Preview Greater Western Sydney vs Essendon, Sydney Showgrounds, Saturday 26/05/18 @ 7:25 PM

[YEMOC NAYR]

While I'm sad about Clarke not getting a gig, on the top of my head I can't think of blokes who I'd drop for him. Langford played a good game and needs time in the seniors, Laverde was poor but he needs seniors time.

If the choice was clarke vs mcgrath you take mcgrath. He's right there knocking on the door, he'll get a decent run.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Send McGrath to Kelly, learn his patterns and should be able to burn him occasionally due to Kelly missing so much football.

 

[Dons4days]

With Clarke going out it’d be nice to see Lav get a bit more time in the midfield.

 

[nipst@r]

You guys are pretty fickle though..... A week ago everyone wanted Baguley burnt at the stake for being a waste of a spot , one good game where the structure and midfield workrate allowed him to shine and he's indispensable!

If our structure and mid work rate is like that anyone can play the def fwd role.

Is done as a backman, was good as a defensive fwd. Earnt a few more weeks in the new fwd role. No Green.

 

[Cold Sober]

Johnny 'ONE WEEK' Worsfold strikes again.

 

[fishardansin]

**** off DERO, nobody is fooled by your alias.

You don't think there is just simply a groundswell of support for Green in our supporter base?

 

[Lore]

You don't think there is just simply a groundswell of support for Green in our supporter base?

Absinthe makes the heart grow fonder..

 

[Vindicater]

While I'm sad about Clarke not getting a gig, on the top of my head I can't think of blokes who I'd drop for him. Langford played a good game and needs time in the seniors, Laverde was poor but he needs seniors time.

If the choice was clarke vs mcgrath you take mcgrath. He's right there knocking on the door, he'll get a decent run.

100% I drop Lav this week compared to Clarke.

Clarke based on his VFL form deserved a sustained run at it.

 

[MarkG]

With Clarke going out it’d be nice to see Lav get a bit more time in the midfield.

He drifted between half back and half forward last week including through the midfield.

What does a guy like Redman (20yo 187cm - recruited as a midfield forward) need to do to get a game? Near 30 possessions and BOG in his last 2 games. Hard at the ball and straight kick including at goal.

Why is Laverde (22yo 191cm) such a protected species as a forward in the seniors. He had 8 possessions and 3 tackles and can't kick straight at goal? Is it his extra height and bulk? Doing a role mere mortals aren't noticing? Coaches pet?

They will happily drop Langford (21 yo 191cm 19 possessions 8 tackles) multiple times over. Can't recall Laverde ever getting dropped despite playing poorly many times, only injured.

Francis (20 years 193 cm) had 18 possessions and 9 tackles last week as well as 5 contested marks.

 

[hurlygurdy]

He drifted between half back and half forward last week including through the midfield.

What does a guy like Redman (20yo 187cm - recruited as a midfield forward) need to do to get a game? Near 30 possessions and BOG in his last 2 games. Hard at the ball and straight kick including at goal.

Why is Laverde (22yo 191cm) such a protected species as a forward in the seniors. He had 8 possessions and 3 tackles and can't kick straight at goal? Is it his extra height and bulk? Doing a role mere mortals aren't noticing? Coaches pet?

They will happily drop Langford (21 yo 191cm 19 possessions 8 tackles) multiple times over. Can't recall Laverde ever getting dropped despite playing poorly many times, only injured.

Francis (20 years 193 cm) had 18 possessions and 9 tackles last week as well as 5 contested marks.

You drop Laverde and he goes back to the VFL and kicks 6 goals. Then everyone shouts about why he cant be given a good run Laverde is too good for the VFL and everyone knows it. He needs to be played this year, particularly given it is looking like a development year for the team.
Mark my words, he will click in the next two weeks and will re-become the beloved saviour.

 

[MarkG]

You drop Laverde and he goes back to the VFL and kicks 6 goals. Then everyone shouts about why he cant be given a good run Laverde is too good for the VFL and everyone knows it. He needs to be played this year, particularly given it is looking like a development year for the team.
Mark my words, he will click in the next two weeks and will re-become the beloved saviour.

I don't believe he will kick 6 goals. He did it once.

 

[Howard Moon]

You drop Laverde and he goes back to the VFL and kicks 6 goals. Then everyone shouts about why he cant be given a good run Laverde is too good for the VFL and everyone knows it. He needs to be played this year, particularly given it is looking like a development year for the team.
Mark my words, he will click in the next two weeks and will re-become the beloved saviour.

well, that right there is the difference between being a good football player and an AFL standard football player

the difference between being too good for VFL and good enough for AFL is the fuzzy bridge they all need to cross at some point to make it.

You would expect your entire list should to be too good for VFL standard, its just a matter of which ones can make the final step which is the hardest.

But where is the best place to make that step? via dominating and developing in a grade they are better than or in the cut throat bright lights of the upper levels where winning matters?

maybe its a case by case basis, maybe that's where double standards upset fans.

 

[owen87]

He drifted between half back and half forward last week including through the midfield.

What does a guy like Redman (20yo 187cm - recruited as a midfield forward) need to do to get a game? Near 30 possessions and BOG in his last 2 games. Hard at the ball and straight kick including at goal.

Why is Laverde (22yo 191cm) such a protected species as a forward in the seniors. He had 8 possessions and 3 tackles and can't kick straight at goal? Is it his extra height and bulk? Doing a role mere mortals aren't noticing? Coaches pet?

They will happily drop Langford (21 yo 191cm 19 possessions 8 tackles) multiple times over. Can't recall Laverde ever getting dropped despite playing poorly many times, only injured.

Francis (20 years 193 cm) had 18 possessions and 9 tackles last week as well as 5 contested marks.

My best guess is that Laverde appears to be more explosive and attacks the contest with more aggression than Langford, plus has been hindered by injury.

Langford is the one that's always a bit stiff to be dropped, deserves a real run of games so we can see whether or not he'll make it. Think he's still got to grow in to his frame, but thought his game against Geelong was very positive.

Redman a little stiff at this point, injury the other week came at a bad time for him, but I'd hope to see him in over the next fortnight.

Brisbane presents an opportunity to play some younger guys, so hopefully we'll find a way for Clarke and Redman to come in.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

My best guess is that Laverde appears to be more explosive and attacks the contest with more aggression than Langford, plus has been hindered by injury.

Langford is the one that's always a bit stiff to be dropped, deserves a real run of games so we can see whether or not he'll make it. Think he's still got to grow in to his frame, but thought his game against Geelong was very positive.

Redman a little stiff at this point, injury the other week came at a bad time for him, but I'd hope to see him in over the next fortnight.

Brisbane presents an opportunity to play some younger guys, so hopefully we'll find a way for Clarke and Redman to come in.

Brisbane who just beat Hawthorn?

 

[eDPS]

He drifted between half back and half forward last week including through the midfield.

What does a guy like Redman (20yo 187cm - recruited as a midfield forward) need to do to get a game? Near 30 possessions and BOG in his last 2 games. Hard at the ball and straight kick including at goal.

Why is Laverde (22yo 191cm) such a protected species as a forward in the seniors. He had 8 possessions and 3 tackles and can't kick straight at goal? Is it his extra height and bulk? Doing a role mere mortals aren't noticing? Coaches pet?

They will happily drop Langford (21 yo 191cm 19 possessions 8 tackles) multiple times over. Can't recall Laverde ever getting dropped despite playing poorly many times, only injured.

Francis (20 years 193 cm) had 18 possessions and 9 tackles last week as well as 5 contested marks.

Have you even watched Laverde in the VFL? Ask anyone on here who are regular VFL watchers and they will agree that he is a class above that level. Laverde now has nothing to gain out of playing VFL football only to give him a kick up the ass if needed, he should play out the year in the seniors and if he is still getting the numbers he has been getting the past month by the end of the yearthen we either change his position or trade him.

 

[owen87]

Brisbane who just beat Hawthorn?

Brisbane with their younger bodies moreso; Hawthorn aren't all that good, we lost to them, but they were hardly impressive that day, we were just woeful.

Redman and Clarke are at no real disadvantage size / age wise than half that Brisbane list.

 

[Dons4days]

He drifted between half back and half forward last week including through the midfield.

What does a guy like Redman (20yo 187cm - recruited as a midfield forward) need to do to get a game? Near 30 possessions and BOG in his last 2 games. Hard at the ball and straight kick including at goal.

Why is Laverde (22yo 191cm) such a protected species as a forward in the seniors. He had 8 possessions and 3 tackles and can't kick straight at goal? Is it his extra height and bulk? Doing a role mere mortals aren't noticing? Coaches pet?

They will happily drop Langford (21 yo 191cm 19 possessions 8 tackles) multiple times over. Can't recall Laverde ever getting dropped despite playing poorly many times, only injured.

Francis (20 years 193 cm) had 18 possessions and 9 tackles last week as well as 5 contested marks.

I'd like to see him attend some centre bounces & use his aggression. I honestly believe that's where we'll get the most out of him.
I agree he's pretty lucky to be in the team but it seems like the coaches want to see what he can do with an extended stretch of games which he's never really had.

As for Redman, his time will come. He's only just started producing consistent football in the twos. He is definitely the kind of player we need & come the second half of the year I'd really like us to be rotating through all of these players to see what our team of the future looks like. I feel we need to head into 2019 with a very different 22 that started this year with the likes of Goddard, Bags, Dea & Ambrose out of the side.

I'd be disappointed if next years best 22 didn't consist of Redman, Francis, Ridley, Clarke & Parish with a few other obviously on the cusp.

 

[BrunoV]

He drifted between half back and half forward last week including through the midfield.

What does a guy like Redman (20yo 187cm - recruited as a midfield forward) need to do to get a game? Near 30 possessions and BOG in his last 2 games. Hard at the ball and straight kick including at goal.

Why is Laverde (22yo 191cm) such a protected species as a forward in the seniors. He had 8 possessions and 3 tackles and can't kick straight at goal? Is it his extra height and bulk? Doing a role mere mortals aren't noticing? Coaches pet?

They will happily drop Langford (21 yo 191cm 19 possessions 8 tackles) multiple times over. Can't recall Laverde ever getting dropped despite playing poorly many times, only injured.

Francis (20 years 193 cm) had 18 possessions and 9 tackles last week as well as 5 contested marks.

Well see what happens with Redman tomorrow. I'm relaxed about it because I don't think he's played as an inside mid before the third quarter last week. He also could hardly move in the last quarter so if they want to build his midfield game time so Redman can come in to the AFL side and play midfield that's fine. It might take another fortnight.

On another matter, it seems that far too many people just want to see new faces regardless of what they do. If there is a player on the list who just needs a decent run it's Laverde because he's genuinely at the point that he's just taking the piss to dominate VFL games (i.e. 25 clean touches, cant really be stopped physically, 5 tackles, 10 marks and three shots on goal primarily as a half forward). The pre-mature selection last year and the immediate selection this year once fit indicate that the coaches have been dying for the opportunity to give Laverde a long run in the seniors.

The point at which a player is dominating VFL matches and is noticeably a class above is the point at which coaches have to persist (it would seem that the coaches agree because they haven't penalized him for three underwhelming performances in a row). The goal kicking is moot. Plenty of players are horrible shots on goal or go through horrible patches and most of them come out of it, it's not as much a mark of performance as getting the shots on goal (not that Laverde would be priding himself on getting shots on goal in the AFL).

Langford is not far behind as someone who needs time to adapt to AFL level and Redman and Francis are certainly getting there and at this rate they'll play the round before the bye.

The changes make sense as long as Langford and Laverde get most of Clarke's midfield time. If the midfield time reverts to Zaharakis and Heppell, it would be a step back.

Clarke is a mile off where he needs to be to be doing nothing in a match, and make no mistake he did next to nothing against Geelong, and to be persisted with. If he peeled off 20 possessions and had an impact on the game, he'd have played another game or two.

The same rules do not apply for all kids on the list and they shouldn't.

 

[MarkG]

Have you even watched Laverde in the VFL? Ask anyone on here who are regular VFL watchers and they will agree that he is a class above that level. Laverde now has nothing to gain out of playing VFL football only to give him a kick up the ass if needed, he should play out the year in the seniors and if he is still getting the numbers he has been getting the past month by the end of the yearthen we either change his position or trade him.

If he marks the ball 30 metres out directly in front and misses after others bust their gut to get the ball to him .... and he has his regular 6-8 possessions and 3 tackles and looks lost, it will be incredibly disappointing... paticularly if it contributes to costing us the game.

Reckon reason why they continue playing is that he has only played 27 senior games and missed many more mainly due to injury. So getting more games into him to see if he can have a break out game. He is also on relatively big bucks.

Some guys play in the AFL and they look like they belong, such as Ridley and McGrath. Yet to see that in Laverde.

This game is our Grand Final so hope it is the correct decision.

 

[eDPS]

If he marks the ball 30 metres out directly in front and misses after others bust their gut to get the ball to him .... and he has his regular 6-8 possessions and 3 tackles and looks lost, it will be incredibly disappointing... paticularly if it contributes to costing us the game.

Reckon reason why they continue playing is that he has only played 27 senior games and missed many more mainly due to injury. So getting more games into him to see if he can have a break out game. He is also on relatively big bucks.

Some guys play in the AFL and they look like they belong, such as Ridley and McGrath. Yet to see that in Laverde.

This game is our Grand Final so hope it is the correct decision.

Some people seem to forget his first year where he actually looked pretty good late in the year, this is when i thought he belonged, ill be pretty confident that McGrath and Ridley will become better players to be fair.

 

[Mootsy]

What worries me about our list is that, do we have players that consistently take the game on? It seems like a lot of our list are reactionary, except for the usual reliable players. This really worries me and has since 2005.

In the late 90s we had players that would take the game on with real passion every single game and played like men around the contest.

I just don't know if we have that yet.

 

[Laverde2Smack]

He had 1 clearance and 9 disposals at 22%. We won the game because Stringer, Langford and Laverde where also able to hold their own against their direct opposition . Langford was really good with 6 clerances and nil against.

And his clearance went straight to the opposition

Sent from my F3115 using Tapatalk

 

[blitzer]

Well see what happens with Redman tomorrow. I'm relaxed about it because I don't think he's played as an inside mid before the third quarter last week. He also could hardly move in the last quarter so if they want to build his midfield game time so Redman can come in to the AFL side and play midfield that's fine. It might take another fortnight.

On another matter, it seems that far too many people just want to see new faces regardless of what they do. If there is a player on the list who just needs a decent run it's Laverde because he's genuinely at the point that he's just taking the piss to dominate VFL games (i.e. 25 touches, 5 tackles, 10 marks and three shots on goal primarily as a half forward). The pre-mature selection last year and the immediate selection this year once fit indicate that the coaches have been dying for the opportunity to give Laverde a long run in the seniors.

The point at which a player is dominating VFL matches and is noticeably a class above is the point at coaches have to persist (it would seem that the coaches agrees because they haven't penalized him for three underwhelming performances in a row). The goal kicking is moot. Plenty of players are horrible shots on goal or go through horrible patches and most of them come out of it, it's not as much a mark of performance as getting the shots on goal (not that Laverde would be priding himself on getting shots on goal in the AFL).

Langford is not far behind as someone who needs time to adapt to AFL level and Redman and Francis are certainly getting there and at this rate they'll play the round before the bye.

The changes make sense as long as Langford and Laverde get most of Clarke's midfield time. If the midfield time reverts to Zaharakis and Heppell, it would be a step back.

Clarke is a mile off where he needs to be to be doing nothing in a match, and make no mistake he did next to nothing against Geelong, and to be persisted with. If he peeled off 20 possessions and had an impact on the game, he'd have played another game or two.

The same rules do not apply for all kids on the list and they shouldn't.

If Laverde keeps playing at the level he played at against Geelong he'll be back playing VFL within 1-2 games. Frankly I haven't seen anything to get excited by so far. He's never shown a tank worthy of a midfield spot and he doesn't have the skills or forward nous to make it as a forward at AFL level. His kicking at goal is more than just a temporary drop of form, he's just a bad kick in general.

Clarke was probably dominating VFL even harder than Laverde considering he was the leading possession getter in the entire comp when he debuted. Plus he's 2 years younger and plays a position that we desperately need more of in terms of that inside midfielder. We have a really talented group of second year players in McGrath, Ridley, Begley, Mutch and Clarke, plus some handy 3rd years in Redman and Francis. There won't be spots for Laverde if he keeps playing at his current level.

 

[BrunoV]

If Laverde keeps playing at the level he played at against Geelong he'll be back playing VFL within 1-2 games. Frankly I haven't seen anything to get excited by so far. He's never shown a tank worthy of a midfield spot and he doesn't have the skills or forward nous to make it as a forward at AFL level. His kicking at goal is more than just a temporary drop of form, he's just a bad kick in general.

Clarke was probably dominating VFL even harder than Laverde considering he was the leading possession getter in the entire comp when he debuted. Plus he's 2 years younger and plays a position that we desperately need more of in terms of that inside midfielder. We have a really talented group of second year players in McGrath, Ridley, Begley, Mutch and Clarke, plus some handy 3rd years in Redman and Francis. There won't be spots for Laverde if he keeps playing at his current level.

I don't think Laverde would want to turn in one more performance of the quality of the last three. He might be able to survive to play in Dream Time, if he does, but that's about it. I don't think we can justifying carrying him for the rest of the year which has been suggested by others. It's possible that we're prepared to carry him to the bye and that this is being looked at as a pre-season of sorts (with the two week break giving him the chance to freshen up). He's clearly a highly regarded player because he's been a automatic inclusion once fit for the last two years.

Clarke was not dominating matches, not as a player who was noticeably a different class. There is a significant difference between playing good VFL football and looking too good for the competition - there are plenty of VFL players who can get 30 each week and who are not even considered as possible AFL players. I've got a really different perspective of performances to that which I had a few years ago because I've been able to compare the performances of players like Kavanagh, Aylett and O'Brien to the guys we have now and those three all played VFL footy at best.

For Clarke to be dominating VFL matches, with a 70:30 handball to kick ratio, he'd need to be looking like Clayton Oliver does in the AFL as far as I'm concerned. That's hitting the ball, usually at speed, busting out of congestion himself or absorbing body contact and clearing it out by hand and setting teammates off. He certainly hasn't been doing that with his possessions. He's scrapping away and he's been prolific but he needs to be more damaging with the possessions that he wins and if he gets there we'll know he'll make it. Langford's value for possession has generally been a lot higher than Clarke's has been.

Parish's game last week was similar to what Clarke has been doing, it was a good VFL performance but there was no reason to think that it would translate to anything close to dominant or even particularly effective in the AFL. Unless he pulls a performance 'out of the bag' Parish is looking at an extended run in the VFL, especially if Redman builds on his performance in the middle which was Judd-like for a quarter. Now, just to be absolutely clear, I'm not suggesting for a second that Redman would be Judd-like at AFL level, it's just to provide an insight into what he looked like at the lower level.

 

[DallasCrane316]

Sam Reid has been withdrawn from the GWS side. Replaced by Dylan Buckley.