List Mgmt. Contracts. Trades. Draft. 2021 Edition

[Keys]

Follow link below for contract status of all current players

The Contracts Thread

Updated (20/3/24) the status of all contracts for people’s reference : Overall List - 44 Players : Main List(37), Rookie List(5), Cat B(2) Contracted until the end of 2027 (2) : Tom Barrass (8/10/95) - Signed a 5 year extension (2023,2024,2025,2026,2027) on an existing contract set to...

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[arfadunger]

I'm struggling to see why Kennedy should be forced in retirement. Whether we like it or not, he's still our number one key forward. If someone wants his spot let them earn it, make sure that they are a better option than what Kennedy is. Comparisons to the end of Cox's career are crazy, Cox had lost it and should have been dropped (because we did have better options), but the match committee simply didn't have the balls. As long as the match committee does have the balls to drop JK if a better option is available, then why shouldn't he go on.

 

[Agent93]

I'm struggling to see why Kennedy should be forced in retirement.

Folks see the way a lot of US sports teams are managed and want to apply that here.

A similar thing happened in the NHL recently: Marc-Andre Fleury who has been with the Vegas Golden Knights since their inception won the Vezina trophy for best goaltender in the season just gone. He's a 36 year old vet of 16 seasons experience, and was traded for practically nothing to Chicago because Vegas has another younger, cheaper goaltender.

The AFL has measures in place to protect the players from unwanted movement. I'm sure if the club wanted to do a full teardown (like some posters suggest)
they could find a home for JK (Melbourne would love a dominant key forward, even for a season), but there's no way JK would move. So the next best thing for said posters is to hope he retires.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Marc-Andre Fleury who has been with the Vegas Golden Knights since their inception won the Vezina trophy for best goaltender in the season just gone. He's a 36 year old vet of 16 seasons experience, and was traded for practically nothing to Chicago because Vegas has another younger, cheaper goaltender.

Could look a lot closer to home.

Sam Mitchell wins Hawthorn's best and fairest and is immediately shipped off to us for pick 88.

The bloke who came second was also shipped off.

 

[WCE_phil]

Probably short a genuine KPF option but wouldn’t rush out for a player on height alone.

Our biggest inability is to move the ball through congestion and our post stoppage work. Which is best fixed with running & ground ball players. Fixing that area of our list would result in the quickest turnaround if properly coached.


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I agree and it has been the largest part of our downfall the past few years. The loss of Lecras, Jetta, Rioli (even schofield to a certain extent) and the changes to the rules how greatly hampered our ability to transition.

I also don't think Gaff & Sheed works in the same side. TBH I think Gaff is the one to go. Sheed even if playing wing is a great around the ground stoppage player but even if most think it's too late we need an offseason of specialist tackling coaching and he probably needs 1-2 kg's of muscle and extra strength.

Our defence is also a major issue not just with our lack of run and carry but also with the core players we have as talls we don't have the spots. I would be playing all of barrass, edwards and mcgovern with gov given the third up role as the loose tall and Barrass at CHB instead of FB. The issue in defence is we get destroyed at ground level and where does that leave someone like Rotham (in this scenario we can't play Rotham and Shep in the same side). Can we re-ignite his offensive side from the HB line as he has great kicking and in reality is the shep replacement. Even if that does happen where does that leave Duggan, Nelson, Cole and IMO Witherden for his kicking prowess is a defensive liability (there is a reason brisbane was happy to let him go and it's because of the likes of Starcevich, Ah Chee and co moving ahead of him). His kicking isn't a touch on Hurn, Jetta's or some of the other key playmaking kicks in the league.

Up forward we have too many marking players. Even discounting the issue with talls the reality is that if played primarily deeper forward Ryan is a marking forward which makes us even taller with no-one at their feet. I think he needs to play further up the ground. A fit cripps and rioli playing further up the ground to link up with one of those 3 always up forward, not to mark but to feed off the talls is whats required with what we have. Our back up small forward imo are all worthless. The closest one to being a useful player is Jones and he is borderline best 22 and more like a squad of 30 player who can come in and play a role.

Now to the midfield. Kelly can't shake a tag and gets bullied off the ball, Shuey is just about done, as is Nicnat, Redden closely following (has been great this year) and both Gaff and Sheed are complete defensive liabilities. Also for all his bullocking work and his ability to breakaway Yeo has a tendency to blaze away and isn't a great field kick.

Now to the Ruck. Lets have a real close look. Vardy has been on a par or outperforming Williams in the WAFL as a ruck. Williams is naturally a ruck/forward but he is a horrendous kick for goal. Jamieson if he makes it, is still at the very least 2 and possibly more years away from being physically ready and will be a middling ruckman not a top tier ruck like we've had for 20 odd years. Is he worth holding for that long (maybe a move to the rookie list)

Edwards as a midfielder shows promise but does nothing to improve our speed issues but is a good prospect.
Winder I see lots of potential in and while probably 2-3 years away I can see him being an outside mid who can help with ground ball gets and is very good moving the ball forward.
Trew could be a roleplayer in and under mid but has key deficiencies in his game and again is still a couple of years away from being able to mix it in the only position he's good at.
Foley is a borderline 22 player at best imo but does he have a role at AFL level.
Petch again with another couple of years development could be a roleplayer and has improved this year for the most part but still may not be afl quality.
Waterman is there, waiting and ready to go as a marking forward once Kennedy is gone and is AFL quality but like Darling he is undersized.
Johnson if we persist is hugely physically underdeveloped like Jamieson and is 2-3 years away from being AFL ready and is it worth persisting with.

Does Brander stay on and is he worth keeping. Playing midfield in the WAFL he's not a clearance machine and is more a runner and outside player. He is also timid, weak defensively and again what is his role.

Hurn and Kennedy have justified their positions if they want to go around again and have been our number 1 defender and forward this year.

Every other younger player on the list isn't AFL quality and shows no ability to be so imo. Vardy and Hutchings also have to be delisted. They offer no value moving forwards.

Even with the expected drop off and retirements of old players I see at least 15 players that need replacing in the next 2 years or who are completely not up to it.

So how do we do it, do we look longterm or do we push hard for this years draft. The other clubs will be expecting us to drop significantly again next year (they have no reason to believe otherwise) so our 2022 first round pick could command a very good pick. Maybe around 8-12 and bundling our 2 seconds might get us 17-19.

Go hard with 3 first round picks or we just play it out

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Folks see the way a lot of US sports teams are managed and want to apply that here.

A similar thing happened in the NHL recently: Marc-Andre Fleury who has been with the Vegas Golden Knights since their inception won the Vezina trophy for best goaltender in the season just gone. He's a 36 year old vet of 16 seasons experience, and was traded for practically nothing to Chicago because Vegas has another younger, cheaper goaltender.

The AFL has measures in place to protect the players from unwanted movement. I'm sure if the club wanted to do a full teardown (like some posters suggest)
they could find a home for JK (Melbourne would love a dominant key forward, even for a season), but there's no way JK would move. So the next best thing for said posters is to hope he retires.

I hate the idea of US style player movement coming into the AFL.

But Hurn and Kennedy turn 34 in the next few weeks. In the history of the club, no one has played past their 34th birthday (bar Petrie and Mitchell both of whom were only here a year).

And we’ve seen with plenty of our older players that when the end comes, it comes quick.

I’d rather see them go out on top than play on one year too many.

 

[JackOutback]

I’d rather see them go out on top than play on one year too many.

That ship has well and truly sailed this year

 

[Agent93]

Sam Mitchell wins Hawthorn's best and fairest and is immediately shipped off to us for pick 88.

S.Mitchell and family were obviously amenable to the arrangement, and wanted to continue to pursue playing (same with Hodge). I don't see JK being as keen to uproot to Victoria for a season.

 

[GlennTwenty]

Does anyone else think it would be worth trying to trade for a backup ruck that deserves a spot in the team for whatever role they are playing when they aren't in the ruck? Ideally this would be as a defender as we have plenty of marking forwards but none are viable ruck options as they aren't really tall enough (unless OA keeps growing I guess).

I know we have Williams who will keep improving but the problem with playing Williams or the like as a 2nd ruck/ 4th key forward like we have been is that it means we need to send Allen back and forward so we don't have 4 talls in the forward line at the same time and he will end up spending half the game on the pine as he isn't as good a key forward as OA, JD, JK or even Ryan or Waterman for that matter.

Meanwhile we keep persisting with just 2 tall defenders when I reckon we have always played better with 3. Melbourne play with 3 (Lever, May and Petty) and it works well for them. I know it has been suggested that HEdwards or Gov might be that option to play defense and backup ruck and I like the idea provided HEdwards can actually ruck and Gov can actually run.

I still think it would be good insurance if we could trade out for a key position player that can hold their own in the ruck, or, even better, someone for the WAFL with a late round pick if there are any worth looking at. Not so we can play taller (of course) just so that the talls we do pick don't spend half the game on the pine and the other half racking up 4 touches.

 

[Obeanie1]

Hurn has spoken a fair bit this year about getting into coaching so i hope he pulls the pin and comes on a development coach down back. A lot of players talk about how his knowledge of the game is top notch and see things differently to other players.

A role like Tyson Goldsack at Port perhaps?

On the rookie list but is essentially there as a coach and a last resort if injuries get bad

Add Kennedy aswell.

Its been said by a few on here and in the media. Both JK and Hurn have done enough to earn another year. Both as playing coaches on the rookie list. We save money in the list cap and soft cap. We also get two very good thinkers in the game who know how to run a forward line and a back line.

Win / win. Any games are a bonus.

 

[Obeanie1]

What would Brander realistically net us in a trade? Is it unrealistic to expect the Cats or Tigers stump up picks 27 or 30 for him? Perhaps we send 50 back.

I'd like to think we're looking at taking five picks this year so if we trade Brander that's currently picks: 10, 27, 29, 35, 65.

Is there anything we could do to creatively improve that? Perhaps using next year's second could net us a pick closer to 20 if we can convince a team we're on the way down the ladder next year. The danger is that we're right, but I wouldn't mind us trying to get some quality kids in now with a bit of urgency.

Would rather trade Brander for a like for like emerging talent. But a mid or dare I say it, attacking half back.

Rivers at Melbourne would be great.

Would love Bruhn from GWS.

Warner from Swans.

A kid with potential for Brander who fits a need they have NOW. For a kid who hasnt made it just yet but fits our needs.

Sharpe or Powell from the Suns.

Brander plus our 2022 2nd for Garcia and Dogs 2021 1st.

Massage with pick swaps if needed.

 

[ziad]

I agree and it has been the largest part of our downfall the past few years. The loss of Lecras, Jetta, Rioli (even schofield to a certain extent) and the changes to the rules how greatly hampered our ability to transition.

I also don't think Gaff & Sheed works in the same side. TBH I think Gaff is the one to go. Sheed even if playing wing is a great around the ground stoppage player but even if most think it's too late we need an offseason of specialist tackling coaching and he probably needs 1-2 kg's of muscle and extra strength.

Our defence is also a major issue not just with our lack of run and carry but also with the core players we have as talls we don't have the spots. I would be playing all of barrass, edwards and mcgovern with gov given the third up role as the loose tall and Barrass at CHB instead of FB. The issue in defence is we get destroyed at ground level and where does that leave someone like Rotham (in this scenario we can't play Rotham and Shep in the same side). Can we re-ignite his offensive side from the HB line as he has great kicking and in reality is the shep replacement. Even if that does happen where does that leave Duggan, Nelson, Cole and IMO Witherden for his kicking prowess is a defensive liability (there is a reason brisbane was happy to let him go and it's because of the likes of Starcevich, Ah Chee and co moving ahead of him). His kicking isn't a touch on Hurn, Jetta's or some of the other key playmaking kicks in the league.

Up forward we have too many marking players. Even discounting the issue with talls the reality is that if played primarily deeper forward Ryan is a marking forward which makes us even taller with no-one at their feet. I think he needs to play further up the ground. A fit cripps and rioli playing further up the ground to link up with one of those 3 always up forward, not to mark but to feed off the talls is whats required with what we have. Our back up small forward imo are all worthless. The closest one to being a useful player is Jones and he is borderline best 22 and more like a squad of 30 player who can come in and play a role.

Now to the midfield. Kelly can't shake a tag and gets bullied off the ball, Shuey is just about done, as is Nicnat, Redden closely following (has been great this year) and both Gaff and Sheed are complete defensive liabilities. Also for all his bullocking work and his ability to breakaway Yeo has a tendency to blaze away and isn't a great field kick.

Now to the Ruck. Lets have a real close look. Vardy has been on a par or outperforming Williams in the WAFL as a ruck. Williams is naturally a ruck/forward but he is a horrendous kick for goal. Jamieson if he makes it, is still at the very least 2 and possibly more years away from being physically ready and will be a middling ruckman not a top tier ruck like we've had for 20 odd years. Is he worth holding for that long (maybe a move to the rookie list)

Edwards as a midfielder shows promise but does nothing to improve our speed issues but is a good prospect.
Winder I see lots of potential in and while probably 2-3 years away I can see him being an outside mid who can help with ground ball gets and is very good moving the ball forward.
Trew could be a roleplayer in and under mid but has key deficiencies in his game and again is still a couple of years away from being able to mix it in the only position he's good at.
Foley is a borderline 22 player at best imo but does he have a role at AFL level.
Petch again with another couple of years development could be a roleplayer and has improved this year for the most part but still may not be afl quality.
Waterman is there, waiting and ready to go as a marking forward once Kennedy is gone and is AFL quality but like Darling he is undersized.
Johnson if we persist is hugely physically underdeveloped like Jamieson and is 2-3 years away from being AFL ready and is it worth persisting with.

Does Brander stay on and is he worth keeping. Playing midfield in the WAFL he's not a clearance machine and is more a runner and outside player. He is also timid, weak defensively and again what is his role.

Hurn and Kennedy have justified their positions if they want to go around again and have been our number 1 defender and forward this year.

Every other younger player on the list isn't AFL quality and shows no ability to be so imo. Vardy and Hutchings also have to be delisted. They offer no value moving forwards.

Even with the expected drop off and retirements of old players I see at least 15 players that need replacing in the next 2 years or who are completely not up to it.

So how do we do it, do we look longterm or do we push hard for this years draft. The other clubs will be expecting us to drop significantly again next year (they have no reason to believe otherwise) so our 2022 first round pick could command a very good pick. Maybe around 8-12 and bundling our 2 seconds might get us 17-19.

Go hard with 3 first round picks or we just play it out

Got to agree with a lot of this and there is a lot.
Brander is 22 and hasnt made it. He will never make it (cry all you like).
Waterman isn't relevant to our team structure and hasn't made it either, move the spud on (continue to cry)
We have injured small forwards who may come good
Petro has a weapon (pace) but injury has robbed him. If he isnt fit he is of no value.
Mids that have no pace cannot defend well or give spread and overlapping run in attack. Rebuild here.
Defence is the first line of attack - not a wall. We have neither.
When West Perth belts your WAFL team - delist most.

 

[dkalphy]

We will NOT kick Kennedy out the door. What the f are you guys on? Seriously were you guys dropped as a kid?

Kennedy has kicked 3+ goals in 8 straight derbies. No disrespect to any of the other "young" forwards we have but they would be lucky to kick 3 goals in 8 games total.

Kennedy is literally one of the best forwards in the game still, i'd argue one of our most important players and top 5 player for us.

On top of all that he's quite durable, Hurn's body is giving out but JK can play next year 16-18 games minimum.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

That ship has well and truly sailed this year

Not for either of those guys, based on their personal performance.

 

[Monocle]

Does anyone else think it would be worth trying to trade for a backup ruck that deserves a spot in the team for whatever role they are playing when they aren't in the ruck? Ideally this would be as a defender as we have plenty of marking forwards but none are viable ruck options as they aren't really tall enough (unless OA keeps growing I guess).

I know we have Williams who will keep improving but the problem with playing Williams or the like as a 2nd ruck/ 4th key forward like we have been is that it means we need to send Allen back and forward so we don't have 4 talls in the forward line at the same time and he will end up spending half the game on the pine as he isn't as good a key forward as OA, JD, JK or even Ryan or Waterman for that matter.

Meanwhile we keep persisting with just 2 tall defenders when I reckon we have always played better with 3. Melbourne play with 3 (Lever, May and Petty) and it works well for them. I know it has been suggested that HEdwards or Gov might be that option to play defense and backup ruck and I like the idea provided HEdwards can actually ruck and Gov can actually run.

I still think it would be good insurance if we could trade out for a key position player that can hold their own in the ruck, or, even better, someone for the WAFL with a late round pick if there are any worth looking at. Not so we can play taller (of course) just so that the talls we do pick don't spend half the game on the pine and the other half racking up 4 touches.

I wouldn’t want us to trade in a back up ruckman as they are invariably over priced in terms of trade capital, and more often that not teams pay way overs for a back up off another AFL list.

But I like your idea of a backup ruckman.

Here is what I would seriously consider doing.

Based on the proviso that we have been able to pick up in the draft, the mids that we wanted and also a developing tall and got the NGA kid/s that we rate.

A player who I believe would be a serious upgrade on Vardy and has actually outperformed Williams in the WAFL is Luke Strnadica from East Fremantle.

He is 203 cm and 103 kg, he is 23 and in developing ruckman terms, that is still very young, has a lot of miles in the tank and is at the age where many a young rucks have started to come of age.

Averages 15 possessions per game and 36 ruck knocks, bonus he is a ruckman that also tackles.

Remember that Strnadica first played for WA in the under 20 champs as a KPF ( FF ) who was a very handy boundary ruck when the ball was in the forwardline. Since then he has developed into a full on, out and out ruckman, however he is still a very reliable and accurate shot in front of goals.

Would be a cheap option and he could have big upside as he has just got better and better in the WAFL the last four years.

I have tracked his development closely and I thought he was harshly treated and prematurely cut, by the utensil Burners.

I think he is a player who now that he has stopped growing, has finally come to terms with his body and has some good football ahead of him.

For those of you unfamiliar with Strnadica check out his WAFL form and keep an eye on him for the rest of the season.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

I wouldn’t want us to trade in a back up ruckman as they are invariably over priced in terms of trade capital, and more often that not teams pay way overs for a back up off another AFL list.

But I like your idea of a backup ruckman.

Here is what I would seriously consider doing.

Based on the proviso that we have been able to pick up the mids that we wanted and also a developing tall and got the NGA kid/s that we rate.

A player who I believe would be a serious upgrade on Vardy and has actually outperformed Williams in the WAFL is Luke Strnadica from East Fremantle.

He is 203 cm and 103 kg, he is 23 and in developing young ruckmen terms, that still very young, has a lot of miles in the tank and is at the age where many a young ruck has started to come of age.

Averages 15 possessions per game and 36 ruck knocks, bonus he is a ruckman that also tackles.

Remember that Strnadica first played for WA in the under 20 champs as a KPF ( FF ) who was a very handy boundary ruck when the ball was in the forwardline. Since then he has developed into a full on l, out and out ruckman, however he is still a very reliable and accurate shot in front of goals.

Would be a cheap option and he could have big upside as he has just got better and better in the WAFL the last four years.

I have tracked his development closely and I thought he was harshly treated and prematurely cut, by the utensil Burners.

I think he is a player who now that he has stopped growing, has finally come to terms with his body and has some good football ahead of him.

For those of you unformular with Strnadica check out his WAFL form and keep an eye on him for the rest of the season.

He got a bit of a mention around the mid-season draft but teams wanting ruck options (I’m chiefly thinking of Gold Coast here) seemed to stash young prospects like Moyle instead of going for a ready-to-play ruck like Strnadica, or Knoll from SA.

He could be a Callum Sinclair equivalent - plucked out of the WAFL at about 23 and able to come into the senior side straight away.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Or tackling! How many broken tackles each week, even the Freo game it ended up costing us the game.

And your right, our midfield gets spoon fed by Nic Nat and if they don't get the ball he butters up with a tackle that gets us the ball back. Nics not going to be around in 4 years time so we need mids that aren't reliant on winning the tap.

From what I've seen there are some midfield bulls in this draft with great foot skills (unicorns), and they're not being talked up. Sheldrick and Dittmar! Prioritise these guys in the draft!

Sheldrick and Dittmar are so "not an O’Brien pick" and I see them as good third rounders- my blue collar inside mids.

Let’s hope Trew develops over the summer.

 

[Monocle]

Sheldrick and Dittmar are so "not an O’Brien pick" and I see them as good third rounders- my blue collar inside mids.

Let’s hope Trew develops over the summer.

Hopefully the Championships go ahead in some form at seasons end.
I think both Sheldrick and Dittmar have a real opportunity to push themselves into the mid to late second round, with a good Championships.

I am a fan of both, but agree with you that neither of them are an O’Brien type pick ( although Sheldrick is a Christ Church boy so he does tick the Private School box ).

SA also has some good inside mids that are, IMO floating around the second round grade value as well.

I do miss the old days when our recruiters like the Woodhouses, Mick Moylan and Merriington actually picked and rated hard nosed footballers first and athletes second.

A loose head like Peter Wilson wouldn’t garner a second look from our current recruiting team due to “ Chisel Chin’s “ quirky, cocky, left of center personality.
The dual Premiership Player that Wilson became was forged on his sheer hard work and obsessive hatred for losing.

I just can’t imagine Wilson walking the Congo line, after the final siren, with the team and shaking the oppositions hand, give them a hug, smile and share pleasantries after he had just lost a game.

Alas I am getting to old and reminiscing way to often on a bygone era.

 

[amazingjoshy]

I wouldn’t want us to trade in a back up ruckman as they are invariably over priced in terms of trade capital, and more often that not teams pay way overs for a back up off another AFL list.

But I like your idea of a backup ruckman.

Here is what I would seriously consider doing.

Based on the proviso that we have been able to pick up the mids that we wanted and also a developing tall and got the NGA kid/s that we rate.

A player who I believe would be a serious upgrade on Vardy and has actually outperformed Williams in the WAFL is Luke Strnadica from East Fremantle.

He is 203 cm and 103 kg, he is 23 and in developing young ruckmen terms, that still very young, has a lot of miles in the tank and is at the age where many a young ruck has started to come of age.

Averages 15 possessions per game and 36 ruck knocks, bonus he is a ruckman that also tackles.

Remember that Strnadica first played for WA in the under 20 champs as a KPF ( FF ) who was a very handy boundary ruck when the ball was in the forwardline. Since then he has developed into a full on l, out and out ruckman, however he is still a very reliable and accurate shot in front of goals.

Would be a cheap option and he could have big upside as he has just got better and better in the WAFL the last four years.

I have tracked his development closely and I thought he was harshly treated and prematurely cut, by the utensil Burners.

I think he is a player who now that he has stopped growing, has finally come to terms with his body and has some good football ahead of him.

For those of you unformular with Strnadica check out his WAFL form and keep an eye on him for the rest of the season.

Don't mind it. Seems sacrilege to say for supporters of NNs team, but fact is the only team in the top 8 whose ruck is in their handful of best players is Melbourne. Same could be said for the last 10+ years of premiership teams

Unless you have an out and out superstar, having more than just a battler ruckman just isn't that important. And even then the evidence is that it simply hasn't been that important a position for successful teams

 

[kane249]

He got a bit of a mention around the mid-season draft but teams wanting ruck options (I’m chiefly thinking of Gold Coast here) seemed to stash young prospects like Moyle instead of going for a ready-to-play ruck like Strnadica, or Knoll from SA.

He could be a Callum Sinclair equivalent - plucked out of the WAFL at about 23 and able to come into the senior side straight away.

He could also be a Scott Jones

 

[ziad]

Don't mind it. Seems sacrilege to say for supporters of NNs team, but fact is the only team in the top 8 whose ruck is in their handful of best players is Melbourne. Same could be said for the last 10+ years of premiership teams

Unless you have an out and out superstar, having more than just a battler ruckman just isn't that important. And even then the evidence is that it simply hasn't been that important a position for successful teams

Quite so, but sadly for our list Nic is our best mid. He just happens to ruck as well.

 

[Priddis Is Done]

I agree and it has been the largest part of our downfall the past few years. The loss of Lecras, Jetta, Rioli (even schofield to a certain extent) and the changes to the rules how greatly hampered our ability to transition.

I also don't think Gaff & Sheed works in the same side. TBH I think Gaff is the one to go. Sheed even if playing wing is a great around the ground stoppage player but even if most think it's too late we need an offseason of specialist tackling coaching and he probably needs 1-2 kg's of muscle and extra strength.

Our defence is also a major issue not just with our lack of run and carry but also with the core players we have as talls we don't have the spots. I would be playing all of barrass, edwards and mcgovern with gov given the third up role as the loose tall and Barrass at CHB instead of FB. The issue in defence is we get destroyed at ground level and where does that leave someone like Rotham (in this scenario we can't play Rotham and Shep in the same side). Can we re-ignite his offensive side from the HB line as he has great kicking and in reality is the shep replacement. Even if that does happen where does that leave Duggan, Nelson, Cole and IMO Witherden for his kicking prowess is a defensive liability (there is a reason brisbane was happy to let him go and it's because of the likes of Starcevich, Ah Chee and co moving ahead of him). His kicking isn't a touch on Hurn, Jetta's or some of the other key playmaking kicks in the league.

Up forward we have too many marking players. Even discounting the issue with talls the reality is that if played primarily deeper forward Ryan is a marking forward which makes us even taller with no-one at their feet. I think he needs to play further up the ground. A fit cripps and rioli playing further up the ground to link up with one of those 3 always up forward, not to mark but to feed off the talls is whats required with what we have. Our back up small forward imo are all worthless. The closest one to being a useful player is Jones and he is borderline best 22 and more like a squad of 30 player who can come in and play a role.

Now to the midfield. Kelly can't shake a tag and gets bullied off the ball, Shuey is just about done, as is Nicnat, Redden closely following (has been great this year) and both Gaff and Sheed are complete defensive liabilities. Also for all his bullocking work and his ability to breakaway Yeo has a tendency to blaze away and isn't a great field kick.

Now to the Ruck. Lets have a real close look. Vardy has been on a par or outperforming Williams in the WAFL as a ruck. Williams is naturally a ruck/forward but he is a horrendous kick for goal. Jamieson if he makes it, is still at the very least 2 and possibly more years away from being physically ready and will be a middling ruckman not a top tier ruck like we've had for 20 odd years. Is he worth holding for that long (maybe a move to the rookie list)

Edwards as a midfielder shows promise but does nothing to improve our speed issues but is a good prospect.
Winder I see lots of potential in and while probably 2-3 years away I can see him being an outside mid who can help with ground ball gets and is very good moving the ball forward.
Trew could be a roleplayer in and under mid but has key deficiencies in his game and again is still a couple of years away from being able to mix it in the only position he's good at.
Foley is a borderline 22 player at best imo but does he have a role at AFL level.
Petch again with another couple of years development could be a roleplayer and has improved this year for the most part but still may not be afl quality.
Waterman is there, waiting and ready to go as a marking forward once Kennedy is gone and is AFL quality but like Darling he is undersized.
Johnson if we persist is hugely physically underdeveloped like Jamieson and is 2-3 years away from being AFL ready and is it worth persisting with.

Does Brander stay on and is he worth keeping. Playing midfield in the WAFL he's not a clearance machine and is more a runner and outside player. He is also timid, weak defensively and again what is his role.

Hurn and Kennedy have justified their positions if they want to go around again and have been our number 1 defender and forward this year.

Every other younger player on the list isn't AFL quality and shows no ability to be so imo. Vardy and Hutchings also have to be delisted. They offer no value moving forwards.

Even with the expected drop off and retirements of old players I see at least 15 players that need replacing in the next 2 years or who are completely not up to it.

So how do we do it, do we look longterm or do we push hard for this years draft. The other clubs will be expecting us to drop significantly again next year (they have no reason to believe otherwise) so our 2022 first round pick could command a very good pick. Maybe around 8-12 and bundling our 2 seconds might get us 17-19.

Go hard with 3 first round picks or we just play it out

That was a dose of reality. Depressing

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

Add Kennedy aswell.

Its been said by a few on here and in the media. Both JK and Hurn have done enough to earn another year. Both as playing coaches on the rookie list. We save money in the list cap and soft cap. We also get two very good thinkers in the game who know how to run a forward line and a back line.

Win / win. Any games are a bonus.

As long as they understand that we will be playing the young guys first and they are back up in case of injury.

We should be only playing 2 key forwards 2 key backs 1 forward/ruck 1 ruck and 1 3rd tall defender .

Half our problem this years has been going in with too many key positions players . This is not being too tall as I think if a mid or a forward doesn't play like a tall then they shouldn't count . Like cripps or bontempelli .

I mean yeo is the same size as darling but they don't play the same .

Seeing brander play on ball in the last quarter of the Wafl Sunday i was impressed. He showed a lot more mongrel than I normally see from him . It may be worth a go

 

[bombard]

Hopefully the Championships go ahead in some form at seasons end.
I think both Sheldrick and Dittmar have a real opportunity to push themselves into the mid to late second round, with a good Championships.

I am a fan of both, but agree with you that neither of them are an O’Brien type pick ( although Sheldrick is a Christ Church boy so he does tick the Private School box ).

SA also has some good inside mids that are, IMO floating around the second round grade value as well.

I do miss the old days when our recruiters like the Woodhouses, Mick Moylan and Merriington actually picked and rated hard nosed footballers first and athletes second.

A loose head like Peter Wilson wouldn’t garner a second look from our current recruiting team due to “ Chisel Chin’s “ quirky, cocky, left of center personality.
The dual Premiership Player that Wilson became was forged on his sheer hard work and obsessive hatred for losing.

I just can’t imagine Wilson walking the Congo line, after the final siren, with the team and shaking the oppositions hand, give them a hug, smile and share pleasantries after he had just lost a game.

Alas I am getting to old and reminiscing way to often on a bygone era.

Other than Matera, Wilson was my second favourite from that vintage of the club. Made up for his physical and skill limitations with sheer force of will. Was bloody inspiring to watch as a young bloke.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

As long as they understand that we will be playing the young guys first and they are back up in case of injury.

We should be only playing 2 key forwards 2 key backs 1 forward/ruck 1 ruck and 1 3rd tall defender .

Half our problem this years has been going in with too many key positions players . This is not being too tall as I think if a mid or a forward doesn't play like a tall then they shouldn't count . Like cripps or bontempelli .

I mean yeo is the same size as darling but they don't play the same .

Seeing brander play on ball in the last quarter of the Wafl Sunday i was impressed. He showed a lot more mongrel than I normally see from him . It may be worth a go

If Jk and Hurn play on it won’t be as back up players. Simply not going to happen. They will be first choice players full stop As they should be.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

We will NOT kick Kennedy out the door. What the f are you guys on? Seriously were you guys dropped as a kid?

Kennedy has kicked 3+ goals in 8 straight derbies. No disrespect to any of the other "young" forwards we have but they would be lucky to kick 3 goals in 8 games total.

Kennedy is literally one of the best forwards in the game still, i'd argue one of our most important players and top 5 player for us.

On top of all that he's quite durable, Hurn's body is giving out but JK can play next year 16-18 games minimum.

Speaking of being dropped on their head, your lack of comprehension on the Kennedy discussion is embarrassing.

He's one of our most important players to what end?

It's not like he has another 3 seasons up his sleeve and will play a part in helping build the list towards our next flag (even if ultimately he wasn't to be around once we scale those heights again). Another 12 months being the focal point only stifles the development of Allen, the man we need to fulfil his potential if we're to have a genuine target for our next premiership tilt. It potentially stifles the development of Williams, who could both support NN and develop his forward craft as a resting 3rd tall instead of being that 1 tall too many who throws the team off balance.

So please do tell how keeping Kennedy for another 12 months benefits the club beyond a 35-40 goal season that in the context of our clubs success will be meaningless.