Tony Lockett was better than Wayne Carey or Ablett Snr

[Monkey King]

I'd call it a dead heat as far as full backs go, with each being elite and well adapted to the game style of their era. I think SOS was the better all round player because he could play forward too.

SOS was far more versatile. Could take Dunstall at FB, Carey at CHB, Hird in the midfield and kick 10 up forward. He was a better fullback IMO, one on one, head to head, I'd rather no other I've seen, but I understand that's an arguable proposition for some. As a footballer though, it's not even close.

 

[My Tilly]

im biased of course and in the ‘Scarlett >>> SOS’ camp as far as fullbacks go but SOS was still a hell of a player and unlike the other good fullbacks of that era he didn’t just have his skills and smarts to help him against Ablett, he was one who actually had the athletic ability to match up on him which is why IMO he was the one who had reasonable success against him.

Silvagni never matched up on Ablett in the 80's.
I believe the first time they actually went head2head was 1994
Up until then, it was always the likes of Doull (only played him one time) Dean, Alvin, Rhys-Jones, Hannah, Da Rui and then Silvagni.
By 1994, Ablett was still very athletic but his vertical leap was not the same. He used his body a lot more and of course, Silvagni at 194cm and 95kg was in his element.

 

[HardcoreGeelongFan]

Does OP mean a better person or player because Lockett was not a better player

 

[footyfan1978]

Silvagni never matched up on Ablett in the 80's.
I believe the first time they actually went head2head was 1994
Up until then, it was always the likes of Doull (only played him one time) Dean, Alvin, Rhys-Jones, Hannah, Da Rui and then Silvagni.
By 1994, Ablett was still very athletic but his vertical leap was not the same. He used his body a lot more and of course, Silvagni at 194cm and 95kg was in his element.

Silvagni also did not have the same vertical leap like he had when he took mark of year in 88. Had some lower leg injury at some point so had to adapt his play a bit towards second half of his career. I do not recall either of them as direct opponents too much before the mid 90's. They had a good duel in a real high quality home and away match at Princes Park in 94 or 95 and obviously the 95 grand final where Ablett was humbled without getting a goal but do not recall to many other times. SOS played at lot more head to head against Carey and Lockett as like SOS there were pure key position players. Ablett was wing and half forward before later playing more often full forward so certainly less head to heads. I remember Hanna and Ablett playing a lot on each other.

 

[Monkey King]

Silvagni also did not have the same vertical leap like he had when he took mark of year in 88. Had some lower leg injury at some point so had to adapt his play a bit towards second half of his career. I do not recall either of them as direct opponents too much before the mid 90's.

Yeah they started matching up when Ablett became Geelong's permanent full forward, which was around the same time SOS became Carlton's dedicated FB.

SOS did his ACL in 1991, the year after nearly winning the Brownlow from CHB. He never came back quite the same as before the knee. Returned in 92' and was hampered by ankle injuries all season, playing forward and back until he took FB duties towards the end of the season, which from 93' onwards became his mainstay, unless needed up forward, or when matching against North (Carey) and Essendon (Hird) he'd move out to CHB and follow them everywhere.

 

[footyfan1978]

Yeah they started matching up when Ablett became Geelong's permanent full forward, which was around the same time SOS became Carlton's dedicated FB.

SOS did his ACL in 1991, the year after nearly winning the Brownlow from CHB. He never came back quite the same as before the knee. Returned in 92' and was hampered by ankle injuries all season, playing forward and back until he took FB duties towards the end of the season, which from 93' onwards became his mainstay, unless needed up forward, or when matching against North (Carey) and Essendon (Hird) he'd move out to CHB and follow them everywhere.

Glad you reminded me of that stuff in early 90's as could not remember all the injuries that took some time of his career. ACL, * forgot that one. Remember the ankle injuries more and glandular fever he had early in his carer. Also well remember the hamstring ripped from bone in 2000 semi-final that sunk my season hopes there and then. But the ACL totally missed. Just remember as 90's went on he tended not to go for big leaps anywhere. He still do his amazing crazy acrobatic dives but leaping he virtually he kept to minimum. He was quite unique in it did not matter where the opposition had a star full forward or centre half forward, it was a no brainer to have SOS on them unless he was needed up forward. Which did not need to happen too much with Sticks rarely injured. Think he would have played more often centre half back if not for those injuries. Remember nearly won Brownlow from there.

I rate the great forwards of his time by if they could have good duels with SOS. It is why I rate Lockett the best full forward I seen as he and SOS often would have really good one on one duels. One of them would win the duel every once in awhile but a lot of times it was even contest with no clear winner. Did not rate Carey as high as most times he was beaten by SOS more clearly. He still best centre half forward I seen though.

 

[Dipper]

im biased of course and in the ‘Scarlett >>> SOS’ camp as far as fullbacks go but SOS was still a hell of a player and unlike the other good fullbacks of that era he didn’t just have his skills and smarts to help him against Ablett, he was one who actually had the athletic ability to match up on him which is why IMO he was the one who had reasonable success against him.

Ablett saw it a bit differently. When asked what he thought about SOS making TOTC he simply replied that he thought Langford was a better player.

On moto g(7) using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Thetrader15]

If I'm picking a team, I take Carey first. He wins finals off his own boot (except 97 ), could play a variety of positions, good one the lead, one on one, and going back into the pack. Week in week out, never played a bad game.

Plugga was the best FF (although I think Dunstall the most naturally gifted), while Ablett the most unstoppable on his day. As I recall, he was less consistent

 

[Chubberson]

Players like Plugger and Tross transcend their respective clubs.

put your club-coloured glasses down, how many goals does Plugger kick on Rance?
For me a few, because he comes from another era Plugger would sink a few surprise elbows in, reducing Rance's effectiveness. After that it depends on delivery, bombed in high, Rance cleans him up, but lowering the eyes to Plugger on the lead...unstoppable.

Plugger would rag doll rance. Tarrant would do better on him.

 

[footyfan1978]

and still get rag dolled, just not as badly.
Harris Andrews would at least not get rag dolled but just soundly beaten.

 

[woota]

Ryan O'Connor did not get rag dolled by plugger

 

[PhatBoy]

Ablett saw it a bit differently. When asked what he thought about SOS making TOTC he simply replied that he thought Langford was a better player.

On moto g(7) using BigFooty.com mobile app

the point was well made earlier in the thread in response to my post that he wouldn’t have matched up directly on SoS until very late in his career too which is fair and in that era when he went to full forward he didn’t struggle hugely:
3,6,4,5,5,3,3 before he was goalless in the 95 decider and then kicked one in his final ever match against them.

 

[My Tilly]

never played a bad game.

Sure he did.
Took him a few years to finally get a regular game and cement his spot down forward.
Went goalless in 3 of the 23 finals played.
Had an absolute stinker in the 98 final series.

 

[Sttew]

Sure he did.
Took him a few years to finally get a regular game and cement his spot down forward.
Went goalless in 3 of the 23 finals played.
Had an absolute stinker in the 98 final series.

Yeah but when else did he play a bad game

 

[Monkey King]

the point was well made earlier in the thread in response to my post that he wouldn’t have matched up directly on SoS until very late in his career too which is fair and in that era when he went to full forward he didn’t struggle hugely:
3,6,4,5,5,3,3 before he was goalless in the 95 decider and then kicked one in his final ever match against them.

Yes that point has been made. SOS played in different positions and a lot at CHB when he did an ACL. Played all over the place in his injury riddled comeback season in 92' before settling at FB, from whence he became Carlton's mainstay, around the same time Ablett made FF his home. It's no surprise that this is when they started matching up on each other.

The series from what I can ascertain goes 3, 5, 4, 0, 3, 1

3 goals in 94' was bookmarked by Ablett kicking 19 goals over the previous two games and 17 goals over the following two. In the middle of purple patch he bumped into SOS and was halted - yes 3 goals was putting the stops on Ablett in 93' and this return against the Blues was his lowest for the season.

5 goals in 94' was a rare win to Ablett. Shocking game from a Carlton perspective with the game over at half time and the ball flowing into the Geelong forward line like water down a hill.

(Ablett's 6 goals in the 94' Semi aren't included, SOS was injured early in the first quarter. A scary reminder to Carlton supporters at the time of what facing Ablett without Silvagni looked like.)

4 goal game in 95' was a cracking game and a terrific contest between two champs. SOS troubled Ablett most of the day, but master snr snagged 3 goals in about 10 mins in the 3Q. Again, the game was bookmarked btw two 8 goal games for Ablett. Colours (brilliant as they were) were lowered.

0 goals, well we all know about that one. Hadn't gone goalless since 92'. Cats and player were dominated.

3 goals and the single goal last time they matched up.


You can look at Ablett kicking 3 goals from a modern perspective and think that's a respectable return, but that's just not the way it was. For an amazing player who could kick 8 standing on his head, holding him to just a handful of goals was a bloody big win. SOS record against Ablett is outstanding.

Herne Hill Hammer ... mate plz count this also as a reply to a post of yours made around Xmas that I didn't have time to get back to

 

[My Tilly]

the more you look at it, the more I actually think Silvagni was greatest defender ever. To contend with all the greats forwards and not just hold his own, but often break even or beat them, it's not something many were successful at. For Silvagni, he relished the challenge.

 

[Thrawn]

the more you look at it, the more I actually think Silvagni was greatest defender ever. To contend with all the greats forwards and not just hold his own, but often break even or beat them, it's not something many were successful at. For Silvagni, he relished the challenge.

Which is why I tried not pissing myself with laughter when all those Richmond supporters on the Rance thread touted him as the greater FB.

 

[footyfan1978]

the more you look at it, the more I actually think Silvagni was greatest defender ever. To contend with all the greats forwards and not just hold his own, but often break even or beat them, it's not something many were successful at. For Silvagni, he relished the challenge.

I think Doull was best defender ever.

If he got to play on Carey too, would have been fun to see.

 

[Evolved1]

Playing defense is far easier than playing forward roles in Aussie rules, which is why I'd argue that Ablett was a significantly better player than Silvagni, and Carey likewise was a significantly better player than Glen Jackovich regardless of the outcome of their one on one duels.

 

[footyfan1978]

Playing defense is far easier than playing forward roles in Aussie rules, which is why I'd argue that Ablett was a significantly better player than Silvagni

Given SOS could easily play full forward well and Ablett s**t down back, you showing some real ignorance with such a simple minded statement. Easier to have ball kicked to your advantage than trying to defend against it is something that could be said too. Football ability means being good at more than just one part of the game. Both are fantastic footballers. One of them got humbled against the other on biggest stage too.....but given playing against a champ, that can happen.

 

[Evolved1]

Given SOS could easily play full forward well and Ablett s**t down back, you showing some real ignorance with such a simple minded statement. Easier to have ball kicked to your advantage than trying to defend against it is something that could be said too. Football ability means being good at more than just one part of the game. Both are fantastic footballers. One of them got humbled against the other on biggest stage too.....but given playing against a champ, that can happen.

If you're arguing that SOS was a better footballer than God, that's the height of ignorance; no offense, but I don't debate self-evident truths.

 

[footyfan1978]

If you're arguing that SOS was a better footballer than God, that's the height of ignorance; no offense, but I don't debate self-evident truths.

God scored zero goals on the biggest stage against the great man.
You are the one arguing the guy that got humbled on the biggest stage against the other is "significantly better"
I on other hand think they were both great footballers.
What a blessing to see them both live.

 

[Evolved1]

God scored zero goals on the biggest stage against the great man.
You are the one arguing the guy that got humbled on the biggest stage against the other is "significantly better"
I on other hand think they were both great footballers.
What a blessing to see them both live.

I agree wholeheartedly. SOS was a gun too.

 

[woota]

Given SOS could easily play full forward well and Ablett s**t down back, you showing some real ignorance with such a simple minded statement. Easier to have ball kicked to your advantage than trying to defend against it is something that could be said too. Football ability means being good at more than just one part of the game. Both are fantastic footballers. One of them got humbled against the other on biggest stage too.....but given playing against a champ, that can happen.

Well if you're using versatility as the measure of how good a player was, then plugger must have been a dud as he couldn't have played anywhere other than full forward because of how heavy he was and his lack of fitness compared to other players. Ablett was no good in the back line? Well Jackovich wasn't so great the handful of times he played as a forward so I guess he was no good either. Tony Liberatore must be no good because he couldn't play as a ruckman?

 

[footyfan1978]

Well if you're using versatility as the measure of how good a player was, then plugger must have been a dud as he couldn't have played anywhere other than full forward because of how heavy he was and his lack of fitness compared to other players. Ablett was no good in the back line? Well Jackovich wasn't so great the handful of times he played as a forward so I guess he was no good either. Tony Liberatore must be no good because he couldn't play as a ruckman?

Your comprehension so bad it is funny.
Libba would have made an awesome ruck....