Opinion VICBias - Genuine Discussion

[The 747]

Great to see you have conceded the AFL is biased towards Vic teams.




We have a lot of work to do.

Marquee time slots - You get FTA into your home state, Vic teams don't. In any event, broadcasters control that. Bigger clubs mean higher ratings. Some Vic teams get shafted far more.
National broad games - Same point repeated. Some Vic teams get shafted far more.
Percentage of home grown talent on your list - Develop some WA talent then. Vic does all the heavy lifting. Put funding and attention into WA football. Where does all the money WA boasts about go?
Friday night games - This is the same point repeated three times, are you running out of ideas?
AFL GF - AFL could easily sell the next 100 years after 2055 (or what ever the date is) to WA and SA and then see what happens Already done to death and acknowledged in my post.
Percentage of umpires, and AFL officials based in each state (90% Victorian) - I would be interested to see umpires stats, but head office is in Victoria. Chairman is from WA, last CEO from SA.
The fact the AFL has created a 2nd tier comp that features all clubs, except those from SA and WA, but we pay for it. Don't SA and WA want to keep their own competitions? How does SA and WA pay for the reserves?

I don't see much of substance here.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Percentage of home grown talent on your list - Develop some WA talent then. Vic does all the heavy lifting. Put funding and attention into WA football. Where does all the money WA boasts about go?

Give us priority access, and we will.

We already fund the WAFL. AFL does * all.

AFL funds VFL juniors.

The fact the AFL has created a 2nd tier comp that features all clubs, except those from SA and WA, but we pay for it. Don't SA and WA want to keep their own competitions? How does SA and WA pay for the reserves?

Did anyone bother to ask.

Fremantle and West Coast pay the WAFL 2-3 million a year to stay in the WAFL.

Marquee time slots - You get FTA into your home state, Vic teams don't. In any event, broadcasters control that. Bigger clubs mean higher ratings. Some Vic teams get shafted far more.

Bull s**t.

Broadcasters do not demand the match broad cast in Victoria, is broad cast nationally.

They do not control who gets Easter Monday, Anzac day fixtures etc etc

ercentage of umpires, and AFL officials based in each state (90% Victorian) - I would be interested to see umpires stats, but head office is in Victoria. Chairman is from WA, last CEO from SA.

You have already conceded the AFL is vic biased.

Surely, have all AFL positions availabled in all states - SA, WA, Vic, NSW, QLD would help everyone.

 

[mcgarnacle]

Sure but all of this is an opinion and not provable. In theory lower placed clubs have more salary cap to spend.

I also haven't noticed any kind of issue with non-Vic clubs attracting or retaining players:

Port picked up half a spine last year, rarely lose anyone they want.

Eagles almost never lose any players they want. Ditto Brisbane and Sydney.

Crows have picked up Dawson and Rankine who are premium players.

Freo have an issue with player retention but that has a bit to with recruitment IMO, tend to have lots of the same type if player.

Theory is flawed by a salary cap floor.

There seems to be this belief among supporters that a club such as North are using much less of their TPP than Collingwood (using the premiers as an example).

In reality, a club still needs to use at least 95% of its TPP. In 2022 dollar terms, the TPP is $13,540,000, and every club needs to use $12,863,000 of that, even if their list isn't worth it.

So every club has a similar amount of money to spend on FA's or retaining players each season. Some clubs do better in this regard because they have prestige - in a window, have good training facilities, get big crowds, have tradition, play marquee matches, or based in a good location.

 

[The 747]

Theory is flawed by a salary cap floor.

There seems to be this belief among supporters that a club such as North are using much less of their TPP than Collingwood (using the premiers as an example).

In reality, a club still needs to use at least 95% of its TPP. In 2022 dollar terms, the TPP is $13,540,000, and every club needs to use $12,863,000 of that, even if their list isn't worth it.

So every club has a similar amount of money to spend on FA's or retaining players each season. Some clubs do better in this regard because they have prestige - in a window, have good training facilities, get big crowds, have tradition, play marquee matches, or based in a good location.

Agree this is going way back to when Fitzroy way underpaid the cap. Two problems though, the AFLPA won't agree to a change (why would they) and the AFL execs are oblivious to it.

 

[The 747]

You have already conceded the AFL is vic biased.

I tried to have a genuine discussion and this is what you post. Bye.

 

[go_the_dockers]

I tried to have a genuine discussion and this is what you post. Bye.

WA and SA do not have traditional clubs, but anyway I'll concede the academy point.

Was this you not conceding my point, that AFL NGA systems was VICBIASED?

 

[Carringbush2010]

Money Money Money is the answer but it only helps out one state that money and hence why it never gets discussed or looked at.

Gets discussed in every vic bias thread all the time.

it has been like this for decades and it won't change until the priority of the league is the competition first and money second

That's human kind in general, not just the AFL or sporting competitions.

 

[clivenator26]

Here is the last 23 premierships.

Notice that a non vic side wins a few in Brisbane, they lose COLA.
Sydney win 2, they lose COLA.
Port won 1, with a core team of there foundation squad.

Vic teams dominate, they keep all the advantages they have.

2001	Brisbane Lions​	15.18 (108)	Essendon​	12.10 (82)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	91,482	29 September 2001​
2002	Brisbane Lions (2)​	10.15 (75)	Collingwood​	9.12 (66)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	91,817	28 September 2002​
2003	Brisbane Lions (3)​	20.14 (134)	Collingwood​	12.12 (84)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	79,451	27 September 2003​
2004	Port Adelaide​	17.11 (113)	Brisbane Lions​	10.13 (73)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	77,671	25 September 2004​
2005	Sydney (4)​	8.10 (58)	West Coast​	7.12 (54)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	91,828	24 September 2005​
2006	West Coast (3)​	12.13 (85)	Sydney​	12.12 (84)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	97,431	30 September 2006​
2007	Geelong (7)​	24.19 (163)	Port Adelaide​	6.8 (44)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	97,302	29 September 2007​
2008	Hawthorn (10)​	18.7 (115)	Geelong​	11.23 (89)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	100,012	27 September 2008​
2009	Geelong (8)​	12.8 (80)	St Kilda​	9.14 (68)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	99,251	26 September 2009​
2010	Collingwood (15)​	9.14 (68)	St Kilda​	10.8 (68)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	100,016	25 September 2010​
16.12 (108)	7.10 (52)	R	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	93,853	2 October 2010​
2011	Geelong (9)​	18.11 (119)	Collingwood​	12.9 (81)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	99,537	1 October 2011​
2012	Sydney (5)​	14.7 (91)	Hawthorn​	11.15 (81)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	99,683	29 September 2012​
2013	Hawthorn (11)​	11.11 (77)	Fremantle​	8.14 (62)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	100,007	28 September 2013​
2014	Hawthorn (12)​	21.11 (137)	Sydney​	11.8 (74)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	99,454	27 September 2014​
2015	Hawthorn (13)​	16.11 (107)	West Coast​	8.13 (61)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	98,633	3 October 2015​
2016	Western Bulldogs (2)​	13.11 (89)	Sydney​	10.7 (67)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	99,981	1 October 2016​
2017	Richmond (11)​	16.12 (108)	Adelaide​	8.12 (60)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	100,021	30 September 2017​
2018	West Coast (4)​	11.13 (79)	Collingwood​	11.8 (74)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	100,022	29 September 2018​
2019	Richmond (12)​	17.12 (114)	Greater Western Sydney​	3.7 (25)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	100,014	28 September 2019​
2020	Richmond (13)​	12.9 (81)	Geelong​	7.8 (50)	GF	The Gabba​	29,707	24 October 2020​
2021	Melbourne (13)​	21.14 (140)	Western Bulldogs​	10.6 (66)	GF	Optus Stadium​	61,118	25 September 2021​
2022	Geelong (10)​	20.13 (133)	Sydney​	8.4 (52)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	100,024	24 September 2022​
2023	Collingwood (16)​	12.18 (90)	Brisbane Lions​	13.8 (86)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	100,024	30 September 2023​

I think you have some great arguments but also some not so great, Port had 8 premiership players that were in their inaugural squad.

 

[Carringbush2010]

So the narrative is

Vic players want to go home, oh the humanity.

Big vic clubs get all the tv and crowd attention, for obvious reasons, so those that oppose this, what are your solutions so that these big clubs get less attention? Here's one, start making more population.

Too many vic players, yep and?

Probably as a result of having more population combined than all the other footy states and territories combined.

We had a secret meeting like a couple hundred years (before footy was discovered) ago to make sure we had more footy interested public than all the other states to ensure Vic bias - because we collectively hate you all so much.

This is the sort of belief of the conspiracy theorists on here.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

So the narrative is

Vic players want to go home, oh the humanity.

Big vic clubs get all the tv and crowd attention, for obvious reasons, so those that oppose this, what are your solutions so that these big clubs get less attention? Here's one, start making more population.

Too many vic players, yep and?

Probably as a result of having more population combined than all the other footy states and territories combined.

We had a secret meeting like a couple hundred years (before footy was discovered) ago to make sure we had more footy interested public than all the other states to ensure Vic bias - because we collectively hate you all so much.

This is the sort of belief of the conspiracy theorists on here.

Play a rolling fixture and put on your prime time spot the best 3 games of the round no matter who is playing. This is not difficult.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

So the narrative is

Vic players want to go home, oh the humanity.

Big vic clubs get all the tv and crowd attention, for obvious reasons, so those that oppose this, what are your solutions so that these big clubs get less attention? Here's one, start making more population.

Too many vic players, yep and?

Probably as a result of having more population combined than all the other footy states and territories combined.

We had a secret meeting like a couple hundred years (before footy was discovered) ago to make sure we had more footy interested public than all the other states to ensure Vic bias - because we collectively hate you all so much.

This is the sort of belief of the conspiracy theorists on here.

And none of this is a conspiracy, the AFL admits it all. The league is compromised, the fixture is a set fixture. The AFL admit that there is nothing fair about the league as hard as they try to make it fair.

It is not a conspiracy.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Play a rolling fixture and put on your prime time spot the best 3 games of the round no matter who is playing. This is not difficult.

Then they'd be doing it already, as you've correctly stated, it's all about the $ hence why we set marquee fixtures.

 

[Carringbush2010]

And none of this is a conspiracy, the AFL admits it all. The league is compromised, the fixture is a set fixture. The AFL admit that there is nothing fair about the league as hard as they try to make it fair.

It is not a conspiracy.

I know and you know it's not a conspiracy, but the way some posters carry on, well they think it is.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Then they'd be doing it already, as you've correctly stated, it's all about the $ hence why we set marquee fixtures.

That they have not tried this to at the very least appease their fans is beyond me.
Do t say something else brings in more money if you don’t know it does.

 

[mcfazza28]

The only reason we have threads like these is because we have a compromised competition. Everything about the league is compromised.
Once upon a time you could bank on the fact that the team that won the flag is genuinely the best team in the comp, we can't even do that anymore as it comes down to finishing positions on the ladder after the Home and away and that all comes down to who played what sides twice and what advantage did they get from doing that.

How on earth did we get to this and become such a huge league yet such an unprofessional and unfair league. Money Money Money is the answer but it only helps out one state that money and hence why it never gets discussed or looked at.

The amount of mountains some of the clubs have to climb to have success in this league is incredible, many clubs can't even get TV space even when they are up the top of the ladder.

None of this is news, it has been like this for decades and it won't change until the priority of the league is the competition first and money second. You just need a brave new CEO. Who probably does not exist.

Perhaps the most accurate description I have seen of the compromised state of our competition.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RUNVS]

The only reason we have threads like these is because we have a compromised competition. Everything about the league is compromised.
Once upon a time you could bank on the fact that the team that won the flag is genuinely the best team in the comp, we can't even do that anymore as it comes down to finishing positions on the ladder after the Home and away and that all comes down to who played what sides twice and what advantage did they get from doing that.

How on earth did we get to this and become such a huge league yet such an unprofessional and unfair league. Money Money Money is the answer but it only helps out one state that money and hence why it never gets discussed or looked at.

The amount of mountains some of the clubs have to climb to have success in this league is incredible, many clubs can't even get TV space even when they are up the top of the ladder.

None of this is news, it has been like this for decades and it won't change until the priority of the league is the competition first and money second. You just need a brave new CEO. Who probably does not exist.

Doesn't help that Victorian teams have won 15 of the last 17 Grand Finals. It is hard to ignore how lopsided that is and if it was the other way around Victorian fans would be screaming.

 

[Carringbush2010]

That they have not tried this to at the very least appease their fans is beyond me.
Do t say something else brings in more money if you don’t know it does.

But they are appeasing their fans, not all, but appeasing the ones that are more of.

That's why we have set marquee games like Anzac day etc., they bring in the most $

 

[Carringbush2010]

Doesn't help that Victorian teams have won 15 of the last 17 Grand Finals. It is hard to ignore how lopsided that is and if it was the other way around Victorian fans would be screaming.

Do you think this is a deliberate conspiracy? Honest question.

 

[RUNVS]

Do you think this is a deliberate conspiracy? Honest question.

No, but I think there are biases within the system that the AFL and Victorians in general are happy to ignore because it benefits them.

 

[Engimal v3]

Doesn't help that Victorian teams have won 15 of the last 17 Grand Finals. It is hard to ignore how lopsided that is and if it was the other way around Victorian fans would be screaming.

Why do interstaters never consider inherent Victorian supremacy as the answer? It's always some kooky conspiracy theory...

 

[RUNVS]

Why do interstaters never consider inherent Victorian supremacy as the answer? It's always some kooky conspiracy theory...

Must be why most Formula 1 drivers are the sons of millionaires or billionaires. Millionaires and billionaires just have better motor racing genes I guess.

 

[sr36]

A few corrections

NGA System, which was brought in just for Vic clubs, with WA and SA only have access to people after pick 40.

You missed percentage of home grown talent on your list.
Marquee fixtures
Free agency availability of players, plus A Grade top ups (especially from GC and GWS) especially to the top Vic clubs. (Non vics club do not have the same pool of players to select once they get a good list)
There is a good reason why when you look at the recent premiers, they have all features multiples players from other clubs e.g. Lynch, Cameron, May etc etc

This is 5 years old. I'd say that numbers have increased from the Northern states since, but in 2018, WA had the big home grown advantage. Followed by SA.

53% of the players were Vics, but 55% of the clubs are Vic - the go home kids get shared around. And with the increased competition the Vic clubs pay more for their go home recruits than WA and SA do

The growing markets are also getting an increasing number of get out of the footy bubble recruits.

How WA punches above its weight with top-end AFL talent

While there are 430 Victorians currently on AFL lists making up 53 per cent of the player pool, WA only contributes 114 players (14 per cent).

www.theage.com.au

 

[doppleganger]

That they have not tried this to at the very least appease their fans is beyond me.
Do t say something else brings in more money if you don’t know it does.

Not sure what you are trying to say ere?

The league has a few key principles

• equalisation of team capabilities
• expansion into growth markets
• maximising overall revenue

The poor WA wowser or SA sook lazy cry of VICBIAS is a key sign that the poster is a nuffie.

The most disadvantaged clubs in the league are the small Melbourne based teams

North, St.Kilda, Doggies and Melbourne.

 

[Carringbush2010]

No, but I think there are biases within the system that the AFL and Victorians in general are happy to ignore because it benefits them.

The word 'biases' implies just that.



So I'll ask again, do you think Victorians have secret meetings to punch down (conspire) on non vic states to uphold the current landscape, or is it the landscape is market driven i:e there are more victorians in every sphere of the game, players, coaches, FD staff, paying fans and members etc.? Honest question.

 

[Papa G]

Do you think this is a deliberate conspiracy? Honest question.

Conspiracy? Maybe not that dramatic. But the power, the money, the governance", the government money, the media, the ridiculous love of the over rated Gee, and the "this is our game" attitude is concentrated in one place.

Any rate, I've virtually given up on the game. The game I've loved my whole life. Just don't really consume it any more. My club us a shell of what it once was. The game is horrible to watch. The media intolerable. I've watched a combination of about 3 games this year. I used to watch that as a minimum a weekend.

I've just moved on. When you move away, you realise what a waste of time it alll is.