Autopsy Round 17, 2023 : Hawks go down to Giants

[Yardie]

If Day haq his time again.

He was in a rush. Almost played on initially then when back and went for the quick snap...just needed to settle, take a breath and slot it.

The best thing about what he did was that it was in a game in a season that doesn't matter. Better to learn that mistake now rather then later when it counts.

 

[Accipiter]

Hawthorn must've sensed a terrorist threat, and did their bit by trying to bring down every aircraft with the lack of sense to fly over the ground.

Yeah I noticed a lot of up & under kicks. I don't understand it considering that we are not exactly flushed with good overhead marks along the chain ... Surely we are not doing this by design.

 

[HawthornHawk]

As disappointed as I am with the result, you have to say we did pretty well against a much older and more experienced side.

 

[Delecate Des]

Fwiw, today ruled out finals probably

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Third best game of the season for Ned according to Champion Data.

Surprisingly the exact same amount of ranking points as Briggs last night.

Came in for a special mention from Sam in the post game press conference as well.

 

[hawk for 37]

Obvious to all about a few of our deficiencies.
One I was optimistic about at the start of the year was our small fwd stocks.
Bruest has done Bruest things and although he been quiet on occasion, he has performed his role and has continually scored goals.
Chad…enough said. He has however, provided a spark in the last 2 games. Something, but really, it’s over.
I was expecting Butler and Brockman though to pick up the reins this year but have been very disappointed.
Butler is young I know, however, I just can’t see it.
Brockman is turning out to be the biggest teaser on our list. You can see it, but is just not taking the moment(s) when they happen.

Throw in Moore’s below par season, and it has just hasn’t come together for the club.

Brockman and 3 for No. 1?

 

[grumbleguts]

Came in for a special mention from Sam in the post game press conference as well.

People who have no clue will continue to attack him as their special little whipping boy. Briggs probably the form ruck of the competition and he held his own despite what their single eye told them.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

People who have no clue will continue to attack him as their special little whipping boy. Briggs probably the form ruck of the competition and he held his own despite what their single eye told them.

I hate to play Devil's advocate but Briggs had a well rounded ruckmans game with 17 disposals, 5 marks, 28 hitouts and 432 meters gained. That's a good days work.

Reeves had 10 disposals, 0 marks, 24 hitouts and 16 meters gained. Not the worst but still not great (zero marks is not great).

Essentially the only aspect he held his own with Briggs was hitouts.

And Briggs is 23 before anyone replies with the familiar "yes but Reeves is only 24".

We will always break even at worst with Reeves in the hitouts but we are still losing out big time with his lack of influence around the ground.

I'm still not sold that he's going to make it, there are very few (any?) pure tap ruckman left in the leauge these days.

 

[grumbleguts]

I hate to play Devil's advocate but Briggs had a well rounded ruckmans game with 17 disposals, 5 marks, 28 hitouts and 432 meters gained. That's a good days work.

Reeves had 10 disposals, 0 marks, 24 hitouts and 16 meters gained. Not the worst but still not great (zero marks is not great).

Essentially the only aspect he held his own with Briggs was hitouts.

And Briggs is 23 before anyone replies with the familiar "yes but Reeves is only 24".

We will always break even at worst with Reeves in the hitouts but we are still losing out big time with his lack of influence around the ground.

I'm still not sold that he's going to make it, there are very few (any?) pure tap ruckman left in the leauge these days.

If our forward line and forward entries had any structure at all, he'd have been the most influential player on the field. Had our centre clearances bore the fruit they should have, we nail that game and it would have all been down to him.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

I hate to play Devil's advocate but Briggs had a well rounded ruckmans game with 17 disposals, 5 marks, 28 hitouts and 432 meters gained. That's a good days work.

Reeves had 10 disposals, 0 marks, 24 hitouts and 16 meters gained. Not the worst but still not great (zero marks is not great).

Essentially the only aspect he held his own with Briggs was hitouts.

And Briggs is 23 before anyone replies with the familiar "yes but Reeves is only 24".

We will always break even at worst with Reeves in the hitouts but we are still losing out big time with his lack of influence around the ground.

I'm still not sold that he's going to make it, there are very few (any?) pure tap ruckman left in the leauge these days.

Briggs was clearly the best ruck on the field.

Reeves had a poor/ineffectual first half. But to his credit he was better in the second half IMO; he fought his way into the contest.

Reeves' flaws are well documented now and if people can't see them then I don't know what they've been watching. IMO he is just never going to be an accomplished around the ground ruckman, so he really needs to provide an aerial presence (forward or back) at the least.

He's only taken 19 marks in 15 games this season, which is the biggest disappointment for mine.

Bridging the gap between his poor play (first half) and his better play (second half) throughout the course of a game should be a focus.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Briggs was clearly the best ruck on the field.

Reeves had a poor/ineffectual first half. But to his credit he was better in the second half IMO; he fought his way into the contest.

Reeves' flaws are well documented now and if people can't see them then I don't know what they've been watching. IMO he is just never going to be an accomplished around the ground ruckman, so he really needs to provide an aerial presence (forward or back) at the least.

He's only taken 19 marks in 15 games this season, which is the biggest disappointment for mine.

Bridging the gap between his poor play (first half) and his better play (second half) throughout the course of a game should be a focus.

Sicily takes 19 marks in a game and he is 20cm shorter than Reeves!

My main concern at his age this is probably pretty close to the finished product for Ned.

A good to very good tap ruckman but that's it. The question is whether that's enough these days when other teams have highly athletic, mobile rucks like Marshall, English, etc.

My thought is that it's obvious Sam really values the hitouts to advantage but I'm not so sure they compensate for the lack of influence around the ground.

 

[KermitJagger]

Don’t be sour because you have been called out.

Use it as an opportunity to improve your behaviour and word your responses a bit nicer to people.

No

 

[extractasam]

Tad off topic but did anyone else notice how bad the camera work in yesterdays game was? The amount of times the ball was totally out of the shot was astounding it was pissing me off not being able to see the *ing ball

 

[RX Hawk]

" hitouts to advantage"

Not really to our advantage most of the time. It seems opposition knows where he is hitting than team members.

 

[The Jet From Poowong]

I didn't see the game but just checked the stats.

Did Finn really keep Kelly to 6 disposals, whilst getting 15 himself?

Yep Fin did a bloody good job negating Kelly. 6 Disposals is amazing. And then to get the ball a bit himself was even better. We know his disposal is sub par. But his defensive effort in taking out the Giants no 1 distributor was first class.

 

[The Jet From Poowong]

Tad off topic but did anyone else notice how bad the camera work in yesterdays game was? The amount of times the ball was totally out of the shot was astounding it was pissing me off not being able to see the *ing ball

i think Fox must not be happy with just having commentators calling the game from a studio. So now they must be trialling remote camera work from a studio that is interstate.

 

[Kuuz]

Forward line has been much better when Kozi has played. Not sure what Sam Mitchell and selection are thinking. He's been there competing during our best wins. Otherwise, too many (what I call) soft fumbles when players are fumbling easy short passes or simple handballs. Happened quite a bit in the first half. Not merely perceived pressure. Poor skills.

Team has several holes to plug and whilst there are some good signs from a few young players there is a long way to go. Need to be very active during trade period. I also expect that we might see some surprise departures although I'm having trouble reading Sam Mitchell's thinking. Neverthless, will be interesting to see what happens.

RE: Forward line & Kozi

I would probably guess Mitch is reading the writing on the wall a bit.

Kozi does structurally make us better, but also has so many deficiencies that he also caps our ceiling to an extent. With nothing to lose this season, and desperate to get some points of difference, I'd say he's experimenting with an already underperforming forward line.

With that in mind, the way Ryan marks and positions himself in Box Hill, I reckon he is VERY close to his debut. He is exactly what we need in a get out mark. We got dominated again in that part of play, where Taylor, Briggs, Idun, Himmel etc. just kept plucking marks when we bombed it out of defence under pressure.

RE: Scrimshaw

Finally, thought Scrimshaw was one of our worst. He's just not a back-shoulder defender - his first half was abysmal. The amount of times he was in no mans land and lost his direct opponent was really damaging. I counted 3 goals directly against him because he allowed his man to find space behind him and Scrim was not watching the lead. Just super disappointing.

Scrim is great as a half back flanker or can even be decent as a +1, but where he's currently being deployed, I worry he's just going to get dropped. He could become trade bait even, as we have better profiles in the half back positions (Mitch clearly wants pace, run and athleticism) and +1 is not getting a look in. It's a head scratcher as I love the bloke - guy looks like a Birchall regen at times.

 

[grumbleguts]

Tad off topic but did anyone else notice how bad the camera work in yesterdays game was? The amount of times the ball was totally out of the shot was astounding it was pissing me off not being able to see the *ing ball

They flew the Sky sports cameramen from England over for the match.

 

[Dr.J]

Scrimshaws biggest problem at the moment is his hands.
Didn’t look like taking an intercept mark let alone a contested one.
Second grabs even the loosest of ground balls as well.
Perhaps a trip to the optometrist may be in order.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

One thing about the game, you'd swear that we were coming off a flag and the giants were struggling given the commentary.
You'd never hear them be so dull if the room took it up to a team pushing the 8

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Scrimshaws biggest problem at the moment is his hands.
Didn’t look like taking an intercept mark let alone a contested one.
Second grabs even the loosest of ground balls as well.
Perhaps a trip to the optometrist may be in order.

It’s quite perplexing as in years past he has always been a really good (bordering on very good/elite) intercept mark.

I can’t help but feel he knows he is on the outer with Sam and it’s affecting his confidence knowing he is probably under the pump every week to keep his spot. Even his disposal isn’t as reliable as it used to be and he has always been an excellent kick.

It’s a pity as I always felt that when Scrimmers is in full flight we always look a much better team (similar to CJ in that regard).

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Sicily takes 19 marks in a game and he is 20cm shorter than Reeves!

My main concern at his age this is probably pretty close to the finished product for Ned.

A good to very good tap ruckman but that's it. The question is whether that's enough these days when other teams have highly athletic, mobile rucks like Marshall, English, etc.

My thought is that it's obvious Sam really values the hitouts to advantage but I'm not so sure they compensate for the lack of influence around the ground.

Yeah I don't think it does compensate.

If you're not a pseudo midfielder like English, Grundy or Cameron then you better be a physical presence like Gawn, Goldy, Darcy, Witts, Marshall (all of which get touches and compete in the air too). Reeves is neither currently. I think Meek has more chance of becoming the kind of ruck, but he's probably even more inconsistent.

 

[Brant]

Yep Fin did a bloody good job negating Kelly. 6 Disposals is amazing. And then to get the ball a bit himself was even better. We know his disposal is sub par. But his defensive effort in taking out the Giants no 1 distributor was first class.

And Nash did a job on Green, keeping him to 17 possies + 1 clearance, whilst collecting 27 + 5 clearances of his own?

 

[hawkman]

Tad off topic but did anyone else notice how bad the camera work in yesterdays game was? The amount of times the ball was totally out of the shot was astounding it was pissing me off not being able to see the *ing ball

That and their fascination with camera shots of coaches and the bench was annoying me