List Mgmt. 2019 Trade Thread - Part V

[gringo2011]

The other enormous issue that has to be resolved is that the club was having to give huge money to very average players just to meet the minimum salary cap. It seems that Acres and Bruce were pushed out as much to manage a salary dump and the other teams were not interested in picking up our GOP players who were over paid. Trading in quality players and paying them overs breaks this pattern of having to pay ordinary players too much as we go back into the draft each year. Good list management by the club finally.

We are still paying the same money just to different players. We will still overpay until we are successful and then will have to reign in contracts. The system means they get paid for being great or s**t. Most players at Richmond would be on less than the bulk of our guys of an equivalent age. Scary isn't it. Hill probably on more than Dusty or Prestia. Acres probably similar to Grimes.

 

[SaintWWodonga]

anyone got a link to the interview that Gags did on SEN this arvo?

 

[austinnn]

I think you're addicted to turn over. You're wanting guys who came in last year out the door already. I actually don't think our issues are with soldiers, it's a lack of anything resembling an elite talent. Stuv was our best player for the best part of his career with us and no-one since he was drafted even tested him. We found a mass of GOP under Trout/Richo but nothing close to elite. Finally we found Marshall and Battle and Clark are looking promising as well.

To me we won't make some magical leap until we get elite or at least A grade talent in. Not just one or two but several. North and Carlton have more elite talent but worse bottom ends than us. We seem to be culling the depth without finding the top end to push one out he bottom still. It's a dangerous strategy because you can end up back at the bottom again still without the elite talent.

I'm not into turning everyone over, like I said, there's plenty there that I want to keep. I do wonder though how many players we can have who aren't really pushing into that top echelon. For example what do we do with Austin and Phillips, who have good attributes? How do they get the opportunity this year to show enough for us to extend their contracts? How much time do we give Clavarino and Young?

I agree about Stuv. I know the loss is too raw still for most here, but I didn't think he was an amazing player, he was certainly very good, but for a club to have him as the best player by some distance for most of his career shows us just how uncompetitive we were. He and Ross should have been our Aussie and Andrew Thompson, not our Harvey and Burke.

I agree about the rest too. I think the destination club stuff is wishful thinking because we've been just the opposite for so long, but I definitely think we're getting back there. 5 players nominated us and that's great, but only one of those was a player that any other club in the land would be banging down the door for. I'm glad to have all of them and think they'll be good for us. I don't think our trade emphasis strategy is dangerous as long as it is tailored to each draft and trade market. You know that whether it's in the draft or at other clubs, we still keep our eyes open for real elite talent, and it's clear that our strategy would be different every year, with this one key goal in mind.

I'm happy enough for now to watch King, Bytel, Clark and Coff develop under Ratten and co and see how far they can take us. This draft doesn't have much elite midfield talent outside the top 2 so I'm happy to use our first rounder for a readymade elite midfielder and Brown replacement instead. Our other two elite draftees Billings and Gresham are just hitting their straps now and still have plenty of football in front of them and the opportunity to make this their team, like Stuv and Ross did before them.

 

[Premium]

I've voiced my displeasure on twitter and needless to say I'm getting a lot of feedback on it but they did an absolute sabotage job on Stuv. Every chance Wells got he brought the issues into it and blew them up as much as he could and the media played along. As soon as the deal is done, suddenly Stuv is Reinvigorated and wells can't keep the smile off his face.

imo, they absolutely took advantage of the situation.

as for the trades on a whole, excellent job. Hill Howard, Jones and Butler, all upgrades that allow the side to play a different way, esp Howard and Jones who can cover multiple positions.

next years trade period might be as equally interesting given our lack of picks again.

No doubt they will be chasing free agents - Brad Crouch , Whitfield , Zac Williams

 

[Parkysp]

The 2014 draft haul was a complete bust. When you take this into consideration plus we have completely wiped out the 2019 draft then this clearly shows that we HAVE NOT HIT THE DRAFT HARD OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS.

I know people will call me a troll but I assure you I'm not. I am just disgusted with what the Saints have done/are doing.

mate I'm nearing 50 as a tip going on your posting you're only going to enjoy about 5 days of footy in your life. Up to you but I'd reconsider the Saints because there will be many bad days going by our history.

Me, I enjoyed us coming from behind to beat the Hawks early this year 'cause I am totally over their arrogant supporters. A low bar I know but footy is there to be enjoyed.

We had a good week not withstanding that we lost a few of our favourites. Look forward to an injury free pre/season and get to Marvel and yell our heads off. I know I will...

 

[George]

 

[Nutsngum]

What else are they going to do? Hide him? They have memberships just like us.

I get that, but they're acting like he is the number one recruit when what they actually did was stall, downplay his ability and feign disinterest knowing we had little option due to wanting to actually take care of him. I find it disrespectful but its not like I needed that much more reason to dislike Geelong lol.

 

[Hayes4PM]

What in the * is going on on the right there? Is that Tim Watson? What the * is he doing????

 

[austinnn]

Blues ponder free agency swoop for Saints wingman

Carlton is leading the Victorian suitors for St Kilda midfielder Jack Newnes should he choose to become a delisted free agent

www.afl.com.au

prefect for them I reckon

 

[gringo2011]

How I’ve been looking at it, you have to ask one question. Who of this 5 would get a game for Richmond. Answer is 4 out of the 5 and Howard would be the one that misses out. If you look at it like that it’s an undeniable hugely successful trade period.

How could Dan Butler get a game with Richmond after he was not playing in their best 22 and pretty much delisted? I'd say Howard wouldn't replace Grimes and Rance in their best line ups, Paddy Ryder would probably be able to play in front of Soldo or Nank, Hill would be able to get a game and would probably slot pretty nicely in. Jones not likely. So two out of five to me.

 

[gringo2011]

Why upgrade a contract when he has a year to go - he wanted a upgrade and the club was wanting to wait - good on the club

Except now we don't have him and didn't get his true value. Should have held him to his contract, that would have been good on the club for standing up for it's self.

 

[gringo2011]

Blues ponder free agency swoop for Saints wingman

Carlton is leading the Victorian suitors for St Kilda midfielder Jack Newnes should he choose to become a delisted free agent

www.afl.com.au

prefect for them I reckon

I'd rather the depth, we get nothing for another best 22 player. If Jones pushes him to lift to hold a spot then that's good for us.

 

[Snailspace13]

I might be in the minority but we as a club have lost the plot. A team that does what we have done this trade period must mean that we believe we are in the premiership window. We are topping up for a flag tilt. We must have finished top 4 last year. Silly me, I thought we finished near the bottom.

IMHFO, we will be better next year. HeckS, we may even play finals. But we will not win a flag or even get anywhere near top 4 with this stupid strategy.

End of rant.

I suggest you listen to the SEN Interview with Lethlean that was posted a few pages back and then go to the Saints website and listen to the Gallagher interview and listen to the questions that other Saints Fans ask him,and you then should understand the Strategy they have employed.
Also, Howard and Butler will be 24 during next season.
Jones will be 25 and Hill will be 26 until close to Seasons end.
So all players bar Ryder can provide many years of service to the Saints.
Unlike you i am very confident in our Future with this Strategy being used.
If this Draft is not flash with Super Talent as many experts have suggested after the 1st few Picks,then the Strategy we have used,becomes a very good one.

 

[austinnn]

I wonder if we'll see the rumoured Hawthorn free pick up of White after he is delisted? Maybe Carlton will go back in for Rice? I'd like to see Brown retire and take up a coaching possie here, I wonder how much he wants to keep playing.

 

[George]

What in the fu** is going on on the right there? Is that Tim Watson? What the fu** is he doing????





View attachment 766862

No it's Bert from Mary Poppins

 

[austinnn]

I'd rather the depth, we get nothing for another best 22 player. If Jones pushes him to lift to hold a spot then that's good for us.

I don't think he's best 22 and if he is, then the 22 ain't much chop. I did say I wasn't addicted to turning over, but I think we've got to move on. What can Newnes offer us that we haven't already seen?

 

[gringo2011]

If you want a second opinion ask a Port Adelaide supporter.

Some people would win a million and complain they should have won more .

Fair dinkum

Example : Keath vs Howard .

One has stress fractures in the leg won’t be training on it for most of preseason , 4 years older .
can only play as a defender .

Vs

200cm elite speed footballer , magnificent mark , can play key defensive post , can play forward if
required , can play in the ruck if required , kicks the ball extremely well for tall player.
Leader ...was asked to Capt his team at 23 years of age.

Consensus amongst many good experienced football media rate Hill elite probably the best wing
player to play for Stkilda in last 20years.

Zak Jones ...hard as Cats head , fast relentless, loves the contest , back home surrounded by family
following the team he supported as kid now living the dream playing there opportunity to play
midfield..back here with Hannebery & Membrey.

Against picks 12 & 18 you’ve gotta be certified.

You have to be certified to leave out all of the details to fit your narrative, There is also what we lost to get those players. It wasn't just 12 and 18. It was Bruce, Stuv, pick 6, a couple of future picks, Acres and nearly all access to this years draft after spending a lot of this years picks last year. The players we got look pretty good but if you tell half the story and state it as fact you look like Donald Trump.

Hill is the best player we have traded in for years and the rest are all speculative but highly promising players. You don't need to gloss it up, it is what it is. The club has chosen a path and we will all accept it whether we agree with it or not. We don't need a fairytale version of it to sell it to ourselves.

 

[Ekomaira]

I wonder if we'll see the rumoured Hawthorn free pick up of White after he is delisted? Maybe Carlton will go back in for Rice? I'd like to see Brown retire and take up a coaching possie here, I wonder how much he wants to keep playing.

I'll be spewin for him if he gets delisted. him and his family were so rapt to be picked up by the Saints

 

[gringo2011]

I don't think he's best 22 and if he is, then the 22 ain't much chop. I did say I wasn't addicted to turning over, but I think we've got to move on. What can Newnes offer us that we haven't already seen?

Depth. Clubs like the Dogs and Geelong have depth and to move forward you need a competitive standard in the VFL to push players to compete for spots. Pick 90 in a s**t draft isn't going to be much chop and we get nothing for him. He either gets back to what he was or delisted in 12 months. Hill could do a knee before Christmas and we don't have cover. Do we just write off another year until injuries are overcome?

 

[gringo2011]

What I love is that he gets poleaxed but still somehow slings Ziebell to the ground in a one handed tackle while his brain is jiggling on its stem. Reminds me of the scene in the movie Necessary Roughness where the Aussie is knocked unconscious but keeps hold of the ball.

The funny thing is I was there when Glen Archer lined up a baby Lenny and he was stung but got back upend kept going too. When I saw that game it was the first thing I thought of.

 

[austinnn]

I'll be spewin for him if he gets delisted. him and his family were so rapt to be picked up by the Saints

yep, I don't really want to lose him either. But he obviously hasn't shown the club enough to get a new contract and is one of 5 OOC players on a list that needs to get rid of 3. Newnes, Brown, Rice, White, Carlisle(?) I'd keep him and Jake and enourage Brown to retire, and delist Newnes and Rice but that's just me.

 

[Patty_vanda]

How could Dan Butler get a game with Richmond after he was not playing in their best 22 and pretty much delisted? I'd say Howard wouldn't replace Grimes and Rance in their best line ups, Paddy Ryder would probably be able to play in front of Soldo or Nank, Hill would be able to get a game and would probably slot pretty nicely in. Jones not likely. So two out of five to me.

Jones would be a walk up start over Brandon Ellis & many more

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Not saying your a idiot but we were 2 wins from 7th position with Carlisle , Hannabery , Webster , Geary , Austin , King , Bytel , Steven , Pierce , Longer , Roberton , McCartin out for the best part of the season.

That is 12 players out of the squad

bring in a fit Carlisle , Roberton , Hannebery , Webster , King , Bytel , Geary with Brad Hill , Zac Jones , Howard , Ryder and Butler anyone can see we will be winning more tan 9 games.

Plus with the development of Gresham , Marshall , Battle , Hunter Clark , Coffield , Paton , Wilkie , Parker , Long with a easy draw we could easily be top 4.

With the people we have in place now off field and on field the atmosphere is tremendous , you may feel the club has lost the plot but that is your opinion but
I 'm looking to finals next year and pushing every team.

We now have a young talented squad which we have not had for many years.

Last year everyone was saying we failed to bring in a ruckman - well what happened - Marshall came out of no where and is now being touted as a superstar.

The same can be said about Battle , recruited as a forward - we had no one to replace Carlisle - low and behold we threw Battle in there and now everyone doesn't want him to go back into the forward line.

Roberton breaks down - what are we going to do - well Wilkie steps up.

Billings even started to show why he was a top draft pick , even Hunter Clark had us dreaming of how good the kid can be.

However this year with a more attacking Fullback in Howard a fit Carlisle , Roberton with a heart starter , Hannebery , Hill , Billings and Jones through the middle with 3 marking targets in Membery , King , Battle it's looking far more exciting than a lot of other clubs.

Things are looking mighty fine.

Just look at the other teams forward lines and compare Membery , Battle , King with Ryder and Marshall spending some time down there - and people were saying what are we going to do now without Bruce FFS
we will be scoring more than 80pts a game - trust me.

Geelong - Jenkins - Hawkins
North - Brown
Sydney - Franklin - Papley
Bombers - Daniher - McKearan - Stringer
Crows - Jenkins - Lynch
Suns - Ben King
Dogs - Bruce - Naughton
GWS - Cameron - Finlayson
Fremantle - Tabener - Hogan
WCE - Kennedy - Darling - Ryan
Tigers - Lynch - Riewoldt
Magpies - De Goey , big Yank
Demons - McDonald , Wiederman

Totally wrong. He is an idiot


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gringo2011]

I'm not into turning everyone over, like I said, there's plenty there that I want to keep. I do wonder though how many players we can have who aren't really pushing into that top echelon. For example what do we do with Austin and Phillips, who have good attributes? How do they get the opportunity this year to show enough for us to extend their contracts? How much time do we give Clavarino and Young?

I agree about Stuv. I know the loss is too raw still for most here, but I didn't think he was an amazing player, he was certainly very good, but for a club to have him as the best player by some distance for most of his career shows us just how uncompetitive we were. He and Ross should have been our Aussie and Andrew Thompson, not our Harvey and Burke.

I agree about the rest too. I think the destination club stuff is wishful thinking because we've been just the opposite for so long, but I definitely think we're getting back there. 5 players nominated us and that's great, but only one of those was a player that any other club in the land would be banging down the door for. I'm glad to have all of them and think they'll be good for us. I don't think our trade emphasis strategy is dangerous as long as it is tailored to each draft and trade market. You know that whether it's in the draft or at other clubs, we still keep our eyes open for real elite talent, and it's clear that our strategy would be different every year, with this one key goal in mind.

I'm happy enough for now to watch King, Bytel, Clark and Coff develop under Ratten and co and see how far they can take us. This draft doesn't have much elite midfield talent outside the top 2 so I'm happy to use our first rounder for a readymade elite midfielder and Brown replacement instead. Our other two elite draftees Billings and Gresham are just hitting their straps now and still have plenty of football in front of them and the opportunity to make this their team, like Stuv and Ross did before them.

All clubs have okay players and okay players can look like good players in a good side. I think we have above average stocks of good no great.Ideally you very good push a layer down into reserve so you have 30 really solid contributors and another 10 or more developing under them. Once you hit that sweet spot like Richmond the cream keeps rising where young guys can walk in with out pressure and be the 22nd best player and look incredible. The okay guys like Newness are pushed to reserves and get back to their best or get moved out. It becomes like a well oiled machine.

 

[gringo2011]

Jones would be a walk up start over Brandon Ellis & many more

Not sure about that Ellis was pretty solid, he's not far off but he'd be a in a similar range and you have to push him out. He's certainly not a massive upgrade, possibly a move across. I would rate them pretty similarly, Jones better burst and pace but worse disposal.