Recommitted Joe Daniher 2019 [requested a trade to Sydney - didn't get there]

[Hawk_francais]

Good faith? Essendon said they want a player of a certain level from day 1 and that is what it would take to get to the table. Essendon did not deviate from this and Sydney knew this. How can you imply that they have operated in an unscrupulous manner? The premise of good faith is to operate in a honesty when dealing with another party, and it would appear that they were honest in their request of a player.

They said they wanted a player, and then complained that they weren’t offered pick 5. Seems like they were pretty determined to keep him unless they got exactly what they wanted. Anonymous article the other day from an another list manager suggested it was exactly why Essendon were difficult to deal with.

Having said all that, Sydney should’ve had a better plan in place. They knew what the demands were likely to be, and when you tell a player to nominate you’ve got a bit of a duty to facilitate the trade. When Hawthorn was in a similar situation with O’Meara they had a plan for the draft in case it all went belly up. More difficult when the player is contracted, but still poor form.

I don’t care about the Bombers and I like that they make poor decisions. I just feel sorry for Joe. The club has really mishandled his injury, but they’re once again asking him to commit to the same program that’s seen him miss 2 years. I’ve got my fingers crossed he walks next year.

 

[RobbieK]

We wanted a player in return. Dodo made it clear from the start. Same reason Papley for pick 9 didn't get done despite it being a more than fair offer - Sydney wanted Daniher to fill the hole and wouldn't trade Papley otherwise. Regardless, Sydney never even put pick 5 on the table so a deal was never gong to get done.

Papley for 9 didn't get done because Carlton never made that offer. They wanted Papley + 25 for 9. We aren't going to do that for a player in our leadership, leading goal scorer this year, fourth in our best and fairest and who is contracted until 2023. If they had made that offer than I expect we would have taken it even if the Daniher deal still didn't get done.

 

[RobbieK]

At first this was my read. Then it came out that the final offer was 9+ 2020 1st which is worse than 5 and 9.

So my conclusion is that Essendon let Sydney know a deal revolving around 5 or 9 would not get it done.

Who knows what Dodoro would have done if 5 and 9 was offered

Well, going by what you just said, Dodoro would have rejected it, having already let Sydney know that he was going to reject it, yeah?

 

[DrEvil_]

It’s understandable from the Swans side. But Essendon are risking a huge amount with this non-deal. As usual the collateral damage will only involve the culture of the club, the morale of the playing group, the and their ability to negotiate in good faith with other clubs in future.

Can't risk what you don't have.

 

[Loken]

I don’t care about the Bombers

Oh yes you do.

They said they wanted a player, and then complained that they weren’t offered pick 5

Wrong.
Not once did we complain we weren't offered pick 5.

Seems like they were pretty determined to keep him unless they got exactly what they wanted

Finally you are starting to catch on.

When Hawthorn was in a similar situation with O’Meara they had a plan for the draft in case it all went belly up. More difficult when the player is contracted, but still poor form.

You mean how you went crawling to Carlton in a frantic bid to get it done at the last second.

I don’t care about the Bombers

The club has really mishandled his injury, but they’re once again asking him to commit to the same program that’s seen him miss 2 years.

We have taken your Strength and conditioning guy and sacked our old one so are you saying that you have been following our program all along?

I don’t care about the Bombers

 

[evo]

Having said all that, Sydney should’ve had a better plan in place. They knew what the demands were likely to be, and when you tell a player to nominate you’ve got a bit of a duty to facilitate the trade.

Seems to me they had a decent plan in place. I think most people neutral to this trade think either #9 and next years first or 5+9 are pretty generous for a guy who's barely played in 2 years, albeit a good player. For all we know they may have even sounded out Adrian previous to trade week and got the impression it may work.

I'm just speculating here but I wouldn't be surprised if Essendon only decided to play really hard ball very late in the trade week. Perhaps after the players said they wanted him to stay? I usually go on what the Whisp says for all things Essendon ( and have learnt to read between the lines with him), and listen to SEN every morning when he is on, and there was a perceptable change in his attitude very late; in the last day or so where he was suddenly sure there would be no deal.

 

[smiddaz123]

So Essendon were requesting a player/players? Would love to know exactly which ones they were asking for.

If Sydney were will to offer a first round pick plus a future first, that's very, very generous. Huge laughs at Essendon fans claiming they were lowballed if that's accurate.

 

[citizen-erased]

this thread is funny

Daniher is a bomber
Nothing changes that.

Surely its time to go home until next year.

 

[RobbieK]

So Essendon were requesting a player/players? Would love to know exactly which ones they were asking for.

If Sydney were will to offer a first round pick plus a future first, that's very, very generous. Huge laughs at Essendon fans claiming they were lowballed if that's accurate.

It was claimed that around 6 names were raised, with Heeney and Blakey on that list (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...s-highly-as-essendon-did-20191016-p531f3.html). There is certianly no way we could have traded either of them.

We offered Papley and Jones, who both wanted to return to Victoria. They were rejected by Essendon. I'm really not sure what more the Swans could have reasonably done.

 

[Vindicater]

Well, going by what you just said, Dodoro would have rejected it, having already let Sydney know that he was going to reject it, yeah?

No.

My implication was that Essendon told Sydney early on that a deal revolving around 5 OR 9 would not be suitable. Not that both together would be declined.

My reasoning being if Dodoro told Sydney 5 and 9 would not be suitable why was Sydney's last offer a worse deal? (9 and 2020 1st)

This then marries up with the rumours of 5 and 25 earlier in the week being the offer.

Or Dodoro told them 5 and 9 would not get it done. I don't know, just spiralling ideas.

 

[Vindicater]

It was claimed that around 6 names were raised, with Heeney and Blakey on that list (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...s-highly-as-essendon-did-20191016-p531f3.html). There is certianly no way we could have traded either of them.

We offered Papley and Jones, who both wanted to return to Victoria. They were rejected by Essendon. I'm really not sure what more the Swans could have reasonably done.

We're they rejected by Essendon or did you offer two players who had already nominated other clubs.

Harley is in full damage control mode with the media at the moment.

 

[RobbieK]

No.

My implication was that Essendon told Sydney early on that a deal revolving around 5 OR 9 would not be suitable. Not that both together would be declined.

My reasoning being if Dodoro told Sydney 5 and 9 would not be suitable why was Sydney's last offer a worse deal? (9 and 2020 1st)

This then marries up with the rumours of 5 and 25 earlier in the week being the offer.

Or Dodoro told them 5 and 9 would not get it done. I don't know, just spiralling ideas.

"We didn't offer pick No.5. We were advised early on that No.5 and No.9 wouldn't get it done," Swans list manager Charlie Gardiner said.

Swans' best offer revealed as Dons promise to 'fight like hell' to keep Daniher

Joe Daniher will honour his contract and play out the 2020 campaign with Essendon after the forward missed out on his desired trade to Sydney.

7news.com.au

Unless Gardiner is lying or mistaken, then no, Essendon didn't say a deal based on 5 OR 9 was not going to get it done but that a deal of 5 AND 9 wouldn't get it done.

Edit to add:

Here it is direct from Dodoro

"We made it clear we weren’t interested in nine and five, we wanted players."

Joe Daniher wanted to go. Here’s what Essendon said when they told him he couldn’t

Joe Daniher wanted to go. Here’s what Essendon said when they told him he couldn’t

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[RobbieK]

We're they rejected by Essendon or did you offer two players who had already nominated other clubs.

Harley is in full damage control mode with the media at the moment.

According to Niall they were rejected by Essendon ("They (The Swans) offered both the unfortunate Papley and Zak Jones to the Bombers, who weren't interested in swapping a 200-centimetre key forward – who, if his body is right, can be a transformational player – for two players who were keen to play for Carlton and St Kilda respectively").

 

[HirdsTheWord]

The AFLPA might get involved and be anti essendon.

If they bombers dont let Joe leave to his state of choice again next season.

Aflpa getting involved trade process is good for no one.

Both Sydney and Essendon are operating within the AFL rules. Why should the aflpa get involved?

 

[Marcel Proust]

Aflpa getting involved trade process is good for no one.

Both Sydney and Essendon are operating within the AFL rules. Why should the aflpa get involved?

i can see similarities in the Jack Martin situation

if the dons are still playing funny buggers this time next season, not allowing Joe to leave for NSW then the AFLPA might have to make a stand, depending on the jack martin smoke

 

[HirdsTheWord]

According to Niall they were rejected by Essendon ("They (The Swans) offered both the unfortunate Papley and Zak Jones to the Bombers, who weren't interested in swapping a 200-centimetre key forward – who, if his body is right, can be a transformational player – for two players who were keen to play for Carlton and St Kilda respectively").

With all do respect that’s a ******* lazy effort from Sydney, lets just offer people who want to leave anyway? Didn’t even think of what essendon would be trying to replace.

If swans had offered 5+ mccartin Daniher would be in Sydney.

Granted I’m biased but I would think joe can see that Sydney didn’t put any real effort into getting him, hopefully that puts a bit of fire in his belly next year.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

i can see similarities in the Jack Martin situation

if the dons are still playing funny buggers this time next season, not allowing Joe to leave for NSW then the AFLPA might have to make a stand, depending on the jack martin smoke

No ones playing funny buggers? Sydney didn’t offer something that Essendon wanted. Both clubs operated within the rules.

Are you suggesting clubs are not allowed to retain players who want to leave contracts they sign? Even if they don’t get an adequate trade?

 

[RobbieK]

With all do respect that’s a ******* lazy effort from Sydney, lets just offer people who want to leave anyway? Didn’t even think of what essendon would be trying to replace.

If swans had offered 5+ mccartin Daniher would be in Sydney.

Granted I’m biased but I would think joe can see that Sydney didn’t put any real effort into getting him, hopefully that puts a bit of fire in his belly next year.

We don't know if McCartin was on the list of players that the Bombers would have accepted, so that is just speculation.

How many players there are in the league who would not get traded for two top 10 picks.

How many of them would still warrant those selections if they had only played 11 games in the last two years due to an ongoing injury concern?

 

[HirdsTheWord]

We don't know if McCartin was on the list of players that the Bombers would have accepted, so that is just speculation.

How many players there are in the league who would not get traded for two top 10 picks.

How many of them would still warrant those selections if they had only played 11 games in the last two years due to an ongoing injury concern?

You can’t just look at picks and think it’s a good deal year on year. Each draft is different.

There was no way Essendon can replace Daniher from the draft, so the picks are not as useful for us, hence we we don’t value them. The draft was weak from
5 onwards and generally all midfielders.

If this was last years draft we would have taken pick 5&9 because there was a Ben king type in play.

Of course speculation but surely mccartin was mentioned. I absolutely would have taken that deal.

 

[RobbieK]

You can’t just look at picks and think it’s a good deal year on year. Each draft is different.

There was no way Essendon can replace Daniher from the draft, so the picks are not as useful for us, hence we we don’t value them. The draft was weak from
5 onwards and generally all midfielders.

If this was last years draft we would have taken pick 5&9 because there was a Ben king type in play.

Of course speculation but surely mccartin was mentioned. I absolutely would have taken that deal.

Essendon were free to act as they did if they felt that they weren't able to adequately replace Daniher through a trade. I don't have a problem with that. I think they are probably not going to get a better offer next year, so it remains to be seen if holding out for what they wanted was a good call. Maybe Joe will decide to stay and it was. We don't know yet. I still think the Swans offer was a fair one in the circumstances and think that it would be the kind of offer that would get a deal done for just about any player in the league.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

yeah we lowball players and people at the trade table.....right

Swans are generally a good club
To deal with. Banter aside I have great respect for them

What should have happened with hindsight is the below, which would have been better for both clubs....which should have been behind closed doors...

- Daniher meets\calls with Harley who discuss the option of coming to Sydney
- joe reaches out to Essendon and tells them that he’s having issues and what’s to go north
- Sydney/Essendon discuss what will get a deal done and if Sydney can make it happen. This happens before joe nominates publicly
- if Sydney/Essendon can’t agree in principle a deal or at least identify what Essendon will settle as a minimum then joe waits for RFA which both clubs can prepare for.

There is absolutely no way joe should have nominated if Sydney were not aware of what dodoro wanted. It’s just embarrassing for everyone, mostly joe.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Essendon were free to act as they did if they felt that they weren't able to adequately replace Daniher through a trade. I don't have a problem with that. I think they are probably not going to get a better offer next year, so it remains to be seen if holding out for what they wanted was a good call. Maybe Joe will decide to stay and it was. We don't know yet. I still think the Swans offer was a fair one in the circumstances and think that it would be the kind of offer that would get a deal done for just about any player in the league.

I think it is is embarrassing for all of us that Sydney couldn’t even include our minimum request.

If essendon/Sydney had their time again I’m sure this all would have been done before joe even nominated, saving us all...mostly joe...an embarrassing trade period.

 

[Bollox]

^^ That one is now trying to tell Sydney how to trade. Gotta laff.
You barrack for Essendon matey.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

^^ That one is now trying to tell Sydney how to trade. Gotta laff.
You barrack for Essendon matey.

I’m also having a go at our club if you noticed.

Turn your blinkers off. No one came out of this trade looking good.

 

[carnthedons]

Essendon were free to act as they did if they felt that they weren't able to adequately replace Daniher through a trade. I don't have a problem with that. I think they are probably not going to get a better offer next year, so it remains to be seen if holding out for what they wanted was a good call. Maybe Joe will decide to stay and it was. We don't know yet. I still think the Swans offer was a fair one in the circumstances and think that it would be the kind of offer that would get a deal done for just about any player in the league.

Yeah that’s fair enough and I doubt there’d be more than 10 or so players you’d knock that deal back for but from a list structure point of view I’m ok with it. You know how many Key Forwards currently 25 or under have kicked at least 60 goals in a season? Just Joe. Hogan is next best with 47 as I’m not counting Stringer. He’s damn tough to replace and if he can get fit, the AFL will be richer for it, no matter the jumper he’s wearing.