List Mgmt. 2019 Trade Thread - Part V

[Winmar2Lockett]

Where do you think he plays for us HBF with time in the middle ?

Rolls between the Centre square, wing & HB


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[austinnn]

Depth. Clubs like the Dogs and Geelong have depth and to move forward you need a competitive standard in the VFL to push players to compete for spots. Pick 90 in a s**t draft isn't going to be much chop and we get nothing for him. He either gets back to what he was or delisted in 12 months. Hill could do a knee before Christmas and we don't have cover. Do we just write off another year until injuries are overcome?

I suppose you're right. The idea of Newnes replacing Hill is hard to contemplate over lunch!

I forgot about the VFL option, the concept of Newnes playing in the 2s is so foreign but that is absolutely where he belongs.

Seems like Carlton want him to be the Papley replacement though, so it's all academic.

 

[AirWinmar]

Will interesting to see how blake goes playing in the one possie. Freo said they want to settle him in as a wing or inside mid.

I reckon he will go really well playing consistently wing as he did when we played him there. Would still be behind Hill and Billings for us now tho so wouldnt of got the opportunity to play his best spot with us

 

[Jughead77]

Looks like Ricky is out from the hospital. I was standing pretty close to him as Spud's hearse made its way around the oval. Like many others, it was clear he was hurting badly. Glad to see he's getting the help he so desperately needs.

 

[gringo2011]

I don't think he's best 22 and if he is, then the 22 ain't much chop. I did say I wasn't addicted to turning over, but I think we've got to move on. What can Newnes offer us that we haven't already seen?

The problem with too many out is that you have to replace them with something better, The picks we have won't be likely to get anywhere near the quality that you lose. It gets down to single digit percentages to find 100 game players over pick 50. Kids develop faster with experience around them as well. We have turned over a huge amount of players already in the last 5 years. It gets to a tipping point where the side goes full bottom out again if you prune too hard.

 

[St Neil]

I've voiced my displeasure on twitter and needless to say I'm getting a lot of feedback on it but they did an absolute sabotage job on Stuv. Every chance Wells got he brought the issues into it and blew them up as much as he could and the media played along. As soon as the deal is done, suddenly Stuv is Reinvigorated and wells can't keep the smile off his face.

imo, they absolutely took advantage of the situation.

Wells talked Jack’s prospects down at every opportunity. Couldn’t help himself and looked oily in the process. It’s sad that he couldn’t shut up and quietly get a fair deal done that reflected good faith towards St Kilda who were only motivated to care for a club great and fan favourite.

Rather, Geelong were simply trying to win the deal. Compare them to Richmond who accommodated Dan Butler’s desire to get to us and play senior football. The Tigers were all class. Good on them.

Geelong are not Richmond. Geelong are not St Kilda. And for that I am very grateful.

 

[gringo2011]

No it's Bert from Mary Poppins

Talking of Bert did you see this parody of the Joker. Pretty funny.

 

[austinnn]

The problem with too many out is that you have to replace them with something better, The picks we have won't be likely to get anywhere near the quality that you lose. It gets down to single digit percentages to find 100 game players over pick 50. Kids develop faster with experience around them as well. We have turned over a huge amount of players already in the last 5 years. It gets to a tipping point where the side goes full bottom out again if you prune too hard.

Yes I know but we still have to find three spaces on our list for draftees - that's all I want to do, not turn over half the list!

 

[gringo2011]

Wells talked Jack’s prospects down at every opportunity. Couldn’t help himself and looked oily in the process. It’s sad that he couldn’t shut up and quietly get a fair deal done that reflected good faith towards St Kilda who were only motivated to care for a club great and fan favourite.

Rather, Geelong were simply trying to win the deal. Compare them to Richmond who accommodated Dan Butler’s desire to get to us and play senior football. The Tigers were all class. Good on them.

Geelong are not Richmond. Geelong are not St Kilda. And for that I am very grateful.

They run with the personality of their coach, classless, bullying, gormless buffoon.

 

[Stewart66]

You have to be certified to leave out all of the details to fit your narrative, There is also what we lost to get those players. It wasn't just 12 and 18. It was Bruce, Stuv, pick 6, a couple of future picks, Acres and nearly all access to this years draft after spending a lot of this years picks last year. The players we got look pretty good but if you tell half the story and state it as fact you look like Donald Trump.

Hill is the best player we have traded in for years and the rest are all speculative but highly promising players. You don't need to gloss it up, it is what it is. The club has chosen a path and we will all accept it whether we agree with it or not. We don't need a fairytale version of it to sell it to ourselves.

The narrative was the suggestion of taking 12 - 18 to the draft ..rather than Hill/ Howard ...

It’s no fairy tale that Keath has stress fractures in the leg , Burton has a got the arse from the Crows
for medical mismanagement of their list as a result ...just sick of the Bulldogs are the wonderful team
commentary..if the Bont does a knee they’re screwed too.

We’re not there yet ..neither are the Dogs ...if English goes down they haven’t got a ruckman on their list.

Really happy with the direction myself Lethlean said it clearly we need to be better , Stuv is not the future .

King & Battle are not going to develop with Bruce there we need to be bold take risks to improve.

 

[St Neil]

They run with the personality of their coach, classless, bullying, gormless buffoon.

I’ve perused some of the other club boards and what is apparent is that other supporters reckon Geelong looked bog ordinary. On the other side, we have been seen to be compassionate and caring. I suspect those views are also representative of the wider football supporting community. Sometimes life is more important than whether you win or lose.

Having said that, I look forward to the day when we smash them at Kardinia Park in front of all their supporters because none of ours can get a seat. It will happen. And I will be quietly chuffed.

 

[Lightsxo]

there Is only 2 players from that draft I would consider having instead of hunter Clark from the draft.

Aaron naughton
Tim Kelly

I’d take Hunter over Naughton every day of the week especially with the players we already have.

 

[AirWinmar]

Soooo... after the last 10 or so years of commentary about it, can we finally ditch our association with the word "slow"

If we can finally do that, then this trade period has been more than worth it

We must be pretty quick of the mark now. I reckon we have a lot of sub 3 sec in 20mt players. Id say Hill, Jones, Coff, Hind, JWeb, King, Howard, Young, myb Long, Parker & possibly Members

 

[Mat Mann]

The problem with too many out is that you have to replace them with something better, The picks we have won't be likely to get anywhere near the quality that you lose. It gets down to single digit percentages to find 100 game players over pick 50. Kids develop faster with experience around them as well. We have turned over a huge amount of players already in the last 5 years. It gets to a tipping point where the side goes full bottom out again if you prune too hard.

I think Dal Santo said top 40 picks went at 50% being 100 game players, beyond that it went out to 1 in 5. that's just playing 100 games, not star value.

 

[gringo2011]

The narrative was the suggestion of taking 12 - 18 to the draft ..rather than Hill/ Howard ...

It’s no fairy tale that Keath has stress fractures in the leg , Burton has a got the arse from the Crows
for medical mismanagement of their list as a result ...just sick of the Bulldogs are the wonderful team
commentary..if the Bont does a knee they’re screwed too.

We’re not there yet ..neither are the Dogs ...if English goes down they haven’t got a ruckman on their list.be

Really happy with the direction myself Lethlean said it clearly we need to be better , Stuv is not the future .

King & Battle are not going to develop with Bruce there we need to be bold take risks to improve.

I don't agree with the need to be bold to improve, there haven't been many side that rapidly improved through gambling. Good decision making is usually the best approach. Any way as I said it is what it is, we are on this train like it or not. I just hope our gambles come off this time. I don't mind the trades but would like start getting back into the drafts soon. Next year isn't a great one to have a first pick in though.

The Dogs are way in front of where we are though. Mc Crae and Dunkley are elite and Bailey Smith looks a gun coming through too. Naughton is what we hope King is and English and Rowan Marshall will be the Gawn and Grundy of the next generation. With their ins they have no excuse, they should be top 4.

 

[gringo2011]

I think Dal Santo said top 40 picks went at 50% being 100 game players, beyond that it went out to 1 in 5. that's just playing 100 games, not star value.

A few years ago they had an article and it showed the ranges and percentages. Over 50 it was single digit percentages but over 70 or 80 it was almost zero chance of getting to 100 games. Part of that is probably the clubs not rating the draft pick so not giving opportunity to the players. That said rookie listers seem to go better.

 

[gringo2011]

We must be pretty quick of the mark now. I reckon we have a lot of sub 3 sec in 20mt players. Id say Hill, Jones, Coff, Hind, JWeb, King, Howard, Young, myb Long, Parker & possibly Members

Jones definitely has that initial burst speed like Stuv, he seems flat chat pretty quickly.

 

[gringo2011]

I’d take Hunter over Naughton every day of the week especially with the players we already have.

Seriously, I love Hunter, he was the guy I wanted in the draft if we missed Stephenson, but if we could swap now I'd not even blink before I signed the transfer. Naughton put on one of the best individual displays I've seen since Carey and he's 19. I reckon he'll be the best player of that super draft by a mile.

 

[Mat Mann]

I don't agree with the need to be bold to improve, there haven't been many side that rapidly improved through gambling. Good decision making is usually the best approach. Any way as I said it is what it is, we are on this train like it or not. I just hope our gambles come off this time. I don't mind the trades but would like start getting back into the drafts soon. Next year isn't a great one to have a first pick in though.

The Dogs are way in front of where we are though. Mc Crae and Dunkley are elite and Bailey Smith looks a gun coming through too. Naughton is what we hope King is and English and Rowan Marshall will be the Gawn and Grundy of the next generation. With their ins they have no excuse, they should be top 4.

there is really only 1 way to get A grade talent to the Saints, and that's via the draft. we paid a lot for Hill and I'm ok with that, but if you have to pay out 2/3/4 picks to bring in A grade talent then your never going to catch up. For us we need to absolutely nail 1 or 2 drafts, get a real solid 3 players out of those drafts and for 2 or 3 of them to become B+/A grade players, we may have already seen it in the last 2 years but we can't afford more Billing's who take 5 yrs to reach potential and consistency. Its a big ask.

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

Seriously, I love Hunter, he was the guy I wanted in the draft if we missed Stephenson, but if we could swap now I'd not even blink before I signed the transfer. Naughton put on one of the best individual displays I've seen since Carey and he's 19. I reckon he'll be the best player of that super draft by a mile.

Don't forget Hunter was Richo'd from the start. I predict he will make massive improvements next year.

 

[gringo2011]

I’ve perused some of the other club boards and what is apparent is that other supporters reckon Geelong looked bog ordinary. On the other side, we have been seen to be compassionate and caring. I suspect those views are also representative of the wider football supporting community. Sometimes life is more important than whether you win or lose.

Having said that, I look forward to the day when we smash them at Kardinia Park in front of all their supporters because none of ours can get a seat. It will happen. And I will be quietly chuffed.

Yeah, I yearn for the time when we can bully sides again. I can remember being at the Dome when we were flying and smashing the Roos unmercifully and seeing people in their cheer squad crying. There was that compassion at first but also this immense feeling of * yeah, being better than others vicariously is awesome as *. I want that back. I'd love to se Scott pensioned off after we decimate them at the Cattery. Please let it come true before I soften and become nice.

 

[AirWinmar]

Good point. We need to get better players at Sandy even if they aren't St Kilda listed. Need to start building a winning culture

Completely agree with this. Its an early call but if we dont have too many injuries i think Sandy will go well next year. We have a lot of decent depth in my view so their best 22 should be looking pretty good

 

[saintsmania]

Does anyone else feel we could have kept 56 and picked up Butler as DFA? That would have given us 2 picks in 3rd round in draft and put us in better position overall. Its good being a reasonable club and have that image or we could be more smarter..

So far with the ins/outs we have 4 list spots

Out: Longer, Pierce, Armo, Rowe, Acres, Bruce, Steven, White, Newnes and rice (most likely)

In: Howard, Ryder, Hill, Jones and Butler, Wilkie (upgrade)

Correct me if I am wrong but does that mean we will use 2 x picks on draft plus Wilkie and 2 in rookie draft?

 

[gringo2011]

there is really only 1 way to get A grade talent to the Saints, and that's via the draft. we paid a lot for Hill and I'm ok with that, but if you have to pay out 2/3/4 picks to bring in A grade talent then your never going to catch up. For us we need to absolutely nail 1 or 2 drafts, get a real solid 3 players out of those drafts and for 2 or 3 of them to become B+/A grade players, we may have already seen it in the last 2 years but we can't afford more Billing's who take 5 yrs to reach potential and consistency. Its a big ask.

Hopefully 2021 is a deep and uncompromised one. We need to do what WCE or Geelong dd where we bring in several best 22 players in one draft. The 2011 draft where we got Newnes, Ross and Webster was the last time we got a haul of quality players. Hopefully some of the more recent ones end up better. Clark, Coffield and Paton look good.

 

[tim_saints]

Not sure about that Ellis was pretty solid, he's not far off but he'd be a in a similar range and you have to push him out. He's certainly not a massive upgrade, possibly a move across. I would rate them pretty similarly, Jones better burst and pace but worse disposal.

Ellis is a cat, all my tigers mates hated him... soft and runs one way, go to a lot of tigers games because my best mate is a tiger and they all say the same thing about him.

Ellis doesn’t have Jones’ aggression and ability to win his own ball, Ellis may get more of it on the outside in a brilliant team but I’d be taking Jones over Ellis any day personally