Review Dees v Carrrrrrlton: Good, Bad & Fugly

[Dory_77]

MOD NOTE:
Greetings Oppo fans,

No doubt you've some sharp repartee to share, but please note we reserve the right to tell you to gagf if you're being a floggo.

Cheerio

 

[Topkent]

Gawns kicks were low percentage because it was Gawn kicking them. But if you just want to lament a few minutes of missed opportunities then go for your life. It's an all too familiar story for this team imo.

Yeah it's the same s**t every game. All the marks and chances come from the pockets so we are always gonna be victim to bad kicking. We don't create easy goals

 

[Johnny Karate]

Fritsch’s shot was a tough one but as soon as I saw him lining up to snap, I didn’t hold out much hope. If he was confident he would have lined up the drop punt, don’t ever recall him really lining up a snap unless deep in the pocket/up against the behind post.

 

[Topkent]

Fritsch’s shot was a tough one but as soon as I saw him lining up to snap, I didn’t hold out much hope. If he was confident he would have lined up the drop punt, don’t ever recall him really lining up a snap unless deep in the pocket/up against the behind post.

Yup Fritta really struggled under the pressure of finals this year. His set shots were atrocious

 

[Bluelegs]

Yeah it's the same s**t every game. All the marks and chances come from the pockets so we are always gonna be victim to bad kicking. We don't create easy goals

Checkout how much better the quality of our shots against Richmond were:


There's a couple of early long bombs that were saved by incredible marking efforts from Petty but for the most part the goals are all very direct set shots within 25 metres on slight angles and a bunch right out of the goal square generated by fast, direct ball movement. Only a handful of low percentage kicks all up.

That's how you take goal kicking accuracy out of the equation.

 

[stEdy]

This part isn't true. Nick Larkey has him covered easily statistically.

He was the second player I checked. There's probably more aswell

Larkey does look to have a better record over the last 3 years - I may have mis-remembered an article, but my point is that Fritta is an excellent kick for goal over a long period of time.

Is this up for debate? He's also been our best performed forward across finals from the last 3 seasons.

 

[stEdy]

Checkout how much better the quality of our shots against Richmond were:


There's a couple of early long bombs that were saved by incredible marking efforts from Petty but for the most part the goals are all very direct set shots within 25 metres on slight angles and a bunch right out of the goal square generated by fast, direct ball movement. Only a handful of low percentage kicks all up.

That's how you take goal kicking accuracy out of the equation.

Come on mate, Richmond are one of the worst defensive sides of the year.

That game was played with zero pressure across the park.

 

[Bluelegs]

Come on mate, Richmond are one of the worst defensive sides of the year.

That game was played with zero pressure across the park.

You're missing the point. It's just an example of goal kicking in terms of where the shots are generated from. Other top teams are able to generate shots on goal like this, it's what we should be aspiring for.

 

[Topkent]

Come on mate, Richmond are one of the worst defensive sides of the year.

That game was played with zero pressure across the park.

What are you arguing here? That we should continue bombing to the pocket and hope Gawn kicks one every now and then

 

[Topkent]

Larkey does look to have a better record over the last 3 years - I may have mis-remembered an article, but my point is that Fritta is an excellent kick for goal over a long period of time.

Is this up for debate? He's also been our best performed forward across finals from the last 3 seasons.

He was pretty average this finals. Missed most of his set shots. Generally been a very reliable player for us yes but we don't give him a chance with the s**t ball movement

 

[Lord Nev]

You're missing the point. It's just an example of goal kicking in terms of where the shots are generated from. Other top teams are able to generate shots on goal like this, it's what we should be aspiring for.

Expected score measures the difficulty of each shot and we've been ahead in that stat in both finals.

It was the skills, not the difficulty.

 

[Bluelegs]

Expected score measures the difficulty of each shot and we've been ahead in that stat in both finals.

It was the skills, not the difficulty.

See this post:

And if you want to bring up expected score. The fact that we were winning that stat so often in our losses shows that we needed to generate even higher percentage shots at goal to account for our inaccuracy.

We thought we could fix our woes through goal kicking accuracy this season and it turned out to be a complete waste of time. If we go into next year with the same solution we will fail.

 

[Topkent]

See this post:

We thought we could fix our woes through goal kicking accuracy this season and it turned out to be a complete waste of time. If we go into next year with the same solution we will fail.

Yep you lose one game with bad kicking it's bad luck. It happens over and over again it's not just random. Expected scores can piss off anyway, a shot from the same spot isn't the same percentage. You have 10 shots on goal each qtr and there's far less pressure on each shot because another will come. When you only get a handful of shots at goal a qtr because of the game style each one feels more important and makes it easier to psych yourself out.

 

[melbun]

1. Body square to the target. i.e. Line it up correctly
2. Hold ball straight, pointed at goal
3. Run straight at goal
4. Drop ball straight on the foot and keep eyes on the ball and swing leg straight.
5. Celebrate

Most players fail in step 1.
Hook shot kicking action is a disaster (ask Gryan Miers

32

Gryan Miers

Age

25

Ht

179cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.4

4star

K

9.1

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.1

4star

T

1.8

4star

G

1.1

4star

D

15.3

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.6

4star

T

1.6

3star

G

0.9

4star

D

14.4

4star

K

8.4

4star

HB

6.0

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.2

4star

) when kicking for goal.

If everything is straight it minimizes the chance of failure. Ask Peter Hudson or Tony Lockett

Tony Lockett

Age

58

Ht

191cm

Wt

108kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.2

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

1.8

2star

M

6.3

5star

T

0.5

3star

G

4.8

5star

No current season stats available

D

8.2

2star

K

5.6

3star

HB

2.6

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

0.0

1star

G

1.4

5star

.

 

[Lord Nev]

See this post:

We thought we could fix our woes through goal kicking accuracy this season and it turned out to be a complete waste of time. If we go into next year with the same solution we will fail.

Right, so we bring in a near impossible game plan of having ALL easy shots rather than improve our goal kicking skills?

Sorry, not on board with that at all. The players need to lift in the time and effort they put into skills sessions and get up to AFL standard. Expected score measures the difficulty, including defensive pressure, of each shot, so if we are well below the AFL average then that's a pretty obvious area of improvement.

 

[Bluelegs]

Yep you lose one game with bad kicking it's bad luck. It happens over and over again it's not just random. Expected scores can piss off anyway, a shot from the same spot isn't the same percentage. You have 10 shots on goal each qtr and there's far less pressure on each shot because another will come. When you only get a handful of shots at goal a qtr because of the game style each one feels more important and makes it easier to psych yourself out.

I'll put my hand up and say I thought that spending more time on goal kicking would be a big competitive advantage but we've had no ROI for it. Looked accurate for half the season and terrible for the other half and when it mattered most. Removing as much margin for error as possible way more important.

 

[melbun]

Removing as much margin for error as possible way more important.

A shot on goal technique that survives the pressure of game day is required. You are right, "minimize the risk".

Ask Harry McKay.

 

[Topkent]

I'll put my hand up and say I thought that spending more time on goal kicking would be a big competitive advantage but we've had no ROI for it. Looked accurate for half the season and terrible for the other half and when it mattered most. Removing as much margin for error as possible way more important.

Because you can't train set shot goal kicking under pressure. None of our guys had new techniques this year or simplified run ups or anything etc. Just kicking 100 set shots at training doesn't matter if you have fundamental flaws like Pickett and Gawn.

It's all between the ears, Jamie Elliot didn't kick those match winners from practice, he kicked them because he embraced the moment and wanted to be the match winner.

 

[stEdy]

You're missing the point. It's just an example of goal kicking in terms of where the shots are generated from. Other top teams are able to generate shots on goal like this, it's what we should be aspiring for.

It's give and take - Richmond kicked 98 points in this game. It's a balancing act that we need to tweak again over the off-season.

I personally hope Yze gets the Tiges job and we shuffle the assistants around. Maybe poach a ball movement/midfield coach from Giants or Brisbane. There's also the question of cattle and what we have at our disposal in the midfield and up forward.

 

[melbun]

Just kicking 100 set shots at training doesn't matter if you have fundamental flaws like Pickett and Gawn.

Indeed. Practicing a flawed action (see also golf, hockey, tennis ...) is a feature of the loser.

 

[Bluelegs]

Right, so we bring in a near impossible game plan of having ALL easy shots rather than improve our goal kicking skills?

Sorry, not on board with that at all. The players need to lift in the time and effort they put into skills sessions and get up to AFL standard. Expected score measures the difficulty, including defensive pressure, of each shot, so if we are well below the AFL average then that's a pretty obvious area of improvement.

Either we find players who can take those shots or we find ways to generate easier shots. How often do you see players genuinely fix their goal-kicking? Gawn will never be a more reliable kick than he is now. Petracca will always try to kick the skin off the ball. We can't rely on our guys to kick goals from the shots we're giving them so we need to find another solution.

 

[Topkent]

Indeed. Practicing a flawed action (see also golf, hockey, tennis ...) is a feature of the loser.

Max Gawn is the worst, running out the right for a ******* set shot 15m out is ******* stupid. He should be banned from kicking for goal if he's gonna keep that s**t up

 

[Bluelegs]

It's give and take - Richmond kicked 98 points in this game. It's a balancing act that we need to tweak again over the off-season.

I personally hope Yze gets the Tiges job and we shuffle the assistants around. Maybe poach a ball movement/midfield coach from Giants or Brisbane. There's also the question of cattle and what we have at our disposal in the midfield and up forward.

I'm happy with that. We have the defence to strike the right balance but our offence has killed us two years running now.

 

[Crusty Demon]

Trac and Koz better spend all summer working on goal kicking routines. I feel if these two improve their accuracy, we'll be a 4-5 goal better side each week.

Not at all fussed about Fritta. He's got runs on the board and I reckon his foot was a concern. Tbh. I reckon that attributed to his poor efficiency. Petty is a decent set shot. Even Joel Smith seems decent enough. But Koz and Trac generate so many shots, so work on their routines and we instantly become a better side. Trac in particular.

 

[Topkent]

Either we find players who can take those shots or we find ways to generate easier shots. How often do you see players genuinely fix their goal-kicking? Gawn will never be a more reliable kick than he is now. Petracca will always try to kick the skin off the ball. We can't rely on our guys to kick goals from the shots we're giving them so we need to find another solution.

I think we should try bombing it inside 50 and winning the expected score premiership it's done so well for us so far

 

[Lord Nev]

Either we find players who can take those shots or we find ways to generate easier shots. How often do you see players genuinely fix their goal-kicking? Gawn will never be a more reliable kick than he is now. Petracca will always try to kick the skin off the ball. We can't rely on our guys to kick goals from the shots we're giving them so we need to find another solution.

I just don't think adjusting your game plan to fit in around a skill weakness is a winning strategy.