming over some stupid notion that because he had won a best and fairest once, we deserved a 1st round compo. Any unbiased Eagles supporter realised that this was ludicrous as he could barely get a game that year.

I'm not sure that I brought up Dangerfield?

You didn't, i did. My point is that just because a player is not a superstar of the competition, doesn't mean they don't have value.

Look at players like Redden, Wellingham, Henderson going for first rounders, or Melkshem for 25, Rosa for 31, Yarran for 19, Patfull for 21, Christensen for 21, Greenwood for 25, Hampson for 32, Vince for 23, Crameri for 26. Shiels would fit pretty comfortably in that group, and when you consider his leadership abilities, plus the premiership experience, he could provide a lot, especially for a club like GC.

Ultimately though, it doesn't matter. Hawthorn won't want to let Shiels go, and he wouldn't be part of a trade unless a team valued what he can contribute anyway.

 

[dermott]

With Mitchell & JOM supposedly arriving at your club next year & with the necessity to hold on to future draft picks because your top end will fall off rapidly in 2018, Wright, you will find, is going to have to sell Hawthorn's soul to get the job done!
It's not only a matter of salary cap. Loved players will go!
Other than Hill!

You would be better advised to worry about your own dung hill. It is obvious to all that you have been overtaken by the GWS juggernaut and will be the second best team in NSW for the foreseeable future.

 

[Rion]

Of course not, you just seem very interested in what the Hawks are doing.

Where as I could not give a s**t what the Swans are doing.

On topic the Hawks will pay slightly over for JOM and Mitchell than they want and the GCS and the Swans will settle for slightly under what they want.

It's the way it works

So GC want 2 x top 10 draft picks while the Hawks seem to want to get him for a late first rounder and a spud (Lithenland, Whitecross, O'Brien). To find a middle ground the Hawks are going have to give up a player of Shiels quality/trade their 2016 and 2017 picks.

 

[nickrebellious]

2016:
Averaging 17 disposals at 57%
Kicked 2 goals in 17 games
Elite in tackles
Slow

Not sure he's a gun, has had a few very good years and then afew down years.
Works well as a complement to better skilled and faster players
Wouldn't work at the Suns

Number one in the comp for pressure.

 

[Prudster]

So GC want 2 x top 10 draft picks while the Hawks seem to want to get him for a late first rounder and a spud (Lithenland, Whitecross, O'Brien). To find a middle ground the Hawks are going have to give up a player of Shiels quality/trade their 2016 and 2017 picks.

So GC have come out and said they want two top 10 picks, but i'd love to see where Hawthorn have said anything on this. Just because posters, who have no idea what is happening, have said something, doesn't mean it's even close to what Hawthorn are doing. The middle ground is probably going to include other clubs getting involved to help get GC the mature players they want

 

[nickrebellious]

Shiels is bog ordinary, should do this deal imo. Can find blokes who do 95% of what Shiels does in the VFL. Very ordinary disposal, doesn't find a heap of the footy, tackles well. 47% DE in last week's loss.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-08-17/the-pressure-kings-who-applies-the-heat-at-your-club

Number one in the midfield and around the ground. The reason Dangerfield wasn't as damaging as he was in round 1. Good luck finding one in the VFL, when one doesn't exist in the AFL.

 

[MotleyLemon]

You have no idea the role he plays for the Hawks and you can rattle off all the stats you like.

Everyone rates people differently for instance I know of some Geelong supporters who even up to 3 months ago rated Motlop ahead of Cyril, it was and still is laughable.

IMO I think Motlop is a pea hearted front runner but then again I have no idea what role he plays for Geelong, the same way you have no idea about Liam.

What is Shiels role then? Pease enlighten us.

I would have thought he is in the team for his contested ball winning and pressure around the footy?

I also would have thought there are countless VFL players who can do exactly that.

 

[TazHawk15]

So GC want 2 x top 10 draft picks while the Hawks seem to want to get him for a late first rounder and a spud (Lithenland, Whitecross, O'Brien). To find a middle ground the Hawks are going have to give up a player of Shiels quality/trade their 2016 and 2017 picks.

I will tell you what will happen.

The Hawks will pay slightly over what they want to and the GCS will take a fair bit under what they want.

Do you really think the GCS actually expect to get two top 10 picks for a bloke that has not played for 2 years?

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

What is Shiels role then? Pease enlighten us.

I would have thought he is in the team for his contested ball winning and pressure around the footy?

I also would have thought there are countless VFL players who can do exactly that.

His role is to be a top 3 tackler in the competition while amassing 17 disposals a game.

He is also a three time premiership player.

I'm sure you couldn't find a player in the VFL who could lay a few tackles and get 17 touches a game.

 

[PenAndPaper]

What is Shiels role then? Pease enlighten us.

I would have thought he is in the team for his contested ball winning and pressure around the footy?

I also would have thought there are countless VFL players who can do exactly that.

Read the comment above yours, no there isn't someone in the VFL or even the AFL that can do that same

 

[JG22]

Number one in the comp for pressure.

Didn't know that, fair effort.
We're do you find those stats ?

 

[Scotland]

Hawthorn could make trade week a lot easier by just paying one of their 'underrated' 'untouchable' etc. players $800k instead of injury prone players from other teams...

 

[HairyO]

"Highly regarded sports reporter in Melbourne"... That would be a very small group of people.

That group doesnt exist.

Has been identified by GC as the player to go the other way for JOM.

Shiels and their first will be the minimum.

word direct from a highly regarded sports reporter in melbourne

So they want an inside mid who happens to be the best pressure inside mid in the game as well as a top draft pick - for a player who hasnt played in 2 years.

GCS really do want him to walk to Essendon.

Shiels would be just ok at the suns, As good as Rischiteli(sp).

Looks decent in a good side, Solid b grader.

Hawks are a team of B graders. Some solid, some not.

Shiels is bog ordinary

Like our whole team. Lucky the umps love us.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

Hawthorn could make trade week a lot easier by just paying one of their 'underrated' 'untouchable' etc. players $800k instead of injury prone players from other teams...

If their entire starting 22 is untouchable, how are they going to fit O'Meara in the side?

Will he being playing reserves until Mitchell retires?

 

[RedVest4]

Shiels is probably on par with George Horlin-Smith as far as ability goes. Tackling stats don't mean a whole lot - players like him are a dime a dozen.

If GC want Shiels and Hawthorns first rounder that would be a great outcome for Hawthorn.

 

[vide0n]

Straight swap. Nobody is happy.

 

[Scotland]

So they want an inside mid who happens to be the best pressure inside mid in the game as well as a top draft pick - for a player who hasnt played in 2 years.

GCS really do want him to walk to Essendon.

O'Meara and pick 31 cost pick 4 and a first round compo pick in 2011. He won the rising star (at a canter) and was top 5 in the B&F in his first two years at AFL level.

Funny how they don't want to give him away for nothing.

 

[HairyO]

O'Meara and pick 31 cost pick 4 and a first round compo pick in 2011. He won the rising star (at a canter) and was top 5 in the B&F in his first two years at AFL level.

Funny how they don't want to give him away for nothing.

Hasnt played for 2 years. No idea if he will even get back to his 1st year form - let alone grow in to a top mid.

And for that the names Breust and Shiels - who are key members of our flag wins, plus at least 1 first round draft pick.

There are sensible trades which happen, and there are ridiculous BF trades which will never, ever happen.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

O'Meara and pick 31 cost pick 4 and a first round compo pick in 2011. He won the rising star (at a canter) and was top 5 in the B&F in his first two years at AFL level.

Funny how they don't want to give him away for nothing.

Just listen to the pathetic attempts at explaining it away.

'The best pressure player in the AFL' as opposed to 'a bloke who hasn't played in 2 years'.

This is ridiculous, if offered 800k, clearly he has more value than Shiels who wouldn't be on more than 400k?

 

[Scotland]

Hasnt played for 2 years. No idea if he will even get back to his 1st year form - let alone grow in to a top mid.

And for that the names Breust and Shiels - who are key members of our flag wins, plus at least 1 first round draft pick.

There are sensible trades which happen, and there are ridiculous BF trades which will never, ever happen.

Probably shouldn't pay him $800k, then. Let him go into the draft, pick him up with a second round pick and take a punt on a $300k two year deal.