Who had best historic All Time 22?

[Luv_our_club]

HF: Blight, Carey, Schimmelbusch

Blight vs Jezza is debatable, I'd have Carey and Shimma ahead of Kernahan and the Dominator

I would have Buddy, Brereton, Buckenarra/Knights ahead of the Carlton team too.

I would have the Hawks team on par with the Kanga's team just because Shimma had midfield demands, and who would play FF for North? But that might be cheating.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

You must not have watched much football from the 70s and 80s. But maybe trust the people at Hawthorn who did. The people who put Mew at CHB in our team of the century. Not Knights.

Mew's style of football is exactly what we see today from CHB. He was ahead of his time.

I'm another who would have Knights ahead of Mew but totally agree that Mew is underrated. I think the reason Mew got the CHB spot was mostly because you'd want to honour both and Mew can only really be picked at CHB. Knights, on the other hand, could play a number of positions so looks better to put him on a flank than to put Mew on a flank.

If you had to choose only one, I think most would be choosing Knights. Mew definitely a key to the Hawks success in the 80's though.

 

[footyfan1978]

I would have Buddy, Brereton, Buckenarra/Knights ahead of the Carlton team too.

and you would lose.

Rhys-Jones annoyed to miss taking Dermy to cleaners again is left to watch SOS destroy him instead.
Buddy barely gets a kick on Brucey Doull whilst Hunter and Knights play a good duel on the other flank but as usual Hunter wins out in the end and runs off Knights with set play kick outs of Southby from full back to him.

Meanwhile The Dominator tears Sam Mitchell a new one across half forward. 7 goals on the slow upstart
Jesaulenko takes speccy after speccy over Hodge and bags 8 goals. Meanwhile Sticks is so in awe of watching the magician Jezza he takes a backward seat and only bags a lazy 6 on Mew.
Bring it on....

 

[Luv_our_club]

and you would lose.

Rhys-Jones annoyed to miss taking Dermy to cleaners again is left to watch SOS destroy him instead.
Buddy barely gets a kick on Brucey Doull whilst Hunter and Knights play a good duel on the other flank but as usual Hunter wins out in the end and runs off Knights with set play kick outs of Southby from full back to him.

Meanwhile The Dominator tears Sam Mitchell a new one across half forward. 7 goals on the slow upstart
Jesaulenko takes speccy after speccy over Hodge and bags 8 goals. Meanwhile Sticks is so in awe of watching the magician Jezza he takes a backward seat and only bags a lazy 6 on Mew.
Bring it on....

ha ha ha.

Dunstall at forward pocket, Hudson at ff, and now Mathews at the other pocket has been moved to the FF line, because we are getting on top.

Our basic centre-line of Brownlows - Dipper, Crawf, and Platten....plus one more in Mitchell, as the rotating rover, have to pick who moves to allow Ayers into the Centre bounces (shame Burgoyne couldn't make the team, he would be good too).

Two of the top 5 CHF's ever in buddy and dermott get on top (debatable, but only debatable).

The team start to play like they made 7 GF's in a row, 8 in 9 years, and a flag every 4 years.

Oh, and Kennedy gets on the blower to get some tactical advice from Clarko, Jeans and Parkin.

If at Princess Park, Malcolm Fraser is crying buckets on his steering wheel.

 

[HairyO]

I'm another who would have Knights ahead of Mew but totally agree that Mew is underrated. I think the reason Mew got the CHB spot was mostly because you'd want to honour both and Mew can only really be picked at CHB. Knights, on the other hand, could play a number of positions so looks better to put him on a flank than to put Mew on a flank.

If you had to choose only one, I think most would be choosing Knights. Mew definitely a key to the Hawks success in the 80's though.

Knights was said to be devastated that he didnt get CHB because he only was CHB and CHF.

 

[footyfan1978]

ha ha ha.

Dunstall at forward pocket, Hudson at ff, and now Mathews at the other pocket has been moved to the FF

I'd pay thousands to watch Bob Chitty and Lethal Leigh go at it in the pocket at Princes Park. Chitty probably have Piggy Dunstall and Lethal in a headlock on each arm and bang their heads together. Both taken off with concussion by quarter time.

 

[footyfan1978]

Knights was said to be devastated that he didnt get CHB because he only was CHB and CHF.

Who cares? Kmightsy was a ******* champ. Probably my favourite Hawk to watch play in my lifetime.

 

[Gavin Excell]

HF: Blight, Carey, Schimmelbusch

Blight vs Jezza is debatable, I'd have Carey and Shimma ahead of Kernahan and the Dominator

Carey yes ahead of kernahan and blight v jezza is a line ball one but couldn't have Shimma ahead of Johnston esp when we are arguing on a half forward position

 

[Pykie]

Carey yes ahead of kernahan and blight v jezza is a line ball one but couldn't have Shimma ahead of Johnston esp when we are arguing on a half forward position

Shimma is on Norths TOTC HFF, their goals per game are pretty similar. 1.18 vs 1.34 goals per game.

 

[HairyO]

Who cares? Kmightsy was a ******* champ. Probably my favourite Hawk to watch play in my lifetime.

He was brilliant, but Lethal and Dunstall for me.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Shimma is on Norths TOTC HFF, their goals per game are pretty similar. 1.18 vs 1.34 goals per game.

Interesting i remember schimma as more midfield player but there you go

Was Johnston in blues TOTC too?

 

[Cursed Cat]

B: Gary Malarkey - Matthew Scarlett - Bernie Smith
HB: Darren Milburn - Matthew Egan - Corey Enright
C: Jimmy Bartel - Joel Selwood - Joel Corey
HF: Steve Johnson - Cameron Mooney - Gary Ablett Sr
F: Paul Chapman - Doug Wade - Gary Ablett Jr
R: Graham Farmer - Garry Hocking - Bill Goggin
I/C: Brad Ottens - David Clarke - Alistair Lord - Max Rooke

Gary Malarkey a much-loved player in his time, interesting choice. Undoubtedly talented (if injury-prone) and would hold his own in most company.
I made a similar call in slipping a full back into the back pocket position but went with AFL Hall of Famer, 3xB&F winner and 2xPremiership player Jocka Todd.

I didn't include either David Clarke or Brad Ottens but both have claims, I'd differ in my choices but can't knock yours there.

Matthew Egan ahead of Reg Hickey (or even Harry Taylor) is pretty um, bold. Egan undoubtedly talented over an all-too-short career, Reg Hickey a giant of the club though.

Max Rooke should be nowhere near a Geelong best-ever 22; overall solid team but could show a bit more love for the all-conquering '51/'52 sides ..

 

[footyfan1978]

Interesting i remember schimma as more midfield player but there you go

Was Johnston in blues TOTC too?

Of course. Absolute gun.

Team selected in 2000.
HF Wayne Johnston Stephen Kernahan (C) Alex Jesaulenko

Schimma indeed was more a winger.
Johnston started off a dynamic half forward but was so ferocious at the contested ball they ended up playing him in the middle most of second half of his career. Had a back re-construction at one stage.
Probably my favourite player of all my time of watching.

 

[Vdubs]

I'll have a crack... apologies for any deserving players missed/forgotten (I'm sure many of you chaps around here will be quick to remind me)
note: liberally stolen from Hawthorn's team of the century with adjustments.

FB: Peter Knights - Kelvin Moore - Gary Ayres
HB: Shaun Burgoyne - Chris Mew - Luke Hodge (VC)
C: Robert DiPierdomenico - Sam Mitchell - Shane Crawford
HF: Dermott Brereton (464)- Lance Franklin(860) - John Platten (228)
FF: Jason Dunstall (1254)- Peter Hudson (727)- Cyril Rioli (273)
R: Don Scott - Michael Tuck (C) - Leigh Matthews
INT: Grant Birchall - Chris Langford - Graham Arthur - Jarryd Roughead

Thats probably the scariest forward line ever assembled.....
few surprise inclusions... few stiff....

I'd agree.
Our best comes close in class and potency, but down a few hundred goals numerically.
3806 v 3431
Steve Johnson (510)- Fred Flanagan (182)- Gary Ablett snr (1030)
Paul Chapman (366)- Doug Wade (1057)- Gary Ablett jnr (386)

 

[Monkey King]

HF: Blight, Carey, Schimmelbusch

Blight vs Jezza is debatable, I'd have Carey and Shimma ahead of Kernahan and the Dominator

I’d have Jezza over Blight, but yes, debatable. Carey over Kernahan not so debatable. Shimma vs Johnston is debatable - for career and consistency I’d go Shimma, but give me Johnston between 79-83 before his body started giving out. And to perform on Grand Final day, I’d take the Carlton trio every time.

So I think the poster’s comment was fair. That Carlton HF line seems to be “up with” the best of them.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Johnston/Schimma: Schimma shades him with sustained quality over a longer period.
Jezza/Blight: Can't be split.
Carey over Kernahan.

I’d have Jezza over Blight, but yes, debatable. Carey over Kernahan not so debatable. Shimma vs Johnston is debatable - for career and consistency I’d go Shimma, but give me Johnston between 79-83 before his body started giving out. And to perform on Grand Final day, I’d take the Carlton trio every time.

So I think the poster’s comment was fair. That Carlton HF line seems to be “up with” the best of them.

Isn't Johnsons reputation largely based around his output in the centre in finals?

 

[Monkey King]

Isn't Johnsons reputation largely based around his output in the centre in finals?

Maybe that’s what he’s most remembered for. After all, he is one of the greatest ever big game players. But in those early years of his career, when his body was right and he was playing close to full seasons, he played some of his best football. In one of Carlton’s strongest eras, he won two BnF’s. He was more than just a finals performer.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Maybe that’s what he’s most remembered for.

I thought so.

After all, he is one of the greatest ever big game players.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm up on all the fanboy cliches.

But in those early years of his career, when his body was right and he was playing close to full seasons, he played some of his best football. In one of Carlton’s strongest eras, he won two BnF’s. He was more than just a finals performer.

He was a good footballer, but the majority of his reputation can be put down to 4 seasons when he played as a centreman.

 

[Monkey King]

... the majority of his reputation can be put down to 4 seasons when he played as a centreman.

I guess you could say the same for some modern players too, like a Voss or Hodge. If you play a key role in your team winning 3 flags in 4 years, it’s probably going to be a major contributor to your “reputation”.

But I’m not talking about reputation. I’m talking about the player’s talent and performance. Dom was still playing bloody good football around Carlton’s next flag tilt from 86-88. It was the last burst of him playing close to full seasons before his body finally packed it in.

 

[Vic pokiesmon]

FB: Jack Graham - Jack Graham - Jack Graham
HB: Jack Graham - Jack Graham - Jack Graham
C: Jack Graham - Jack Graham - Jack Graham
HF: Jack Graham - Jack Graham - Jack Graham
FF: Jack Graham - Jack Graham - Jack Graham
R: Jack Graham - Jack Graham - Jack Graham
INT: Jack Graham - Jack Graham - Jack Graham - Jack Graham

If we could clone a player and that player covered every position would anyone beat the 1999 version of Kouta?

 

[SouthSwans]

B: Craig Bolton - Heath Grundy - John Rantall
HB: Jarrad McVeigh - Ron Clegg - Isaac Heeney
C: Peter Bedford - Paul Kelly - Luke Parker
HF: Ryan O'Keefe - Barry Hall - Lance Franklin
F: Michael O'Loughlin - Tony Lockett - Bob Pratt
Foll: Adam Goodes, Josh Kennedy, Bob Skilton
I/C: Greg Williams, Gerard Healy, Brett Kirk, Jude Bolton
Emerg: Dan Hannebery, Stuart Maxfield, Barry Round

Stiff to miss: Daryn Cresswell, Mark Bayes, Warwick Capper, Leo Barry, Ted Richards, Dennis Carroll, Dane Rampe, Wayne Schwass, Paul Williams, Tadhg Kennelly, Lewis Roberts-Thomson, Shane Mumford, Jason Ball, Darren Jolly, Nick Smith, Kieren Jack, Fred Goldsmith, David Murphy, Tony Morwood, Laurie Nash, John Heriot, Bill Faul, Vic Belcher, Bill Williams, Stevie Wright, Harry Clarke, Mark Tandy, Callum Mills.

 

[Luv_our_club]

If we could clone a player and that player covered every position would anyone beat the 1999 version of Kouta?

You could say that. Kouta had the ability to play most positions on the ground.And was seen as a phenomenon in the comp in 99. Crawford won the brownlow and AFLPA MVP that year.

You could say Dustin Martin on the grounds he has won the most individual awards in a single season.

You could say 22 Cyril Rioli's would beat 22 Wayne Carey's or Locketts, if you thought 22 of Rioli had enough of a tactical, speed, ground ball advantage.

Would 22 Kouta's beat 22 Diesels or 22 Judds?

From GWS, i would take 22 Kelly's. From Hawthorn, 22 Leigh Mathews.

It is a can of worms. I am embarrassed to say that I have thought about it once too often and wished it could be put to the test.

 

[Snake_Baker]

B: Craig Bolton - Heath Grundy - John Rantall
HB: Jarrad McVeigh - Ron Clegg - Isaac Heeney
C: Peter Bedford - Paul Kelly - Luke Parker
HF: Ryan O'Keefe - Barry Hall - Lance Franklin
F: Michael O'Loughlin - Tony Lockett - Bob Pratt
Foll: Adam Goodes, Josh Kennedy, Bob Skilton
I/C: Greg Williams, Gerard Healy, Brett Kirk, Jude Bolton
Emerg: Dan Hannebery, Stuart Maxfield, Barry Round

Stiff to miss: Daryn Cresswell, Mark Bayes, Warwick Capper, Leo Barry, Ted Richards, Dennis Carroll, Dane Rampe, Wayne Schwass, Paul Williams, Tadhg Kennelly, Lewis Roberts-Thomson, Shane Mumford, Jason Ball, Darren Jolly, Nick Smith, Kieren Jack, Fred Goldsmith, David Murphy, Tony Morwood, Laurie Nash, John Heriot, Bill Faul, Vic Belcher, Bill Williams, Stevie Wright, Harry Clarke, Mark Tandy, Callum Mills.

Laurie Nash is a certified walk up start in that team.

 

[footyfan1978]

Laurie Nash is a certified walk up start in that team.

Apparently he would tell us that all too if he was still alive.

 

[footyfan1978]

If we could clone a player and that player covered every position would anyone beat the 1999 version of Kouta?

Yes, this is an easy one. Alex Jesaulenko. Played general forward, key forward, centre and then backline.
To top it all of he then played as captain-coach and last coach to do that and win a premiership. In an interview I remember he said he wanted to learn to play in all parts of the ground. Ruck position probably only thing he did not do I guess, unless someone saw him do that. With the massive athletic ability I suspect he could have out jumped many a ruckman if he wanted to in first half of his career.
Kouta was really a winger and later a ruck rover that played a bit up forward and back but most times just pinch hitting. I remember he was tried at centre half back in some of his early years but never really settled down there. Not quite in same league as Jezza.