Unofficial Preview Sack Hinkley

[TeeKray]

It's not 'year 6'. It's year two. As soon as we went in with Bonner, Houston, Howard, Byrne-Jones, Amon, Powell-Pepper and Marshall in an elimination final against West Coast in 2017, when Ken said 'this is the side we needed to play' when everyone was screaming about Jackson Trengove not being picked, that was when I realised that the list we had was broken and why it was broken (because of Gold Coast and GWS raping the draft with their concessions when we were at our lowest in 2011/2012).

This side has only played how we've wanted to play once, maybe twice (the game against Melbourne) for an entire game. In 2017, that side did it a couple of times, but this isn't the same side from 2017.

I see this year akin to when Ken first took over in 2013 - a list that is good enough to make finals, and could do something miraculous, but it all depends on how much experience they gain over the course of the year. We aren't playing guys like Frampton and Ladhams because we want to, but because we need to.

The only reason why Ken got an extension was because he was told back in 2013 that the list he was taking over had a premiership in it. And the results in 2015 proved that it didn't, because the club went through the same sort of BS that Melbourne is going through this year when a team thinks that it will just happen the year after.

That's why premiership sides are generally (unless they are incredibly talented) built on the back of players with 100+ games experience. The guys who will be consistent in their performance week in and week out and don't think they are at the level, but know they are.

I can speak with absolute clarity when I say that anything worth pursuing takes time. Doubly so when you have to rely on other people to deliver it. The one thing I never agreed with this year was appointing Jonas a captain because I don't think he should always be in our best 22 anymore, and should be more of a horses for courses selection when the opponent as a key forward. But that was a player choice thing.

I'll say it again - as long as we go into the bye 6-5, with our injury list...that's a tick from me. Replicate that and win one more game in the second half of the year, and we play finals.

But even Ken is pragmatic that he probably won't be around long enough to coach this team to a flag. And if he goes, that's okay. What's not okay is thinking that we need to do 'something different', because no one plays the way that the people on this board want us to play anymore. Super coach Clarkson went into the game against us with a structure that was eerily similar to ours, minus the tall forward in Frampton that did nothing but including a general forward in Gunston who kicked six goals. And how did he get those goals? By Hawthorn players identifying that Jonas was playing on him and kicking long and deep over the top of our zone...exactly what I wanted our defenders to do.

But no one mentions that.

Excuses, excuses.

Funny how a team like Geelong don't need high draft picks and don't need everyone to play 100 games together before they actually start playing good football. They just get it done year in year out, regardless of personnel.

It's called coaching and culture.

 

[FallingLiefs]

We saw it against, oh I don’t know, the reigning premiers in Perth?

The problem is that these players aren’t experienced enough and confident enough to play like that against a side that will punish every mistake. Every time they **** up, they go back into their shell.

People are always looking for someone to blame these days because we have a fast food culture that demands instant gratification. You’re looking at a side that had the following:

No experience

1st game - Ladhams
3rd game - Frampton
8th game - Farrell
9th game - Butters
10th game - Duursma
10th game - Rozee
11th game - Lienert

Limited experience

38th game - Howard
48th game - Powell-Pepper
48th game - Amon
49th game - Houston

Experience but inconsistent

70th game - Clurey
74th game - Byrne-Jones
84th game - S. Gray

So five of our defenders haven’t even played 100 games yet.

Add to that Broadbent, who like everyone in history took two games to get up to speed, and you start to realise why Robbie Gray and Jonas looked off the pace in their first game back after a couple of weeks. They’ll be better next week once they find the speed of the game again.

And what do we have this week? Another injury to an experienced player in Rockliff. So expect him to go through the same two week period to get up to speed when he gets back. Ditto Hartlett, Dixon, Wines, Ebert and Burton. Add Watts to that if he manages to get back.

We are going through now what we need to. There’s no cheat code to gain experience. All the coaching staff can do is keep encouraging them to take the game on.

The difference between the two teams was a 3 time premiership player in Jack Gunston. That’s the benefit of experience.

It's not 'year 6'. It's year two. As soon as we went in with Bonner, Houston, Howard, Byrne-Jones, Amon, Powell-Pepper and Marshall in an elimination final against West Coast in 2017, when Ken said 'this is the side we needed to play' when everyone was screaming about Jackson Trengove not being picked, that was when I realised that the list we had was broken and why it was broken (because of Gold Coast and GWS raping the draft with their concessions when we were at our lowest in 2011/2012).

This side has only played how we've wanted to play once, maybe twice (the game against Melbourne) for an entire game. In 2017, that side did it a couple of times, but this isn't the same side from 2017.

I see this year akin to when Ken first took over in 2013 - a list that is good enough to make finals, and could do something miraculous, but it all depends on how much experience they gain over the course of the year. We aren't playing guys like Frampton and Ladhams because we want to, but because we need to.

The only reason why Ken got an extension was because he was told back in 2013 that the list he was taking over had a premiership in it. And the results in 2015 proved that it didn't, because the club went through the same sort of BS that Melbourne is going through this year when a team thinks that it will just happen the year after.

That's why premiership sides are generally (unless they are incredibly talented) built on the back of players with 100+ games experience. The guys who will be consistent in their performance week in and week out and don't think they are at the level, but know they are.

I can speak with absolute clarity when I say that anything worth pursuing takes time. Doubly so when you have to rely on other people to deliver it. The one thing I never agreed with this year was appointing Jonas a captain because I don't think he should always be in our best 22 anymore, and should be more of a horses for courses selection when the opponent as a key forward. But that was a player choice thing.

I'll say it again - as long as we go into the bye 6-5, with our injury list...that's a tick from me. Replicate that and win one more game in the second half of the year, and we play finals.

But even Ken is pragmatic that he probably won't be around long enough to coach this team to a flag. And if he goes, that's okay. What's not okay is thinking that we need to do 'something different', because no one plays the way that the people on this board want us to play anymore. Super coach Clarkson went into the game against us with a structure that was eerily similar to ours, minus the tall forward in Frampton that did nothing but including a general forward in Gunston who kicked six goals. And how did he get those goals? By Hawthorn players identifying that Jonas was playing on him and kicking long and deep over the top of our zone...exactly what I wanted our defenders to do.

But no one mentions that.

gee you love to re-write history. i love how you save it up until all hope is lost and then go, yeah i knew this back in 2017 but never really said it aloud.

it's like Wingard being the bane of all evil in the squad and as soon as it was obvious he was out you wrote a story where our entire failures were on his shoulders. then 6 months later shock horror we haven't changed at all as a club.

Pretty sure the well coached richmond had a similar profile when they made us look like a left over burrito.

Geelong had a massive contingent of sub 50 game players last night while they sit atop the ladder. no shock to see you default to a "growing club" and "injuries to key players"

 

[FallingLiefs]

and for the record, 80% of this board said this list/coach panel was broken much earlier than the 2017 EF. the changes were if anything, too little too late.

just like the changing of the guard Broadbent/Gray/Ryder/Hinkley will inevitably be.

 

[NEGAN]

It's not 'year 6'. It's year two. As soon as we went in with Bonner, Houston, Howard, Byrne-Jones, Amon, Powell-Pepper and Marshall in an elimination final against West Coast in 2017, when Ken said 'this is the side we needed to play' when everyone was screaming about Jackson Trengove not being picked, that was when I realised that the list we had was broken and why it was broken (because of Gold Coast and GWS raping the draft with their concessions when we were at our lowest in 2011/2012).

This side has only played how we've wanted to play once, maybe twice (the game against Melbourne) for an entire game. In 2017, that side did it a couple of times, but this isn't the same side from 2017.

I see this year akin to when Ken first took over in 2013 - a list that is good enough to make finals, and could do something miraculous, but it all depends on how much experience they gain over the course of the year. We aren't playing guys like Frampton and Ladhams because we want to, but because we need to.

The only reason why Ken got an extension was because he was told back in 2013 that the list he was taking over had a premiership in it. And the results in 2015 proved that it didn't, because the club went through the same sort of BS that Melbourne is going through this year when a team thinks that it will just happen the year after.

That's why premiership sides are generally (unless they are incredibly talented) built on the back of players with 100+ games experience. The guys who will be consistent in their performance week in and week out and don't think they are at the level, but know they are.

I can speak with absolute clarity when I say that anything worth pursuing takes time. Doubly so when you have to rely on other people to deliver it. The one thing I never agreed with this year was appointing Jonas a captain because I don't think he should always be in our best 22 anymore, and should be more of a horses for courses selection when the opponent as a key forward. But that was a player choice thing.

I'll say it again - as long as we go into the bye 6-5, with our injury list...that's a tick from me. Replicate that and win one more game in the second half of the year, and we play finals.

But even Ken is pragmatic that he probably won't be around long enough to coach this team to a flag. And if he goes, that's okay. What's not okay is thinking that we need to do 'something different', because no one plays the way that the people on this board want us to play anymore. Super coach Clarkson went into the game against us with a structure that was eerily similar to ours, minus the tall forward in Frampton that did nothing but including a general forward in Gunston who kicked six goals. And how did he get those goals? By Hawthorn players identifying that Jonas was playing on him and kicking long and deep over the top of our zone...exactly what I wanted our defenders to do.

But no one mentions that.

Admit it...you just make s**t up on the fly...

 

[JUSTWORK]

Admit it...you just make **** up on the fly...

Just attempting to justify it all

 

[FallingLiefs]

Admit it...you just make **** up on the fly...

Nah, that’s not true. It has to fit a narrative.

One of: the only thing that gets us beat is singled out individual incompetent players, those same players not trying hard enough and as a flow on, team selection. Where players like Bonner and Byrne Jones (despite being BOG yesterday) can single handedly lose us a game from apparent commanding positions. This also doesn’t however apply to any other club in the AFL that has 1 way players. Coaches and list management however, don’t make errors and if they have despite never calling them out at the time, they’ve corrected them, and should be knighted.

 

[Janus]

Excuses, excuses.

Funny how a team like Geelong don't need high draft picks and don't need everyone to play 100 games together before they actually start playing good football. They just get it done year in year out, regardless of personnel.

It's called coaching and culture.

Experienced

Gary Ablett - 331 games
Joel Selwood - 280 games
Harry Taylor - 247 games
Tom Hawkins - 242 games
Mitch Duncan - 190 games
Zach Tuohy - 172 games
Luke Dahlhaus - 164 games
Cameron Guthrie - 147 games
Mark Blicavs - 143 games
Rhys Stanley - 124 games
Gary Rohan - 113 games

Experienced, but prone to mistakes

Jake Kolodjashnij - 80 games
Thomas Stewart - 53 games

Inexperienced

Brandon Parfitt - 43 games
Tim Kelly - 33 games
James Parsons - 32 games
Jack Henry - 31 games
Mark O'Connor - 17 games
Gryan Myers - 10 games
Tom Atkins - 9 games
Jordan Clark - 9 games
Darcy Fort - 2 games

Nah, it's called having a relatively healthy list.

 

[GremioPower]

By Hawthorn players identifying that Jonas was playing on him and kicking long and deep over the top of our zone...exactly what I wanted our defenders to do.

But no one mentions that.

Fair enough. Still, why don't we do it. You point the same issue since the game against Carlton.
We are always handballing when to kick and kicking when to handball; kicking short whent to kick long and kicking long when to kick short; holding the ball when should be agressive and taking unacessary risks when should be holding the ball.
Obviously, players are responsible. But who is asking them to do what they cannot deliver?
There are so many questions...

 

[Janus]

Fair enough. Still, why don't we do it. You point the same issue since the game against Carlton.
We are always handballing when to kick and kicking when to handball; kicking short whent to kick long and kicking long when to kick short; holding the ball when should be agressive and taking unacessary risks when should be holding the ball.
Obviously, players are responsible. But who is asking them to do what they cannot deliver?
There are so many questions...

Why don't we do it?

Because it requires faith. Faith in your abilities and faith in your teammates abilities. Which comes back to experience.

 

[Port 2004]

Excuses, excuses.

Funny how a team like Geelong don't need high draft picks and don't need everyone to play 100 games together before they actually start playing good football. They just get it done year in year out, regardless of personnel.

It's called coaching and culture.

Yep. No more excuses. Excuses are for losers and the PAFC I have know for most of my life hasn’t adopted an excuses loser mentality. Time for a clean out of coach and president and a few of the older players who never ever ******* change.

 

[Kingfish73]

Someone mentioned Ken telling Matt White that he didn't want to go to a grand final until we got there together or something along those lines. Ken was actually full of lines like that in his first couple of years. Nowadays, I honestly can't even remember the last time Ken spoke of the possibility or even aspiration to win a premiership.

I don't know when Ken's attitude changed because he wasn't always like this. There was Phil Walsh and there was his friend that had the heart attack. Somewhere along the line, he lost his killer instinct and drive to be the best. And this has clearly translated to on field performance.

His time is up.

Yeah remember....I hate losing. We never give up. Change the toilet roll.

It's all just farts now...

 

[GremioPower]

Why don't we do it?

Because it requires faith. Faith in your abilities and faith in your teammates abilities. Which comes back to experience.

Wouldn't faith come BEFORE experience?

 

[FallingLiefs]

Experienced, but prone to mistakes

Jake Kolodjashnij - 80 games
Thomas Stewart - 53 games

Inexperienced

Brandon Parfitt - 43 games
Tim Kelly - 33 games
James Parsons - 32 games
Jack Henry - 31 games
Mark O'Connor - 17 games
Gryan Myers - 10 games
Tom Atkins - 9 games
Jordan Clark - 9 games
Darcy Fort - 2 games

////////////////////

No experience

1st game - Ladhams
3rd game - Frampton
8th game - Farrell
9th game - Butters
10th game - Duursma
10th game - Rozee
11th game - Lienert

Limited experience

38th game - Howard
48th game - Powell-Pepper
48th game - Amon
49th game - Houston

Experience but inconsistent

70th game - Clurey
74th game - Byrne-Jones
84th game - S. Gray


hows this PR machine.


sub 20 game club: 5v7
sub 50 game club: 4v3
sub 100 game club: 3v2

one of these clubs is on it's knees and hoping to creep to the bye and by all accounts is acceptable to win 4 of it's last 9. including against 2nd last and 3rd last coming into this week.

the other is healthy list management and game clear atop the ladder.

the breakdown of years on the list would be even more intriguing.

 

[dirty2]

Why don't we do it?

Because it requires faith. Faith in your abilities and faith in your teammates abilities. Which comes back to experience.

"faith in the coaches plan"?

 

[Magus]

I have plenty of faith in this young group. I have faith in Garner, in Frampton, in Marshall, in DBJ and yep, faith in Bonner.

I don't have faith in the simpleton in charge of developing them or creating any kind of system worth persisting with for more than a year.

 

[MitchIn3D]

It's not 'year 6'. It's year two.

Your propaganda is pretty tedious Janus.

Since 2013 (7 seasons) we have had two seasons we could consider good years, both at the very start of his tenure. As soon as he "put his mark" on the squad, we turned to ******* s**t. How can you defend a guy who has failed 5 years in a row?

 

[240volt]

I get this strange feeling not a lot of posters like Ken.

 

[jack_black16]

Your propaganda is pretty tedious Janus.

Since 2013 (7 seasons) we have had two seasons we could consider good years, both at the very start of his tenure. As soon as he "put his mark" on the squad, we turned to ******* ****. How can you defend a guy who has failed 5 years in a row?

Well when you believe Port players deliberately handball to their teammates feet to make them look bad, anything is possible.

 

[Janey]

I think back to that first speech he made at the B&F (I think it was) and the presser where he made the comment about being the right man standing, not the last man standing. He took that as a challenge to prove that he could successfully coach the team. The undertaking to ‘never give up’ – well we pretty much lived that in the first 18 months and got some great wins as a result. But all that’s gone. The things that Ken used to take as a challenge he now seems to use as excuses. The attitude of the players that saw us rise to the challenge of beating Collingwood against the odds in the finals, that saw us come back from 40+ points down against West Coast, relentlessly hang in for three quarters against Freo and then get them in the last – that’s gone too. I remember one of our first few losses, against the Bulldogs in Alice Springs I think it was, we lost because of a lack of effort and Ken was noticeably angry afterwards in the presser – that’s gone.

All this says to me that he just doesn’t have the passion and determination to win at all costs anymore. For the sake of the club we really can’t afford to keep him on next season.

 

[GremioPower]

Well when you believe Port players deliberately handball to their teammates feet to make them look bad, anything is possible.

Let's accept that they do. You are the coach. You cannot accept that. What would you do?

 

[FallingLiefs]

So lets break it up, games experience? how about years on the list.


Players with under 100 games

First Season
Butters Duursma Rozee
Atkins Clark Fort

Second
Farrell
Kelly Miers

Third
Lienert, SPP, Ladhams
O'Connor, Stewart, Parfitt, Henry

Fourth
Houston
Parsons

Fifth
Frampton, Howard
nil.

Sixth
Amon, DBJ, SGray
Kolodjashnij

Seventh
Clurey
nil.

again. one of these is flag faves, the other WE ARE ACCEPTING A 4-5 RECORD OFF OUR LAST 9 GOING INTO THE BYE

all of whom have played under Hinkley for their entire career, with up to 7 seasons of SANFL football under the same program you would hope they can football by now.



1 3v3
2 1v2
3 3v4
4 1v1
5 2v0
6 3v1
7 1v0




excuses.

 

[Us against the rest]

I think back to that first speech he made at the B&F (I think it was) and the presser where he made the comment about being the right man standing, not the last man standing. He took that as a challenge to prove that he could successfully coach the team. The undertaking to ‘never give up’ – well we pretty much lived that in the first 18 months and got some great wins as a result. But all that’s gone. The things that Ken used to take as a challenge he now seems to use as excuses. The attitude of the players that saw us rise to the challenge of beating Collingwood against the odds in the finals, that saw us come back from 40+ points down against West Coast, relentlessly hang in for three quarters against Freo and then get them in the last – that’s gone too. I remember one of our first few losses, against the Bulldogs in Alice Springs I think it was, we lost because of a lack of effort and Ken was noticeably angry afterwards in the presser – that’s gone.

All this says to me that he just doesn’t have the passion and determination to win at all costs anymore. For the sake of the club we really can’t afford to keep him on next season.

Agreed, good post.

 

[Us against the rest]

Let's accept that they do. You are the coach. You cannot accept that. What would you do?

Remember he told Pittard, I will put up with all the other stuff as long as you defend.
That to me said it all, you don't have to be a complete footballer as long as you do what I want. Bad message.

 

[finbarr]

Your propaganda is pretty tedious Janus.

Since 2013 (7 seasons) we have had two seasons we could consider good years, both at the very start of his tenure. As soon as he "put his mark" on the squad, we turned to ******* ****. How can you defend a guy who has failed 5 years in a row?

Don't worry. once ken has been sacked Janus will turn on him.

 

[TeeKray]

Personnel/list management is a rubbish discussion in the AFL. Even the best teams only have 8-10 really good players. And most teams are playing young and inexperienced teams.

The difference between us and the good clubs are:

Coaching - succesful implementation of strong and reliable structures and systems.

Culture - relentless high standards of professionalism, belief in ability to win all the time no matter what obstacles are confronted along the way.

Geelong, Hawthorn, WCE, Sydney, etc, are in a different league to us when it comes to these things. That's the difference, not personnel.