List Mgmt. Player List Management 2019-20

Macca19

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Really good point you made about “most of the players come from interstate”

Last year the club posted a video of Ken speaking to Butters on draft night and it’s stuck with me.

Ken said, and I quote word for word, “we’re all Victorian boys...most of the boys we’ve got are [Victorian]”.

40 seconds in
Sure, maybe Kens just trying to make Butters feel comfortable? But I see as more evidence that Ken and the playing group have no idea what it means to be Port Adelaide.

All the honour for playing for the guernsey, all the respect for the tradition...gone.

I guess it’s not even Ken or the playing group’s fault - they didn’t grow up watching Port Adelaide. They’ve never been told what Port Adelaide is. Nor have they been sat down and been demanded of Port Adelaide standard.
I disagree with that
 

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Northalives

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There's rose coloured glasses....then there is whatever the hell this is.
I'm sick of this Macca. All this running around in circles trying to find out what the problem is, people saying we need to get rid of such and such and bring in such and such as if this will magically cure the bulls**t that the players dish up every other week when the answer is staring us in the face! Crack down on bulls**t from the players. Don't let them get away with any s**t. I have no doubt that we have a group of very talented players who just don't know what it means to be Port Adelaide and what is expected.

My beef with R.Gray is not that he's a talentless player, far from it, it's that he does s**t on a football field that should not be tolerated but he seems to get away with it and it is symptomatic of how low we have set the bar and how easy it is for players to get away with insulting performances as individuals and as a collective.

There are those around here that reckon that the sun shines out of the arse of certain players and they live in some lala land where if we just keep on going in the same direction, everything is going to miraculously just fall into place and we will be a Power. That's pretentious garbage Maca as is some statistic based categorisation of performances by individuals. Seeing is believing and I'm seeing s**t that leaves me dumfounded - s**t that would never have happened at Port Adelaide when we were a feared, relentless outfit.

We got rid of Russell Ebert in a display of nothing or nobody gets in the way of success at Port Adelaide and even though people say that this was a long time ago, times do change but standards must remain the same and right now, our standards have dropped so low, that even once savage Port Adelaide fans are excusing the coaches and the players.

One of my not so favourite people in later football life was Choco Williams and even he saw what happens when players become comfortable in a comforting environment: they lose their hunger and fear of losing and that is why he urged players to go out and get into the workforce part time to see what reality is like and to see how fortunate they are to be at Port, a fortunate life that just didn't happen, it came about because of hard graft, of work and sacrifice. We had a model which tended to reflect that way of doing things when some of our players who were not yet ready to play AFL, would spend 7 or 8 hours of their working week at suburban clubs where the reality of life in the "real" world was stark and it helped keep them on the straight and narrow. We gave that up of course, as well as all our structures and generations of Port Adelaide supporters to whom the players had to answer to after insipid performances so we could place them in a crèche at our club to protect them from the nasty world.

I'm sorry Macca for offending people but I was born Port Adelaide and I'm not going to shut up whilst we commit hara-kiri.
 

Northalives

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s**t posting Robbie Gray, this guy must be Sam Gray's dad.
Maybe those that post the truth about certain players actually watch and know the game and get fed up with the cult of personality bestowed upon players whose wonderful play is marvelled at (and with all justification) but whose atrocious, non-team, non football garbage is completely neglected. Why do you reckon we find ourselves being laughed at and ridiculed? It's because we kid ourselves that we are a tough, professional football team who, "at our best can beat anyone" bulls**t which completely ignores the fact that it is because of a lack of discipline and application that we aren't always at our best and beating everybody.

When is the last time we have been able to say that the opposition were better than us on the day and whilst losing is not acceptable, we did NOT dishonour the guernsey, the club? I can't remember, can you? The reason is because otherwise top players perform like circus clowns and no-one seems to care! It doesn't matter if it's R.Gray or O.Wines or T.Jonas or Motlop, Dixon ...... every single one of them must be held to account but in keeping with the "gold passes" of the past, the R.Grays of this world get away with s**t and if it's good enough for him, it's good enough for others and that's what I am having a go at.
 

Lawnchair Larry

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Apr 1, 2015
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going missing is his biggest knock!
Sam is a good at best honest footballer. plays well against the poor sides or when we are going good and goes missing when we need players to stand up.
right now he has some currency, perfect time to trade him and get some games into farrell, woodcock or better yet another tall.
Yep, he does go missing lots, but surprisingly I rated him as best against Brisbane, when the going got real tough.
Having said that when you're playing on the day with a team of bumbling klutzes, even the cloudiest diamond shines.
 

crafty_bernardo

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Jul 5, 2013
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Maybe those that post the truth about certain players actually watch and know the game and get fed up with the cult of personality bestowed upon players whose wonderful play is marvelled at (and with all justification) but whose atrocious, non-team, non football garbage is completely neglected. Why do you reckon we find ourselves being laughed at and ridiculed? It's because we kid ourselves that we are a tough, professional football team who, "at our best can beat anyone" bulls**t which completely ignores the fact that it is because of a lack of discipline and application that we aren't always at our best and beating everybody.

When is the last time we have been able to say that the opposition were better than us on the day and whilst losing is not acceptable, we did NOT dishonour the guernsey, the club? I can't remember, can you? The reason is because otherwise top players perform like circus clowns and no-one seems to care! It doesn't matter if it's R.Gray or O.Wines or T.Jonas or Motlop, Dixon ...... every single one of them must be held to account but in keeping with the "gold passes" of the past, the R.Grays of this world get away with s**t and if it's good enough for him, it's good enough for others and that's what I am having a go at.
Unfortunately not ...
 

Macca19

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Maybe those that post the truth about certain players actually watch and know the game and get fed up with the cult of personality bestowed upon players whose wonderful play is marvelled at (and with all justification) but whose atrocious, non-team, non football garbage is completely neglected. Why do you reckon we find ourselves being laughed at and ridiculed? It's because we kid ourselves that we are a tough, professional football team who, "at our best can beat anyone" bulls**t which completely ignores the fact that it is because of a lack of discipline and application that we aren't always at our best and beating everybody.

When is the last time we have been able to say that the opposition were better than us on the day and whilst losing is not acceptable, we did NOT dishonour the guernsey, the club? I can't remember, can you? The reason is because otherwise top players perform like circus clowns and no-one seems to care! It doesn't matter if it's R.Gray or O.Wines or T.Jonas or Motlop, Dixon ...... every single one of them must be held to account but in keeping with the "gold passes" of the past, the R.Grays of this world get away with s**t and if it's good enough for him, it's good enough for others and that's what I am having a go at.
There is no doubt Robbie plays for free kicks and i've spoken about it here a few times over the last couple of years. So on that note I do agree with you. The rest that he gets away with a lot of bull s**t, isn't correct. The guy has delivered time and time again and before this year had played a handful of below average games in 5 years, despite suffering significant personal set backs.

But lets not pretend that Sam Gray is the second coming of Tim Ginever here. To say he's never let us down, always goes in, when the game is on the line he delivers etc. is so far from the truth its insulting.
 

bomberclifford

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All the honour for playing for the guernsey, all the respect for the tradition...gone.

I guess it’s not even Ken or the playing group’s fault - they didn’t grow up watching Port Adelaide. They’ve never been told what Port Adelaide is. Nor have they been sat down and been demanded of Port Adelaide standard.
The club, like all clubs, has an induction process for new players and staff that talks to the club's history and the journey through to the AFL.

Not sure what you want Ken to say in that situation. In terms of new recruits, Butters has bought into the club 100% so the point is moot anyway.
 

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philthy05

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Even Robbie grays supposed ‘playing’ for frees is just a symptom of being the most scragged and held non-protected player in the league

He enjoys all the negatives that come with being a star damaging player like being targeted by the opposition and non of the benefits of being a star like being protected by the umps, or having the commentators point out when he’s being held or the football media highlighting his treatment.

This is thanks to port being a unglamorous lower profile interstate side with enemies in the media and Robbie gray being probably the quietest and most media shy off-field star the game has.
 

JUSTWORK

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Aug 25, 2013
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Even Robbie grays supposed ‘playing’ for frees is just a symptom of being the most scragged and held non-protected player in the league

He enjoys all the negatives that come with being a star damaging player like being targeted by the opposition and non of the benefits of being a star like being protected by the umps, or having the commentators point out when he’s being held or the football media highlighting his treatment.

This is thanks to port being a unglamorous lower profile interstate side with enemies in the media and Robbie gray being probably the quietest and most media shy off-field star the game has.
Just imagine if he got looked after the way Walters has this year.
 

S.Patrol.G

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Gibbs being linked to us.
on the cheap i still wouldnt!!

Id let ryder walk and keep both ladhams and frampton
Gibbs would like the odds on this before making a decision.

I cant see an opening for him in the best 22, but for the right price wouldn't say no.

Apparently half his problem is he doesn't get on with some of the leaders over there.
Half his problem is about 750K
 

Janey

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The club, like all clubs, has an induction process for new players and staff that talks to the club's history and the journey through to the AFL.

Not sure what you want Ken to say in that situation. In terms of new recruits, Butters has bought into the club 100% so the point is moot anyway.
I think Tim Giniver is involved in the induction process. No one would get out alive without hearing about our history and values.
 

Northalives

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There is no doubt Robbie plays for free kicks and i've spoken about it here a few times over the last couple of years. So on that note I do agree with you. The rest that he gets away with a lot of bull s**t, isn't correct. The guy has delivered time and time again and before this year had played a handful of below average games in 5 years, despite suffering significant personal set backs.

But lets not pretend that Sam Gray is the second coming of Tim Ginever here. To say he's never let us down, always goes in, when the game is on the line he delivers etc. is so far from the truth its insulting.
Nah no way, S. Gray is not the second coming of Timmy but do you actually watch S.Gray and the gut busting running and team orientated game he plays? He is just an honest footballer that gets the best out of his frame and talent.

R.Gray is an exceptional footballer who f***'s around when all he has to do is be disciplined and do the footballing thing and that is what I get riled about. In just about every game, at least 2 out of 3 games, he plays brilliantly most of the time and then does some horrific s**t that an amateur league footballer would not do: I know this is the frequency because I find myself going as spare at his fu***ng around as I go deliriously happy at his brilliant play and that is one thing that IS consistent at Port Adelaide - R.Gray's unfathomable backyard having-a-laugh bull s**t and that is not acceptable. It's not a new phenomenon and that is down to coach/coaches turning a blind eye. That should not be seen from any Port Adelaide player.

Players that allow the ball over their head when it is there to be marked, that's f***ing bulls**t! Players that let the ball run past them whilst trying shepherd an opponent instead of attacking the ball and being first to the ball is bull s**t and it doesn't matter what your name is, it's bull s**t and regardless of how brilliant you have played for the rest of the game, that does not excuse plain bull s**t lairising and if anyone wonders why we are as consistently unpredictable, it is because not only Robbie, but others keep doing non-professional, non-football actions. The difference with Robbie is that the rest of his game is great most of the time and his s**t tends to be smoothed over but when others stand around like tourists, just as Robbie did in the first half on the weekend, when other don't attack the ball and try to be first to the ball, as Robbie does quite often, when others don't go for the mark, when they lose their feet, when they try and perform circus tricks, they get criticised heavily and rightly so and it's just because they aren't in Robbies league that they get harangued. Unfortunately for Port Adelaide, we let things just go by without addressing them for fear of putting someone or others nose out of joint.

Do you understand what I'm saying Macca? At Port Adelaide, we did not put up with the type of stuff that Robbie still serves up on occasions and there is absolutely no excuse for it. I reckon this is Robbie's best year, at least his best for a very long time but I still can't and won't cop the undisciplined, lairiy bull s**t he dishes up at instances during a game where a conventional fundamental football skill is required.

Two other things Macca, I am not comparing Robbie to Sam talent wise and no offence to Sam, there no comparison but when it comes to performing football actions, that is basic, fundamental football actions that you learn from when you are in primary school, then Sam is more disciplined than Robbie and Sam has to be because he if he resorted to letting the ball go over his head when he could easily mark it, if he let the ball run past him instead of attacking it, if he played for frees instead of hitting the ball hard, if he didn't chase hard his direct opponent, if he made as many "clangers" as Roobie made then he would never get a game and neither would most others and that's the way it must be if we are dinkum about the "true Port Adelaide tradition". To be successful we must be hard on our players to make them better players, to make the team better.

Secondly Macca, everyone that is part of the Port Adelaide family rallies around our own and I/we have rallied around and supported Robbie during and after his significant personal set backs and as you said, they are personal. We are not talking about a players personal circumstances, we are talking about professional football and I am sure that Robbie and everyone else that has had a hard time of it in their personal lives would not want these circumstances to somehow convince the selectors to play him out of pity nor would he want special dispensation or forgiveness if he played a so so game because of his personal set backs.
 

Northalives

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STOP POSTING 🛑
T
O
P
Why? Are your sensibilities being hurt? What was wrong with saying that I reckon this is Robbies best year? This year he hasn't paddled the ball in front of him s**tting himself thinking that some **** was going to take him out - not once has he done that this year. This year he has actually bent his back and picked up the ball and if he cuts out his backyard s**t, he'll be even better!

If you can't handle people getting on here and pointing out things that maybe you haven't seen, then that's your problem. My "relationship" with R.Gray is bitter-sweet, I love him passionately sometimes, I hate his antics with a passion other times but one thing that I have always loved is Port Adelaide and I have every right to tell people what I see on the football field and if it horrifies them that someone has the nerve to say that such and such has this that or the other weekness in their game, then stiff s**t! I'm a Port Adelaide man, not a player "groupie".

Just as others have the right to tell me that they agree or don't agree or are ambivalent towards my observations, so have I the right to express my observations. At the very least I try and sight examples and I'm always willing to engage with those who have a contrary view and put forward examples - evidence to support their views.
 

El_Scorcho

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Why? Are your sensibilities being hurt? What was wrong with saying that I reckon this is Robbies best year? This year he hasn't paddled the ball in front of him s**tting himself thinking that some **** was going to take him out - not once has he done that this year. This year he has actually bent his back and picked up the ball and if he cuts out his backyard s**t, he'll be even better!

If you can't handle people getting on here and pointing out things that maybe you haven't seen, then that's your problem. My "relationship" with R.Gray is bitter-sweet, I love him passionately sometimes, I hate his antics with a passion other times but one thing that I have always loved is Port Adelaide and I have every right to tell people what I see on the football field and if it horrifies them that someone has the nerve to say that such and such has this that or the other weekness in their game, then stiff s**t! I'm a Port Adelaide man, not a player "groupie".

Just as others have the right to tell me that they agree or don't agree or are ambivalent towards my observations, so have I the right to express my observations. At the very least I try and sight examples and I'm always willing to engage with those who have a contrary view and put forward examples - evidence to support their views.
"Antics"?

You're posting as if he's Daniel Motlop or Hayden Ballantyne and not, you know, one of the top handful of players in the competition over the last 5 years.

Yes, Sam Gray is a good honest trier who gets the best out of his talent most of the time, but his talent quite often doesn't allow him to stay involved in big games for long enough to have an impact. Yes, he regularly gets the better of teams where his workrate is enough to beat them, but he also regularly gets shut out of games where his opponent is simply bigger and better than him.

This is the strangest comparison I can remember on this board since we had someone arguing in the Primus era that Boak should be dropped and Matt Thomas should hold his place because Matt Thomas is playing at his ceiling and Boak could be playing better.
 

Northalives

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"Antics"?

You're posting as if he's Daniel Motlop or Hayden Ballantyne and not, you know, one of the top handful of players in the competition over the last 5 years.

Yes, Sam Gray is a good honest trier who gets the best out of his talent most of the time, but his talent quite often doesn't allow him to stay involved in big games for long enough to have an impact. Yes, he regularly gets the better of teams where his workrate is enough to beat them, but he also regularly gets shut out of games where his opponent is simply bigger and better than him.

This is the strangest comparison I can remember on this board since we had someone arguing in the Primus era that Boak should be dropped and Matt Thomas should hold his place because Matt Thomas is playing at his ceiling and Boak could be playing better.
I agree with your assessment of S.Gray and S.Gray, like every other footballer in the "modern" game, can't be manic for every second of every minute of every game, it's impossible and that is why it's a team game. You know the saying, "when it's your turn to go, you have to go" and Sammy boy does but some others don't and if you are as committed as Sam, then you try to go again but as you point out, he's a human being, not a machine and he blows a gasket.

Like every other small bloke, if they are pitted against a much taller and heavier opponent, then they get beaten. When the team is firing on all cylinders, then Sam plays his role really well, when the team is struggling, he ain't no Russell Ebert that can take the game by the scruff of the neck and carry the rest of the team on his shoulders - it's stating the bleeding obvious really.

On R. Gray again, nah nah nah nah nah, he's not in the same universe as Daniel Motlop when it comes to "antics" but when I see Robbie NOT MARKING THE BALL (sorry for putting it in capitals and underlining it but I need to get this through to you) NOT MARKING THE BALL WHEN IT IS EXTREMELY POSSIBLE TO DO SO BUT INSTEAD, LETS IT GO OVER HIS HEAD SO IT CAN REACH ANOTHER PORT PLAYER SO HE CAN PLAY A "ONE-TWO" WITH HIM OR EVEN IF THERE ISN'T A TEAM MATE BEHIND HIM, HE DOES NOT MARK THE BALL SO HE CAN RUN ON TO IT, this is an "Antic" and goes against everything that footballers should do.

I won't use capitals again and no underlining but please understand the following: if the ball is bouncing your way and you are in front and in an excellent position to get to it first and take possession of it and have a snap, lay off a handball, kick it to your team mate or just lock it up and keep it in the area, then you go hard at the ball and get to it first! You don't shepherd the ball and hope it runs past you so you can double back on it and do the other things that you could have done so much easier and quicker if you had just hit the ball hard! You know what I mean? The over-the-head handball when there are other options; thankfully I can't remember to many of them this year if any at all.

Not marking the ball when you can is a cardinal sin in football, not attacking the ball hard and getting to it first when the odds are way in you favour is a cardinal sin in footy and Robbie is guilty of these sins too regularly for my liking - should never happen actually.

"This is the strangest comparison I can remember on this board since we had someone arguing in the Primus era that Boak should be dropped and Matt Thomas should hold his place because Matt Thomas is playing at his ceiling and Boak could be playing better." My comparison between S.Gray and R.Gray is that given R.Gray's far superior talent then he should at least do what the serviceable S.Gray does and that is the basics of football. That's the only comparison I was making. I am very embarrassed if I gave the impression that R.Gray should be dropped for S.Gray, that's just plain ridiculous. What I was saying was that for the good of the team and for Robbie as a player, his "Antics", as I described them earlier, must be taken out of his game and if that means dragging him, then do it. If he continues to do the same type of thing which lets him and his team down and which shows a lack of application and discipline, if he has been warned about those shenanigans but keeps doing them, then drop him. It will cause quite a stir but the line must be, "Robbie knows that there are somethings that we are not happy with that he must work on and Robbie being the utter professional that he is, understands and is getting on with it." There is the matter of not "marking a player" or chasing hard his direct opponent but they aren't "antics", that's just plain lazy/undisciplined or he isn't fit enough to do the chasing but I reckon he is.

To be the best, we must demand the best from our players and whether it's Robbie or anyone else that gets a bake, that's the way it has to be.

As for Thomas and Boak, that comment from whoever it was, was a bit silly, hey?
 

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