(Opinion) Is Darrel Baldock the worst Australian football hall of fame "legend" of all time?

[35Daicos]

Nash is in the Tas. Team Of The Century, & is a Legend in the Tas. Hall Of Fame!

We have no record of Nash playing any adult AF in Melb. before the family moved to Tas. -& your Trove searches to find such experiences have not been fruitful. And you did provide Trove references of the Nash brothers playing in an adult team at Parattah in Tas. in 1929, where their father had his hotel.

No Melb. Clubs had any interest in recruiting L.Nash before his move to Tas. It is very reasonable for Tas., & others, to claim he was devel. in Tas. There is no necessity for State Of Origin criteria.

I'm pretty sure we aren't going to agree on this one!!!

Ivor Warne-Smith is in the Tasmanian Team Of The Century and is a Legend in it's Hall Of Fame despite not being a "genuine" Tasmanian as well, and the likes of Andy Bennett, Roy Cazaly, John Devine, Stuart Spencer and most likely a few others (who are not genuine Tas. products) are in the HoF as well.

Tim Evans (a real Tasmanian!) is in the Tas. Hall Of Fame and the SA HoF as well. Of course he belongs in both! Laurie Nash, and people from other states who made a real contribution to the game in Tasmania, or at least spent a bit of time there and made a name for themselves elsewhere, belong in the state's HoF too.

As I've already quite reasonably suggested, Victoria can take credit for developing Nash. He was born and bred there, came from a football family and had probably been playing the game for a decade or more as a junior when he moved to the southern state. He was about 19 when he moved, hardly comparable to e.g. Nick Riewoldt moving from Tas. to Qld. when around 9 or so. It's just not particularly important that he hadn't played at an adult level in his home state (there may well be a decent reason for that as suggested on his Wikipedia page), and while my Trove searching skills are of the highest order, the fact that nothing has shown up that says senior Vic. clubs were chasing him doesn't mean it didn't happen!!

I'm happy to keep mentioning a players' State Of Origin in a case like this, because it's the key point of the whole discussion! Where a player spent his (football) formative years is where they belong. In the case of Laurie Nash that of course is Victoria. Very soon after he started playing at a reasonable level in Tasmania he was deemed good enough to play representative football; his one season at Parattah and then playing under the great Roy Cazaly for just a few games can hardly have transformed him from "undeveloped" into someone capable of starring against the country's best players in a national carnival, unless he had a pretty decent idea of how to play the game in the first place!!

 

[gavaniacono]

Gee its hard comparing any of those blokes with Hudson, diff positions and completely diff approach to the game. I still cant figure our how hudson kicked that many goals with his effeminate hips and waving arms as he ran. Freak.

 

[guruisatiger]

You obviously never saw Baldock play!

Tas. in Baldock's era was competitive against Vic, WA, & SA, & famously defeated Vic. in 1960 (without Baldock, who was injured). When Tas. def. WA in 1970, Baldock was one of their best. He was arguably Tas. greatest ever player in the modern era. Due to incompetence & lack of an AFL team/proper pathways, Tas. AF is now a Disaster.
Many historians would probably argue only Laurie Nash (a freak, who liked to "show-off" & kick torpedoes on his non-preferred left foot -the only player ever to do this; & regularly did sideways hangers -also the only player ever to do these regularly) was the best Tas.player; & probably the greatest of all time from anywhere!

St K supporters who saw Baldock play are almost unanimous in declaring he was the best St K player they ever saw -inc. the modern era up to 2017; & St K had multiple Brownlow winners in Baldock's era (Howell, Smith, & Stewart-2). Baldock was Brownlow Runner-Up twice. He was B&F from 1962-3, & 65. Club captain 1963-68, & top goal kicker 1962-65.
His ball handling ability was, arguably, the greatest (with Nash) we have ever seen. At St K training, he liked sometimes to do laps, bouncing the ball with his NP left hand only -& catching it only with his left hand, rarely losing it.

The Encyclopedia Of League Footballers (which covers every VFL/AFL player since 1897) states re Baldock"...he quickly established a reputation as a freakish champion with the seeming ability to have the ball on a string. His ground skills were phenomenal and his courage legendary. Although short, 177cm, he played at CHF (similar to Nash, 175cm, who kicked 18 goals in 3 qtrs against SA in a State game -my words) and controlled the St K forward line".
St K supporters would marvel at how the short Baldock would regularly beat convincingly much taller defenders.

Your knowledge on the history of our great game is outstanding
The great LJ NASH,was a test cricketer as well,, wow
Wish i could go back in time and watch him and pratt play in the same team

 

[speedpeck23]

Cazaly was an average footballer who was obviously a bit of a "cult hero". Not a legend. Easily the worst legend in the list.

Not sure how Jesaulenko is one too btw. Maybe if you take a good hanger you get in?

You must simply be trying to create an argument. I grew up hating Carlton....his ability was one of the main reasons....it wasn't fair that they had so many great players with Jesaulenko the absolute stand out. He would have to be equal to any player ever. Once you reach legendary status officially or unofficially it's not possible to be surpassed. We had Hudson and Matthews in those days...feeling pretty good about that, then Jezza would do something miraculous in the Carlton game which would floor you. A spectacular mark, an amazing goal....I remember gettiing into the car after the footy one day to get all the scores from the other matches...the commentators were going ballistic about Jezza's latest exploit....Carl v Ess 1972... Jezza kicks 6 goals in 11 minutes from half forward to steal the game. Went home to watch the replay....Michael Williamson called him " The Worm "...he just seemed to come up out of the ground...baulk a few and put it thru...not once,not twice....etc..etc but 6 amazing times. I guess you had to live thru those times to really appreciate it.

 

[Blue Heart]

Welcome to our Stupid New World.
All stats.
No brains.

And if it didn't happen on my watch or memory ... it never really happened !!!

 

[Brenton Davy]

I'd LOVE to be the worst of the greatest.

OP could have posted any of thousands of more relevant threads. Instead...

 

[Catters 070911]

An early contender for Worst Thread of the Year.

I, for one, can't wait for the pre-season to end.

So, I'm not going to claim the title this year?

Damn you, OP, for taking an award I thought for certain was mine.

 

[Righteo]

So, I'm not going to claim the title this year?

Damn you, OP, for taking an award I thought for certain was mine.

You would need to actually create a thread this year to be eligible, I would have thought.

 

[HairyO]

Gee its hard comparing any of those blokes with Hudson, diff positions and completely diff approach to the game. I still cant figure our how hudson kicked that many goals with his effeminate hips and waving arms as he ran. Freak.

He'd spend half of each game concussed too.

 

[demondavey]

He wasnt a bum but he is overrated

Just because he didn’t play 250 games and kick 600 goals doesn’t mean he was overrated. Hart was a pure CHF in every sense of the word. He was a pretty special player. Also a 4 time premiership player.

 

[Bigeasy]

Just because he didn’t play 250 games and kick 600 goals doesn’t mean he was overrated. Hart was a pure CHF in every sense of the word. He was a pretty special player. Also a 4 time premiership player.

So was Martin Pike.

I think Hart is overrated as a legend, I think he is a fantastic footballer and the good guy tag gets him the status.

 

[Heisenberg_]

So was Martin Pike.

I think Hart is overrated as a legend, I think he is a fantastic footballer and the good guy tag gets him the status.

He doesn't have a good guy status at all, more the other way round if anything.

 

[HairyO]

So was Martin Pike.

I think Hart is overrated as a legend, I think he is a fantastic footballer and the good guy tag gets him the status.

I love Pike. Always dependable. Deserved each of his flags. Far more less deserving Premiership players than him.

 

[Starburns_]

HOF Legend is a pretty exclusive club, even were the premise of the OP true, there's no shame in being the 'worst'.

Being the worst 200 game player like Anthony Rocca on the other hand...

It's actually a pretty underwhelming record.

I really don't see the point of the HoF or 'Legend' status though. It's just an arbitrary wankfest like the AA team. Pointless.

Legend status clearly exists so we can still put the likes of Matthews on a HOF pedestal without it being devalued by the inclusion of Micky O'Loughlin or Mark Bickley.

 

[Seadog]

"Of all time" in the title is unnecessary

 

[leaper]

It is obvious that people on here have never seen wet weather football played. Darrel Baldock was the most skilful player I have ever seen his ability with a wet ball was amazing. Bugger climate change.

 

[HairyO]

HOF Legend is a pretty exclusive club, even were the premise of the OP true, there's no shame in being the 'worst'.

Being the worst 200 game player like Anthony Rocca on the other hand...



Legend status clearly exists so we can still put the likes of Matthews on a HOF pedestal without it being devalued by the inclusion of Micky O'Loughlin or Mark Bickley.

This.

Rugby League have their Immortals. It started out as a list made by a magazine but now basically gets run by the NRL. They had 4 players (I think) originally, and only add a new player about once a decade and only when pretty much everyone associated with the sport agrees.

The AFL should have done something similar - with maybe only 1 or 2 players per decade considered, and then only adding 1 or 2 players per decade from now on. But that wouldnt have made for a good annual TV event.

"And the Legend for 2018 is... well, no-one. We didnt think anyone deserved to be added this year. Thanks for watching !"

 

[mopsy]

Gee its hard comparing any of those blokes with Hudson, diff positions and completely diff approach to the game. I still cant figure our how hudson kicked that many goals with his effeminate hips and waving arms as he ran. Freak.

absolute freak but unfashionable.Those hips were a weapon.
If not for serious knee issues he would have kicked over 1000 goals at afl level even with the knee he came back in 77? and kicked 110.

He only played 129 games and kicked 727 goals at 5.64 a game the best average of any player to play the game. Only coleman has also averaged more than 5 goals a game at 5.48.
Hudson's first season was 67 where he kicked 57 goals at 3.35 a game. then in 68, 69, 70, and 71 he kicked 541 goals at well over 6 a game each of those four seasons. Then came rnd one 1972 he had 8 goals to half time and did his knee. Back in those days a knee meant retirement in most cases. He managed 5 games over the next three seasons and then returned to tassie where he got his knee right and proceeded to tear the competition apart kicking unheard of bags of goals. His knee was still giving him trouble but in 1977 he went back to Hawthorn for one last hurrah and managed to kick 110 goals for the season but his leg was shot.
Hudsons career away from the Afl is even more remarkable, as one who had the privlidge to watch him on numerous occasions he imo is the best ff to play the game.
Tassie has produced some fantastic key forward players especially since the 60's i wont comment before then, a state of less than 500k.

Hart chf of the century, Hudson, Roach, Lynch, Richardson, J riewoldt and his cousin Nick if place of birth counts for anything. all bar Jack Riewoldt have kicked more than 600 goals and Jr is closing in on the milestone.

Imo Tassie certainly punches way above its weight.

 

[gavaniacono]

absolute freak but unfashionable.Those hips were a weapon.
If not for serious knee issues he would have kicked over 1000 goals at afl level even with the knee he came back in 77? and kicked 110.

He only played 129 games and kicked 727 goals at 5.64 a game the best average of any player to play the game. Only coleman has also averaged more than 5 goals a game at 5.48.
Hudson's first season was 67 where he kicked 57 goals at 3.35 a game. then in 68, 69, 70, and 71 he kicked 541 goals at well over 6 a game each of those four seasons. Then came rnd one 1972 he had 8 goals to half time and did his knee. Back in those days a knee meant retirement in most cases. He managed 5 games over the next three seasons and then returned to tassie where he got his knee right and proceeded to tear the competition apart kicking unheard of bags of goals. His knee was still giving him trouble but in 1977 he went back to Hawthorn for one last hurrah and managed to kick 110 goals for the season but his leg was shot.
Hudsons career away from the Afl is even more remarkable, as one who had the privlidge to watch him on numerous occasions he imo is the best ff to play the game.
Tassie has produced some fantastic key forward players especially since the 60's i wont comment before then, a state of less than 500k.

Hart chf of the century, Hudson, Roach, Lynch, Richardson, J riewoldt and his cousin Nick if place of birth counts for anything. all bar Jack Riewoldt have kicked more than 600 goals and Jr is closing in on the milestone.

Imo Tassie certainly punches way above its weight.

Phenomenal stats espesh that 4 year golden period. And what about the lazy 1977? I recall vividly and fondly his helicopter game. He was a superstar though he doesnt have the high light reel others have.

 

[Rosscoe_666]

That is nice and all. Would you like to name another hall of fame legend that Baldock was better than?

Of the HOF Legends I've seen play - except Robran, since I only saw him in interstate matches - Baldock was better than both Cable and Hart, and probably the equal of Bartlett and Jesaulenko.
It was a pretty good effort captaining and playing CHF in a premiership team at 5 feet 9" or so.

 

[Farm Boy]

It is obvious that people on here have never seen wet weather football played. Darrel Baldock was the most skilful player I have ever seen his ability with a wet ball was amazing. Bugger climate change.

He could actually be the GOAT, yet here we are with an OP calling him the worst hall of fame legend of all time.

 

[Rosscoe_666]

Vic half forward line of the day versus WA at Subi
Baldock, Hart, Jezza

Whos better, enjoy !!!

That is: Taswegian, Taswegian, Canberran.

 

[Kwality]

Of the HOF Legends I've seen play - except Robran, since I only saw him in interstate matches - Baldock was better than both Cable and Hart, and probably the equal of Bartlett and Jesaulenko.
It was a pretty good effort captaining and playing CHF in a premiership team at 5 feet 9" or so.

Any attempt to rank the Legends is pointless IMHO, subjective.;

 

[Heisenberg_]

Any attempt to rank the Legends is pointless IMHO, subjective.;

As well as the evolution of game styles, professionalism etc.
Dumb to compare players from different eras using stats for this very reason.

 

[sr36]

Alan Jeans wouldn't say who he believed was the best player he ever coached, but he says Doc was the equal of any player he coached. Considering several of the blokes he coached are already in there, Doc belongs.