West Coast/Hawthorn - Who will do better in 2017?

[Mr Meeseeks]

And draft picks

I thought that was implied

 

[Dirty_banchez]

It'll be interesting to see how long it takes JOM to get back into his pre-injury form.

 

[bzparkes]

West coast are topping up while the Hawks are shedding skin for the rebirth.

Huh? Didn't your team just sell the farm for O'Meara and Mitchell and we gave away picks in the 70s and 80s for Mitchell and Vardy? Who's topping up again? We've only got 2 players over 30 for crying out loud.

 

[boydee]

Only got 2 over 30 but many players under the pump for spineless performances in finals. Hill, Darling, Gaff (not hard enough in close), Le Cras, Wellingham, Butler. The list can go on. Absolutely destroyed on their home turf in Elimination final by a more desperate, classier, harder side. Hawthorn are superbly coached, Simpson not in the same league as Clarkson. Expect Hawthorn to make finals next year, West Coast to drop out.

 

[HarryZLA]

How's that?

I really doubt it.

You're either one of those people who never want to set themselves up for disappointment, or you're just one of the most negative supporters I've ever seen.

 

[Bokonon]

Only got 2 over 30 but many players under the pump for spineless performances in finals. Hill, Darling, Gaff (not hard enough in close), Le Cras, Wellingham, Butler. The list can go on. Absolutely destroyed on their home turf in Elimination final by a more desperate, classier, harder side. Hawthorn are superbly coached, Simpson not in the same league as Clarkson. Expect Hawthorn to make finals next year, West Coast to drop out.

t's your modesty and objectivity that make your post a standout

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Hawks will struggle big time.
Eagles will finish ahead.

Can you clarify "struggle big time"?

 

[mehow2g]

Two different times for both teams, I suspect hawks will be fine not winning the flag or coming top 8 perhaps, what they did this trade period was securing future leaders in the midfield, they'll trade heavy again next year and draft some young players.

With the hawks choices I don't think they are aiming for a flag next year.

While eagles will be trying to win the flag within 3 years.

 

[GeelongFTW]

Lovell played quite well at Box Hill over the course of the year where he racked up possessions but needs another preseason to build his tank. Showed a fair bit in the games he did play during the year as a mini-extractor but was always going to struggle to hold his place as an 18yr old mid.

Burton was a massive plus after missing 3 months mid-year to get the pins out of his leg. Still quite amazing to think that he got back from that, debuted and held his spot for finals. Has swagger and is as an exciting talent as we've drafted for 10 years.

Is burton the bloke you got for buddy or am I getting confused?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Is burton the bloke you got for buddy or am I getting confused?

Burton was drafted with our first round pick last year. He had a bad leg injury and hadn't played footy for 12 months.

Much like Jake Stringer in his draft year.

 

[Back Pocket Rocket]

Is burton the bloke you got for buddy or am I getting confused?

He was with the pick that we got for Jed Anderson

 

[Catsnlakers]

I see both these teams as making the finals but losing in the eliminations. Most likely will finish 7 and 8th at the end of the season. Always am careful not to write the hawks off too much because of their system and coaching... So i could be proven wrong.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I have west coast 5th, ahead of hawks in 7th.

Imo, west coast are a good chance of being top-4, whilst think the hawks will slide in a transitional year.

 

[HaroLad]

Mitchell and Priddis together is going to be an awesome show.

Dont think we've seen a team with two brownlow level extractors in the same team. Eagles fans will be wetting themselves with excitement after the first month of footy.

Dangerwood is so much better.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

You're either one of those people who never want to set themselves up for disappointment, or you're just one of the most negative supporters I've ever seen.

OK, thanks for clarifying. I wasn't sure of my identity until you came along.

 

[Vindicater]

West Coast.

The loss of S. Mitchell and J. Lewis will mean those close wins of 2016 will become close losses in 2017.

West Coast will continue to win lots of games in Perth which should see them finish above Hawthorn.

West Coast to finish 5th.

Hawthorn to finish 8th.

 

[blitzer]

Hawthorn this year felt a lot like Geelong the year won a lot of close games (with their rapidly aging experience and class). They finished really high on the ladder in the H&A only to be bundled out in straight sets. The next year they fell out of the finals - only to be renewed through a bold trading period the following year with the Dangerfield acquisition + others.

Hawthorn have now lost Mitchell + Lewis and that is a heck of a lot of experience and leadership lost. Even though they have brought in two talented players in O'Meara and Mitchell who can probably replace most of the onfield stuff (minus the leadership) - I think they are probably still weaker on field in 2017 than 2016. Especially when you consider they have been contending for years and guys like Gibson and Burgoyne are just not getting any younger. I'm predicting them to slide out of finals this year (may scrape in at 7th or 8th though).

West Coast felt like they were coming in 2015 and even their GF loss left their fans fairly undaunted because Hawks were an aging force and they were young. Plus they had 2 talented KP's to return including a B&F winner in McKenzie. Fast forward 1 year and their 2 KP's gave them precious little whilst most of their list either maintained their level or got worse.

Going into 2017 with no Naitanui is a huge blow. Mitchell is a handy pickup and there's no doubt that Priddis/Mitchell will be great at winning clearances and with the support of Shuey and Gaff - its not a bad midfield unit offensively. That said Priddis/Mitchell is going to be a doubled edged sword - defensively they are going to get cut up at times because that is literally two of the slowest players in the league that will be side by side and neither are in their prime anymore. With Lycett/Vardy I'd expect them to break-even most weeks in the ruck but that's about it - nothing like the massive advantage of Naitanui's tapwork - plus again less pace. Not to mention there's still a bit of suspicion around Lycett's knee going forward and Vardy's injury history is terrible but I'll assume they'll be OK.

I haven't touched in Eagles big issue though. That's outside run, x-factor and class. Their team in 2017 has a strong workmanlike air about it. The guys that are supposed to be giving them their flair in Hill, Jetta and Lecras - well frankly in 2017 if one of them is going good that would be above expectations. Its harsh writing this because Lecras was a gun at one point but now he's pretty average.
Eagles still have an excellent spine with their top 4 KP's being probably the best in the comp without thinking about it too much. They still have a massive home advantage. I expect them to sneak into the 8 on the back of winning most games at home and beating up on weak sides away. Expect them to finish 5-8 range (probably 7th or 8th).

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Huh? Didn't your team just sell the farm for O'Meara and Mitchell and we gave away picks in the 70s and 80s for Mitchell and Vardy? Who's topping up again? We've only got 2 players over 30 for crying out loud.

When you bring in a 34 year old who only has a year left it's a top up. You're hoping that his last season could be the missing piece.

We've brought in players for a rebuild. We want 5-10 years out of the players we've brought on and they probably won't hit their peak until around 2022. That's not a top up.

When collingwood brought in jolly and all they topped up the missing pieces of what was a promising list that had finished high but had never really taken that next step.

Omeara and mitchell won't do that for the Hawks. They're the start of a longer term plan.

As for whether we sold the farm there are 16,000,910 threads covering that question so I won't rehash it

 

[Sweet Jesus]

When you bring in a 34 year old who only has a year left it's a top up. You're hoping that his last season could be the missing piece.

Is that really accurate given what we know about the way Mitchell's decision was made?

My understanding is that Mitchell and WC had come to an arrangement about him joining as a coach after he'd finished playing. This was accelerated because of a discussion started by Hawthorn and Mitchell. It's not like WC were sniffing around Mitchell with a view to him joining as a player. It was a matter of circumstance more than a deliberate policy of 'topping up'.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

I haven't touched in Eagles big issue though. That's outside run, x-factor and class. Their team in 2017 has a strong workmanlike air about it. The guys that are supposed to be giving them their flair in Hill, Jetta and Lecras - well frankly in 2017 if one of them is going good that would be above expectations. Its harsh writing this because Lecras was a gun at one point but now he's pretty average.

There's enough outside run. Gaff and Masten are all about outside run - to a fault, frankly. Throw in Shuey, Yeo and Cripps and it's clear there's enough run there. But the midfield lacks depth, with no second tier, and even the guys who do their jobs are a bit limited. And there are, generally speaking, too many players who pick and choose when they come to play.

 

[The_Reaper]

When you bring in a 34 year old who only has a year left it's a top up. You're hoping that his last season could be the missing piece.

We've brought in players for a rebuild. We want 5-10 years out of the players we've brought on and they probably won't hit their peak until around 2022. That's not a top up.

When collingwood brought in jolly and all they topped up the missing pieces of what was a promising list that had finished high but had never really taken that next step.

Omeara and mitchell won't do that for the Hawks. They're the start of a longer term plan.

As for whether we sold the farm there are 16,000,910 threads covering that question so I won't rehash it

No. We're hoping Mitchell can teach our other mids how to not be soft campaigners.

 

[threesixpio]

Not sure I agree as Hawthorn sold most of the next two drafts for O'Meara and to a lesser extent Mitchell so there is only so much rebuiding they can possibly do in 2016 and 2017. What rebuilding they can do they have already done.

free agency

But we are also already rebuilding. It's another year in the system and another pre-season for

O'Rourke
Lovell
Burton
Sicily
Brand
Langford
Hartung

Yes we didn't get any babies this year but we got a couple last year and the year before who we are keen on.

 

[cryptor]

Probably Eagles. I don't expect Hawks to be really seriously challenging again until 2018 at the very earliest and that's only if things go to plan (ie. O'Meara can get back on track, Vickery is influential, and we make off like bandits with our recruiting strategy next year). If we finish in the top 8 next year I'd be pretty happy. Likewise Eagles fans probably be disappointed if they're not top 4.

 

[bzparkes]

Only got 2 over 30 but many players under the pump for spineless performances in finals. Hill, Darling, Gaff (not hard enough in close), Le Cras, Wellingham, Butler. The list can go on. Absolutely destroyed on their home turf in Elimination final by a more desperate, classier, harder side. Hawthorn are superbly coached, Simpson not in the same league as Clarkson. Expect Hawthorn to make finals next year, West Coast to drop out.

Blah blah, we've won 16 games both seasons. About as much chance us falling out as the Bulldogs.

 

[bzparkes]

When you bring in a 34 year old who only has a year left it's a top up. You're hoping that his last season could be the missing piece.

For pick 88? Plus it was your coach that pushed him out, not as if we were actively seeking him. Nice way to not only disprove your own point but also prove your lack of understanding. He ws always coming over as a coach. Trading away a pick we would never use is of no consequence.

As for whether we sold the farm there are 16,000,910 threads covering that question so I won't rehash it

How's your team going for KPPs? Remind me of your draft picks next year again please in a draft that is strong on KPP.