Preview Changes for Elimination Final vs Bombers (UTAS Sun 3.20pm)

[Mofra]

Yeah but how hard. That’s the real question here Mofra…

There’s zero evidence that the coach has valued the position. He’s focused on strengthening other areas and now it is really hurting. He has to own this, and I don’t buy the cop out we supposively chased Martin for a few years. There were others available as well, but he has this delusion the supposive impacts on defensive structures from a (lumbering) ruckman is not offset by ruck contest improvement. This has proven completely false and quite frankly farcical considering how long it’s been going on.

Very. Big contract and talk were well advanced.

And he's not the only ruck we've chased. We had a first rounder on the table for Lobbe! Had Lobbe not been in Vietnam and unable to undergo a medical he would be a Bulldogs player. This "undervaluing ruck" talk is nonsense. Any time we've had two half-decent rucks available we've played them both.

 

[Doggies_13]

In the hawks game we played the wrong side of the ground all day, attacked on the defensive side with the wind, refused to use the middle of the ground or were denied it. That’s why we struggled to score I hope we learned a lot from that game, hopefully beveridge gave Clarko a call to remind him how to use that ground properly

 

[Anja_Nees]

I don’t think anyone doubts that we were the authors of our ridiculous drop out of the top four, but it’s also fair to say a lot of things had to (and did) go wrong for it to happen as well.

That includes Keath and Bruce going down then they did, Wright pulling one out of the box and Brisbane sneaking past us on percentage at the death.

If we lose, we will absolutely cop it and it will be deserved, but we were a top four team most of the year. We really should account for the eighth placed team and trouble any top four side we come up against.

For what it’s worth, I know why Bevo is persisting. We’ve made do with English and occasionally Sweet losing the hitouts for most of the season and got the job done. If the midfield just did what it did for 20 rounds we would beat most sides.

 

[Deadly Darcy]

Yeah but how hard. That’s the real question here Mofra…

There’s zero evidence that the coach has valued the position. He’s focused on strengthening other areas and now it is really hurting. He has to own this, and I don’t buy the cop out we supposively chased Martin for a few years. There were others available as well, but he has this delusion the supposive impacts on defensive structures from a (lumbering) ruckman is not offset by ruck contest improvement. This has proven completely false and quite frankly farcical considering how long it’s been going on.

Your argument doesn’t stand up to the facts. In 2020 we had pick 1 in JUH and used the bulk of our collateral to pay for him.
In 2019 we were all crying out for a small forward and got one in Cody Weightman
In 2018 we were fortunate enough (or s**t enough) to get one of the “big 7” in Bailey Smith who has been excellent for us
And really the 3rd man up rule was only changed in 2017 changing the value teams placed on rucks from zero to solid gold. Bevo’s exploitation of the old rule really helped us to a flag.
Given the importance of a dominant ruck I don’t see how we had the collateral to get one. It’s also only really become clear English can’t become that guy this year, maybe late last year, and with JUH and Treloar there cheaply, Sammy P had little room to waggle to get a gun ruck in.

Im pissed at the MC for not trying something using JUH this week but the idea they don’t know or care we have a ruck problem is just crap IMO. It’s not like SuperCoach - they can only work limited moves each trade period. Gunna be hard again this year with Darcy going early.

 

[Doggy]

Very. Big contract and talk were well advanced.

And he's not the only ruck we've chased. We had a first rounder on the table for Lobbe! Had Lobbe not been in Vietnam and unable to undergo a medical he would be a Bulldogs player. This "undervaluing ruck" talk is nonsense. Any time we've had two half-decent rucks available we've played them both.

Better get out the cheque book this year

 

[Anja_Nees]

Very. Big contract and talk were well advanced.

And he's not the only ruck we've chased. We had a first rounder on the table for Lobbe! Had Lobbe not been in Vietnam and unable to undergo a medical he would be a Bulldogs player. This "undervaluing ruck" talk is nonsense. Any time we've had two half-decent rucks available we've played them both.

Absolutely. I think people base their view he doesn’t care on the fact he tries midfielders in the ruck, but I do think (admittedly easy to say in hindsight) there were other options we should have pursued.

I think Bev’s preference for a certain type of ruckman is a factor. Any of Trengove, Roughead or Campbell would do better than what we’ve had most of this season. For whatever reason he’s moved them on and hasn’t replaced them with a viable alternative.

Either they think Sweet has it and just needs another preseason or you’d hope we go hard in the trade period.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Sdriously ....



IF ...
I'm a strong and long-time advocate on the need to fully celebrate those who make the Therabody AFL All-Australian team and not publicly lament those who miss out ...

THEN ...
I'm nevertheless reserving a touch of heartache for Jakey Stringer. Can't believe he wasn't a 2021 All-Australian. Could not have done one thing more to warrant a berth. Hope he has another blinder on Sunday against the team which turfed him out when he was at a personal and professional low. Absolutely love his comeback story.

Some other screwball commentator last week said Jake has become the best player in the league since about round 14.

 

[Doggy]

Absolutely. I think people base their view he doesn’t care on the fact he tries midfielders in the ruck, but I do think (admittedly easy to say in hindsight) there were other options we should have pursued.

I think Bev’s preference for a certain type of ruckman is a factor. Any of Trengove, Roughead or Campbell would do better than what we’ve had most of this season. For whatever reason he’s moved them on and hasn’t replaced them with a viable alternative.

Either they think Sweet has it and just needs another preseason or you’d hope we go hard in the trade period.

Even if the coach rates Sweet (highly unlikely since he should have been playing since Martin has been out), we still need more ruckmen

 

[bobs head soup]

I dont think any forwards from Essendon will get off the leash however, the issue is how are we going to kick goals ourselves?

We could only put up 37pts against Hawthorn at UTAS in Round 22 who were barely even trying since their season was over and have a worse backline than Essendon.

The team we fielded that day is pretty much the same team going up against Essendon on Sunday.

To say that Hawthorn were barely trying in R22 is a bit much. Since Clarko was out the door, they had been consistently trying their butts off and performing to a high level

Last half of the year they beat Dogs, Sydney, GWS, Brisbane and others and drew with Melbourne and Richmond.

 

[Anja_Nees]

Even if the coach rates Sweet (highly unlikely since he should have been playing since Martin has been out), we still need more ruckmen

That’s true. From what I can gather it’s because they don’t think Sweet is fit enough. Maybe that’s because he has a poor work ethic, or maybe he just needs a good preseason. If he’s delisted we’ll know.

If they have faith in Sweet maybe we can get away with someone who needs time, particularly if they think Martin can recover and play a part next year.

If not, we have to immediately target a mature ruck who can slot in round one.

 

[Doggy]

That’s true. From what I can gather it’s because they don’t think Sweet is fit enough. Maybe that’s because he has a poor work ethic, or maybe he just needs a good preseason. If he’s delisted we’ll know.

If they have faith in Sweet maybe we can get away with someone who needs time, particularly if they think Martin can recover and play a part next year.

If not, we have to immediately target a mature ruck who can slot in round one.

Darcy / English as ruck forwards will be good.

We need another full time ruck though

 

[ScottyDogg]

Absolutely. I think people base their view he doesn’t care on the fact he tries midfielders in the ruck, but I do think (admittedly easy to say in hindsight) there were other options we should have pursued.

I think Bev’s preference for a certain type of ruckman is a factor. Any of Trengove, Roughead or Campbell would do better than what we’ve had most of this season. For whatever reason he’s moved them on and hasn’t replaced them with a viable alternative.

Either they think Sweet has it and just needs another preseason or you’d hope we go hard in the trade period.

Sweet better be delisted is all I can say. If he’s on the list and can play in 4 wins out of 5 games played (including one against Port away) and not get picked when we have no other rucks available than he shouldn’t be wasting a spot.

 

[hutchy31]

Sweet better be delisted is all I can say. If he’s on the list and can play in 4 wins out of 5 games played (including one against Port away) and not get picked when we have no other rucks available than he shouldn’t be wasting a spot.

Would have to agree. If in a must win final we’re playing Young as ruck - who’s only played a small number of games in the ones and only two in the ruck - then any other ruck on our list shouldn’t be there next year because they’re evidently assessed as worse than that.

It’s actually ludicrous that Young is being played in the ruck. I keep shaking my head every time I think about it. Madness that he’s the option they’ve landed on.

 

[BEaston]

Sweet better be delisted is all I can say. If he’s on the list and can play in 4 wins out of 5 games played (including one against Port away) and not get picked when we have no other rucks available than he shouldn’t be wasting a spot.

This type of false equivalency is so reductive. There are probably hundreds of factors/variables that go into winning or losing a game.

"We're unbeaten with Ben Cavarra in the team this year, he should play every week."

 

[Dog 36]

This type of false equivalency is so reductive. There are probably hundreds of factors/variables that go into winning or losing a game.

"We're unbeaten with Ben Cavarra in the team this year, he should play every week."

And how long do you not select him, in a team with no ruck for one bad performance vs Gawn?

I would have played Sweet last year (season 2020) much more than we did to get a better look at him.

How is Young going? out of contract year end, came to the club as a young forward, was then placed in the backline and has been training there and playing there and developing there only to find himself in the Ruck!

I'm confused could you imagine the players, they would not be sure if they should try win a ruck contest.

 

[Cousin Ben]

I dont think any forwards from Essendon will get off the leash however, the issue is how are we going to kick goals ourselves?

We could only put up 37pts against Hawthorn at UTAS in Round 22 who were barely even trying since their season was over and have a worse backline than Essendon.

The team we fielded that day is pretty much the same team going up against Essendon on Sunday.

True. Our best form is high-scoring, not wars of attrition, so where are our goals going to come from? Naughton's have dried up, and to be honest he has never really been a prolific goal scorer. Bruce not there, mids & smalls only seem to chip in with one here or there. I can't see how we're going to get the 12-15 majors at least that we're going to need to top Essendon.

 

[Claudonious]

I don’t think anyone doubts that we were the authors of our ridiculous drop out of the top four, but it’s also fair to say a lot of things had to (and did) go wrong for it to happen as well.

That includes Keath and Bruce going down then they did, Wright pulling one out of the box and Brisbane sneaking past us on percentage at the death.

If we lose, we will absolutely cop it and it will be deserved, but we were a top four team most of the year. We really should account for the eighth placed team and trouble any top four side we come up against.

For what it’s worth, I know why Bevo is persisting. We’ve made do with English and occasionally Sweet losing the hitouts for most of the season and got the job done. If the midfield just did what it did for 20 rounds we would beat most sides.

Brisbane had 2 massive wins against poor opposition - 11 goals and 14 goals, then won by 6 in the last round - all kicked in the ( bizarre 40 minute) last qtr v west coast. Thats 31 goals difference - then add our nett 7 goals over 3 weeks. 38 goal turnaround....If Pies or Freo at least show up, we would not be in the position we are in.To then miss by a point, after a shocking free kick and a second shot at goal for a push just added salt to the wound.

If they are not angry and ready to explode - then they don't deserve to win on Sunday.

 

[ScottyDogg]

This type of false equivalency is so reductive. There are probably hundreds of factors/variables that go into winning or losing a game.

"We're unbeaten with Ben Cavarra in the team this year, he should play every week."

First of all, don’t be an idiot. Cavarra came on the ground for five minutes.

Second of all don’t be a w***er with academic language that a lot of people don’t understand.

If you wanna come on here and have a discussion please join in, but these sorts of comments don’t add anything.

The obvious point I was making is that he has proven to be able to hold down the position through a genuine body of work (not a one off). He held it down through the many hundreds of factors/variables that he would have experienced through those 5 games.

 

[BEaston]

First of all, don’t be an idiot. Cavarra came on the ground for five minutes.

Second of all don’t be a w***er with academic language that a lot of people don’t understand.

If you wanna come on here and have a discussion please join in, but these sorts of comments don’t add anything.

The obvious point I was making is that he has proven to be able to hold down the position through a genuine body of work (not a one off). He held it down through the many hundreds of factors/variables that he would have experienced through those 5 games.

lol what the hell hahaha

 

[immortalmike]

Our biggest problem is we can't score.
Does anyone think we have the fire-power to win a shoot out?

 

[bobs head soup]

Our biggest problem is we can't score.
Does anyone think we have the fire-power to win a shoot out?

Our overall game has been shite over the last 3 weeks, but over the whole season we are the #2 team for scoring.

Anyways, it's never gonna be a shootout on a bleak day in Launceston.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Our biggest problem is we can't score.
Does anyone think we have the fire-power to win a shoot out?

Yep this is a worry.

To me, given injuries/lack of fitness to Bruce, Martin etc, we have to do one of two things. We either stack the forward line with marking options and ruthless ground-level guys, and play an attacking brand that goes mostly through Naughton, or we admit we can't fire offensively and switch to a more defensive approach - this means dropping guys like Smith to actually commit to it properly.

It appears we're doing neither. I'm not sure how we score enough or defend enough to find form.

 

[BEaston]

And how long do you not select him, in a team with no ruck for one bad performance vs Gawn?

I would have played Sweet last year (season 2020) much more than we did to get a better look at him.

How is Young going? out of contract year end, came to the club as a young forward, was then placed in the backline and has been training there and playing there and developing there only to find himself in the Ruck!

I'm confused could you imagine the players, they would not be sure if they should try win a ruck contest.

Too much being placed on the names of positions. Just because Sweet is designated as a "ruck" and Young isn't, does not mean the outcome will be better. The match committee will go with what they think gets the best outcome in the end, rather than fitting to positional titles.

On exposed form I think Young has shown more playing that position at AFL level. It's not that Sweet is being punished for one game against Gawn. He got dropped for that game, similarly to how Young got dropped after the Swans game after his poor showing there. It's that since the Melbourne game, Sweet has performed poorly at VFL level and with the MC being able to see them day in, day out at training they have a better grasp of their current form and fitness levels.

 

[stefoid]

So what about that weird thing we did early last week where we kicked out to space in front of unexpected players like Keath? It was really prevalent for about the first quarter, and then went away.

I do worry a bit about this kind of 'cheese' so close to finals. Bev has a track record of cheesy tactics, but usually they are trialled at the start of the year. Remember a few years ago when tapping the ball in front of you was all the rage for about the first 2 games of the year, and then we never saw it again?

Finals are played on ingrained instinct, we cant have our players second guessing whether they should be employing the latest cheese tactic handed down from the coaches

To that end, we are going to win by smashing the opposition around the midfield and bottling the ball up in our forward line and grind ahead of them on the scoreboard when they cant match our intensity around the ball for the full four quarters

this is the way

 

[Dog 36]

Too much being placed on the names of positions. Just because Sweet is designated as a "ruck" and Young isn't, does not mean the outcome will be better. The match committee will go with what they think gets the best outcome in the end, rather than fitting to positional titles.

On exposed form I think Young has shown more playing that position at AFL level. It's not that Sweet is being punished for one game against Gawn. He got dropped for that game, similarly to how Young got dropped after the Swans game after his poor showing there. It's that since the Melbourne game, Sweet has performed poorly at VFL level and with the MC being able to see them day in, day out at training they have a better grasp of their current form and fitness levels.

Like my maths teacher told me " Messy on paper (team selection in this case) messy in the head"

The outcome may not be better having Sweet in the ruck instead of Young BUT Sweet is more likely to knock someone over and that's what we lack.