Australia v New Zealand 1st Test at Perth December 12-16

[Crankitup]

Seedsfan A quick question for you. Before this month do you think he's always been a trash Test bowler? I used to think he was trash in 2011 and 2012 and then became a convert. What about you?

 

[Crankitup]

Because is he competing with Lyon for a position?

That is the total amount of wickets all the squad bowlers took across the Hick game Derbyshire game, Worcestershire game and the 5 test matches.

I think you missed my edit. Maybe you can edit your reply.

 

[Seedsfan]

Seedsfan A quick question for you. Before this month do you think he's always been a trash Test bowler? I used to think he was trash in 2011 and 2012 and then became a convert. What about you?

Starc is rocks or diamonds, he is erratic on his day on a pitch that suits he can be devastating but he can also be pedestrian.

 

[Crankitup]

Starc is rocks or diamonds, he is erratic on his day on a pitch that suits he can be devastating but he can also be pedestrian.

What about 2016?

 

[Seedsfan]

I think you missed my edit. Maybe you can edit your reply.

So those stats come from the tour stats on ESPN with the Hick Haddin game added to all the totals as that game was not included in that game. That’s will be the reason if the totals look different. I couldn’t be bothered presenting the stats for the fast bowlers who failed to make the cut for the squad

 

[Seedsfan]

What about 2016?

He had a good year not denying he has had good years.

 

[Crankitup]

So those stats come from the tour stats on ESPN with the Hick Haddin game added to all the totals as that game was not included in that game. That’s will be the reason if the totals look different. I couldn’t be bothered presenting the stats for the fast bowlers who failed to make the cut for the squad

Yes if we ignore that stupid irrelevant tour game where he also had knee issues the figures look very different. In fact if we just look at the Tests alone, despite the fact that the only Test he was picked for was played on a road and despite the fact he bowled well in the first innings picking up three cruicial wickets only to then be frustratingly underbowled in the second innings, his bowling average was better than Lyon, Pattinson & Siddle - i.e. not trash.

 

[eddiesmith]

I wonder what mark the ICC will give the pitch this time around? In my view it's the best wicket in Australia. Good batsmen make runs and the quicks and the spinners get a look in.

Well given a pitch where only a declaration stopped all batting records being smashed got the highest rating it seems the ICC are pretty soft these days. So it will get the highest rating and be deemed the same level as the 2 roads played on v Pakistan...

 

[Seedsfan]

Yes if we ignore that stupid irrelevant tour game where he also had knee issues the figures look very different. In fact if we just look at the Tests alone, despite the fact that the only Test he was picked for was played on a road and despite the fact he bowled well in the first innings picking up three cruicial wickets only to then be frustratingly underbowled in the second innings, his bowling average was better than Lyon, Pattinson & Siddle - i.e. not trash.

Just looking at the tour as a whole. You do realise those stupid irrelevant games where actually relevant when it came to picking the side. Maybe if he actually performed in them you would of seen him play instead of dreaming about what could have been

 

[Seedsfan]

Well given a pitch where only a declaration stopped all batting records being smashed got the highest rating it seems the ICC are pretty soft these days. So it will get the highest rating and be deemed the same level as the 2 roads played on v Pakistan...

Yeah Adelaide was a road that being said the Pakis bowling was insipid and made it look even worse

 

[Crankitup]

Just looking at the tour as a whole. You do realise those stupid irrelevant games where actually relevant when it came to picking the side. Maybe if he actually performed in them you would of seen him play instead of dreaming about what could have been

Actually Paine suggests in this article they weren't taking much notice of the tour games so they seem pretty irrelevant in the scheme of things. You said yourself earlier that Starc was only picked on rotation policy not for his performance against Derbyshire, Worcester or anyone else.

https://www.sportsmax.tv/index.php/...ire-match-no-audition-for-starc-and-hazlewood

 

[Seedsfan]

Actually Paine suggests in this article they weren't taking much notice of the tour games so they seem pretty irrelevant in the scheme of things. You said yourself earlier that Starc was only picked on rotation policy not for his performance against Derbyshire, Worcester or anyone else.

https://www.sportsmax.tv/index.php/...ire-match-no-audition-for-starc-and-hazlewood

So you think if Starc showed them what they wanted to see they wouldn’t of picked him? They more or less knew Cummins and Hazelwood we’re locks irregardless of how they performed. If Starc performed he would have been picked

 

[frankrizzo]

Yeah Adelaide was a road that being said the Pakis bowling was insipid and made it look even worse

I thought it was a terrible deck really and without the pink ball at night even pakistan may have gotten a draw, those decks are the ones i hate for pink ball cricket the whole thing feels like the game is in a holding pattern till the lights come on.

 

[Crankitup]

So you think if Starc showed them what they wanted to see they wouldn’t of picked him? They more or less knew Cummins and Hazelwood we’re locks irregardless of how they performed. If Starc performed he would have been picked

That's not what Paine said and it's not what you said earlier. You said Starc wasn't picked for any of his tour game performances but on rotation policy alone.

 

[eddiesmith]

Yeah Adelaide was a road that being said the Pakis bowling was insipid and made it look even worse

And their batting was so insipid it made it look better than it was! It would have been interesting to see the rating if it was against a competent batting lineup.

 

[Crankitup]

Starc is rocks or diamonds, he is erratic on his day on a pitch that suits he can be devastating but he can also be pedestrian.

Surprised you didn't say "trash or treasure". Maybe you were just being tactful (at last).

 

[Seedsfan]

And their batting was so insipid it made it look better than it was! It would have been interesting to see the rating if it was against a competent batting lineup.

Look I think the suffered the opposite that Perth did, Perth had unseasonably hot conditions that accelerated the breaking up of the pitch as it tried and I think Adelaide being unseasonably cold resulted in it just stayed a road for the whole test

 

[Seedsfan]

That's not what Paine said and it's not what you said earlier. You said Starc wasn't picked for any of his tour game performances but on rotation policy alone.

Lol they had certain roles they wanted for the bowlers Patto played the first test as they didn’t believe Hazelwood would be able to get through the first two tests back to back and they didn’t think Starc was up to it.

They had their preferred new ball bowlers being Cummins and Hazelwood locked in unless they failed there wasn’t really any room for Starc. Siddle was in to be a change bowler he showed in the first half of the county season and the tour games he could play that role and he executed it alright at test level until he shat the bed in the last test.

Starc had no exposed red ball form and his one chance to get the new ball he had to bowl with control and accuracy in the first tour game (being Hick v Haddin) he was unable to demonstrate that the new ball bowlers went on to bowl well so after that all he was going to be used for was in the rotation policy. He had a chance early and didn’t take it

They picked Patto for the first test as he had some reasonable form in county cricket and the test was at his county’s home ground. This gave them more confidence in him, the selectors also knew unless he had a great performance Hazelwood would replace him at Lords

If he performed well in that game he forces his way in over Pattinson and if he bowls well he keeps his spot

 

[Vegeta]

Extremely harsh to call him a fraud. I think his only negative is that he gets constantly grouped with Smith and Kohli, and so people expect him to play in the same way and with the same consistency like those two.

In my opinion, Smith and Kohli can definitely be grouped together because they dominate a series more often than not, even if their team might not emerge as the winners. Kohli went to England after his horror series in 2014 and he dominated that series with the bat. Smith went to England after his one year ban and he dominated that series with his runs. Kohli went to South Africa and dominated the run charts in the series. Smith came to India and dominated the run charts in the series even if Australia couldn't win. You expect Kane to be pretty consistent with the bat, but you don't really expect him the dominate in the same way as Smith and Kohli.

Even the statistics show the same results. In the last four years, Smith averages 73 with the bat, Kohli comes second averaging 67 with the bat. Williamson is the next best at 57. Against Ind, Aus, Eng and SA, Kane's average gets pegged back a bit while Smith and Kohli's remains more or less the same.

But I think it's also a product of how little tests NZ play. Root, Kohli and Smith will get second opportunity to prove their mettle if they fail the first time in a particular country and they get more tests to do the same whereas NZ doesn't get as many tests as the big 3 teams and so Williamson is left with few tests to prove himself.

If you were to ask my opinion, I would rank the fab 4 in test cricket as,

Smith
Then
Kohli
(gap)
Kane
(some gap)
Root

If you don't compare Williamson to Smith and Kohli and just look at his numbers objectively, he is among the best in the world.

That's the thing, every series I'm hit in the face with how great his technique is or how he's one of the best in the world. As if I don't follow the sport and don't know Smith and Kohli are far above everyone. It's incredibly obnoxious, doesn't help he isn't performing and we're getting killed by Australia.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

That's the thing every series I'm hit in the face with how great his technique is or how he's one of the best in the world. As if I don't follow the sport and don't know Smith and Kohli are far above everyone. It's incredibly obnoxious, doesn't help he isn't performing and we're getting killed by Australia.

He'd want to perform in these two tests, he's done nothing this last year. The last test in NZ was a joke (no offence, but even Root got runs)

 

[Vegeta]

He'd want to perform in these two tests, he's done nothing this last year. The last test in NZ was a joke (no offence, but even Root got runs)

He wouldn't have runs there if it weren't for Denly. Could have gone a year without a Test 100.

This dude gets my hopes up only to dash them every time. Two WC Finals heardled as our best he does jack all.

I'm harsher on him than any of our other batsmen because don't get anywhere near the hype or have scored tough runs for us.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

He wouldn't have runs there if it weren't for Denly. Could have gone a year without a Test 100.

This dude gets my hopes up only to dash them every time. Two WC Finals heardled as our best he does jack all.

I'm harsher on him than any of our other batsmen because don't get anywhere near the hype or have scored tough runs for us.

He should send Denly a Christmas card. Won't be long before he's at 5-6 in the rankings the way he's going

 

[Vegeta]

Just support your Indian team then if the kiwis aren't good enough for you.

Why on earth should I support India?

 

[Barlos Crathwaite]

Stop spamming the board with trash posts about Kane, Aman..

This....

 

[Barlos Crathwaite]

Worst troll ever to go after NZ's best ever batsman.