Strategy Changes & Pre-match Discussion - GRAND FINAL vs. Brisbane MCG, 2:30pm Sat 30/09

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Framps second ruck and Cox forward?
The downside to that is Cox has shown some ruck influence recently.
Deep entries Cox works but if/when we are under the pump with shallow entries off half back need to go smaller and chaos ball it.
 

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Lockyer24 said:
Framps second ruck and Cox forward?
The downside to that is Cox has shown some ruck influence recently.
Deep entries Cox works but if/when we are under the pump with shallow entries off half back need to go smaller and chaos ball it.
Click to expand...
We can't give up a competitive advantage to plug a hole, in my opinion. If Frampton is in, he plays FF and Cox is first ruck. Cox and Cameron will still get forward when we have slow entries as they always do.
 
Lockyer24 said:
Framps second ruck and Cox forward?
The downside to that is Cox has shown some ruck influence recently.
Deep entries Cox works but if/when we are under the pump with shallow entries off half back need to go smaller and chaos ball it.
Click to expand...
Cox must take the first bounce - hopefully he put's the Big Ohhh on his ar*s - just like he did with Gawn in the Qualifying.
 
Scritchyscroony said:
If they follow their man upfield they are still getting rest compared to being the on ball ruckman.
We are going to be 2 v 1 in terms of genuine rucks. Throw in a 5 min break for one of them per QTR and I don't see the issue. Surely they have the tank to do that.
At the risk of our rucks getting too gassed (in a 2v1 scenario), it allows us to play the extra small. Ginni, Tay, Noble. To me it seems a better risk/reward than bringing in a likely bunny in the headlights like Krueger or Frampton.
Click to expand...
I don't think they would have the tank. If they play forward they have to play as forwards and most forwards rest for about 5 minutes a quarter. These ones are going to play half the game in the ruck and would need longer.

Coxy doesn't play big minutes. Between them theyd usually do about 140% game time. Shifting that up to 180% would probably see them gassed and floundering big time.
 
Lockyer24 said:
Framps second ruck and Cox forward?
The downside to that is Cox has shown some ruck influence recently.
Deep entries Cox works but if/when we are under the pump with shallow entries off half back need to go smaller and chaos ball it.
Click to expand...
Deep entries also play straight into Harris Andrew’s’ hands. Wouldn’t surprise me if we go the chaos ball with our entries this week - keep them low and negate the advantage of the Lions very good tall backs. Let Hill, Elliott and McCreery get to work.
 
Cousin of Daicos said:
Not sure if it requires a thread or not, but if we win, who do you think should present the Cup to McRae and Darcy?

For me, the best 3 options are:

1) Nick Maxwell - Last premiership captain hands to the next one
2) Peter Moore - Former Captain who lost Grand Finals hands it to his Premiership Captain son
3) Peter Daicos - The "fan option". Legend of the club who gifted us two champion sons that have helped drive the team to this position

My heart says Daicos, my head says Maxwell, the father in me says Moore lol
Click to expand...
this is cringe talk....
 
If Frampton starts as FF and occupies Andrews, we’ll need Mihocek to step up from the 1.1 and 1.2 he’s put up so far this season. Elliott too from his 0.2 and 1.2.

It would also be hugely beneficial on a hot day if no-one gets injured, and we can sub on a runner for a big bloke later in the game.

Lipinski with his aerobic capacity should be safe on a 27 degree day. I would probably opt for Noble over Ginnivan, that running ability will be important and we can push Howe forward for balance if needed.
 
Cousin of Daicos said:
I disagree personally but that's fine

I rate Frampton higher than most and that's ok. I like players with versatility. That's just a me thing. I've always really liked players who can play multiple roles at a capable level. Even more so for players who can play multiple roles well. It was acrually a major reason Nathan Buckley was and still is one of my favourite Collingwood players ever.

Dude could literally play anywhere on the ground except ruck, well. Actually better than well.

I feel like yes, while Frampton isn't as good a pure forward as McStay, he's still serviceable in the role. All we need to tweak is our forward line "gameplan" a little and keep Frampton's role simple, then the other 5 can lift the load.

The beauty of Frampton is that he has versatility. But he's ultimately a tall body and tall players don't get shorter as the game wears on, especially in perfect weather. In 2018, if Darcy Moore plays, we win. If Daniher and Hipwood's height starts to become a problem, you can throw Frampton back and move Howe forward. Realistically Howe doesn't have a good matchup in that forward line and he's an awkward match up in ours.

He had an uncharacteristically poor marking night in Round 23. I don't expect that would happen to Howe twice. He's also an accurate kick for goal.

But again, this is all just me maybe.

I think the safest option is Frampton for McStay straight up. It's a mobile tall for mobile tall. But at least it's a mobile tall that can play 3 roles serviceably as opposed to 1 role well.

If they really want to bring Adams in, I would prefer it's at the expense of Lipinski. Ginnivan simply can't come out.
Click to expand...
I rate Frampton like you. Maybe not as a forward but seriously, we need a tall against Brisbane. Playing small is too much of a risk.

Kreugs will not play ahead of Frampton.
 
It’s not ideal, but if Lachie Keeffe can play as a defensive forward on Moore for GWS, Frampton can do it for us on Andrews. It’s Elliott and Mihocek who need to step up.
 

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Exambolor said:
Exactly, Framp would be ideal for the role. This is the game where Checkers needs to have a day where he kicks 5
Click to expand...

Frampton only played two games up forward for us, one of them was quite good, but he kicked 2 and 1 which is halfway to replacing McStay. The game after against Fremantle he was relief ruck (31 ruck contests behind Cox) and only had 57% game time.

Also gives us in-game options to switch with Howe down back or a ruckman.

I’d obviously rather McStay with his contesting ability and steady 2 goals per game, but Frampton up forward is not the disaster people have been making out.

Going in small, to me, would be;

giphy.gif
 
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The Royal Sampler said:
The footy media are just not that insightful, they’ve seen Brisbane beat us twice this year already and so that’s what guides their decision making. But as we’ve seen with GWS vs Port, these results can turn around quickly; a 74-point turnaround in 34 days, and that’s without a venue change.
Click to expand...

If they can't get simple facts right then insights are a stretch.

This from the HUN football chief, implying Bris might be stronger than last time?

(Narrator: Dunkley played Rd 23, but JDG did not)

1695702285120.png
 
live fast pieyoung said:
I disagree
We haven't played a defensive gamestyle against them like we did the past 2 weeks
but that is evidence we can slow teams down when we want to
we will certainly keep them to an honest score
Click to expand...

I’m not saying we can’t do it, I’m saying there is no evidence of us being able to “put the clamps” on Brisbane specifically this year. 116 and 124 says otherwise.
 
Lockyer24 said:
Framps second ruck and Cox forward?
The downside to that is Cox has shown some ruck influence recently.
Deep entries Cox works but if/when we are under the pump with shallow entries off half back need to go smaller and chaos ball it.
Click to expand...
This.
Cox in deep (giggity..) but deep forward means Andrews plays on him, Cox also garners a lot of free kicks due to chopping of the arms and he's generally a pretty good kick for goal.
 
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Preview - The Grand Final Edition 🏆🏉 👊 Collingwood vs Brisbane, 2023

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MARK ROBINSON​

COLLINGWOOD
Can’t be mucking around with the structure on GF day. Pies need the secondary tall to compete in the air and to keep Harris Andrews busy. Adams is too much of a risk
Ins: Billy Frampton
Outs: Dan McStay
Sub: Jack Ginnivan
BRISBANE
Chris Fagan has already said he won’t play injured players, so Paine misses and Gardiner stays in. If Payne did play, they’d need a defensive sub in case he falls over. That ain’t going to happen.
Unchanged
Sub: Jarryd Lyons

Who comes in for the injured Dan McStay? Picture: Andrew Henshaw

JON RALPH​

COLLINGWOOD
The Pies have won two finals with 60 and 58 points but must score more to win against Brisbane. So it’s Jeremy Howe forward with Billy Frampton into the team i defence. But Taylor Adams (hamstring) misses out. Pat Lipinski keeps his spot.
Ins: Billy Frampton
Outs: Dan McStay
Sub: Jack Ginnivan

BRISBANE
Jack Payne was never going to play against Carlton. With Darcy Gardiner in such good form they can’t risk Payne if he’s anywhere less than 90 per cent. So no change, as tough as that is on the improved Payne.
Unchanged
Sub: Jarryd Lyons

LAUREN WOOD​

COLLINGWOOD
Some say no risk, no reward, but when it comes to premiership deciders, there’s more often than not nothing to gain from rolling the dice. Sorry, Taylor Adams, it’s just too tight of a call to be making against a rampant Brisbane side. Look at Sam Reid and Phil Davis, while Geelong made the tough call on Max Holmes this week last year and it paid off. You have to keep the balance of the side which means McRae will have to think about Billy Frampton.
Ins: Jack Ginnivan
Outs: Dan McStay
Sub: John Noble
BRISBANE
Like many grand final weeks before, it’s all eyes on a fitness test - this time Jack Payne. It’ll be all-or-nothing as he puts that ankle through its paces and if there’s even a hint of any issue, Chris Fagan has little choice but to leave him out.
Ins: Jack Payne (only if 100 per cent fit)
Outs: Darcy Gardiner
Sub: Jarryd Lyons


SIMEON THOMAS-WILSON​

COLLINGWOOD
Billy Frampton’s wild ride of a career should continue with a grand final gig. The Pies shouldn’t change their team balance so it should be Frampton time. History tells us it is the wrong move to play a player with a soft tissue issue in the grand final so as much as it will hurt Adams should not come in.
Ins: Billy Frampton
Outs: Dan McStay
Sub: Jack Ginnivan

BRISBANE
Jack Payne is going to be extremely unlucky to miss out but Darcy Gardiner was great against Carlton and should hold his spot in the Lions side. The only other question for the Lions looks to be around who will be their sub. Is Jarryd Lyons a gamechanger off the bench?
Unchanged
Sub: Jarryd Lyons

Does Jack Ginnivan find a spot in Collingwood’s starting 22 or remain the sub? Picture: Michael Klein

JOSH BARNES​

COLLINGWOOD
Craig McRae’s call to go tall a month ago and stick with two rucks has the Pies perfectly placed to weather the Dan McStay storm. Mason Cox and Darcy Cameron should spend a little more time forward, while Jack Ginnivan should replace McStay as a goalkicking option. If fit, Taylor Adams would be an excellent option as the sub, to come on and wreak havoc in the final term.
In: Jack Ginnivan
Out: Dan McStay
Sub: Taylor Adams
BRISBANE LIONS
It’s simply too much of a risk to throw Jack Payne into the defence on a bum ankle. Especially when Darcy Gardiner is more than capable of covering for him down back. And the Lions don’t need grand final specialist Jack Gunston either. Chris Fagan has locked Jarryd Lyons in as his preferred sub given his ball winning ability so no need to make a change there.
Unchanged
Sub: Jarryd Lyons

Does [PLAYERCARD]John Noble[/PLAYERCARD] make it back into Collingwood’s team. Picture: Michael Klein.

GLENN McFARLANE​

COLLINGWOOD
In: Jack Ginnivan
Out: Dan McStay
Sub: John Noble
Such a tough selection week at Collingwood with all eyes on Taylor Adams who will push it to the line to try to prove he has recovered from his minor hamstring strain. The heart says yes he can do it. The head fears it could be a gamble which could backfire. We will know more on Thursday. Then it comes down to Dan McStay’s replacement. It’s Billy Frampton or John Noble. Suspect the Pies might choose to go with a smaller forward line to not change the backline structure and with the weather set to be hot, they can try to run the Lions off their legs.

BRISBANE LIONS
Unchanged
Sub: Jarryd Lyons
Jack Payne is pushing to play after missing last week’s clash with an ankle injury, but it will be touch and go. Danny Daly said Payne was 70 per cent last Sunday. But unless he is 100 per cent, he won't be playing. Again, this will come down to Thursday’s main session. If he doesn’t get up, we saw last week how Darcy Gardiner can perform under pressure.


SAM LANDSBERGER​

COLLINGWOOD
The temptation would be to go like-for-like and play big Billy Frampton to retain the same structure. But that is too risky, so promote Ginnivan into the starting 22 with the knowledge you can move Jeremy Howe or Will Hoskin-Elliott forward if things aren’t working. John Noble could then come on as the seventh defender. On a hot day (forecast 28C) you will need run, run and more run.
Ins: Jack Ginnivan
Outs: Dan McStay
Sub: John Noble
BRISBANE
Ins: Jack Payne
Outs: Darcy Gardiner
Sub: Jarryd Lyons
Ross Lyon said it best before his final when he spoke about having loyalty to those who had done the job all year. Well, at the Lions that is Payne, and with his ankle injury likely to heal he has earned a place in the grand final team. It is a tough call given Gardiner got the job done on Charlie Curnow. But that’s finals football.

Could [PLAYERCARD]Billy Frampton[/PLAYERCARD] be the lucky Pie who comes in for the injured Dan McStay? Picture: Daniel Pockett/Getty Images

LACHLAN McKIRDY​

COLLINGWOOD
The Pies can thank Dan McStay for their place in the grand final as he looked like their most dangerous forward against the Giants and replacing him will be no easy task. Rather than bring in another tall, going small could be the way to go. Jack Ginnivan has looked strong in recent weeks and deserves more of a chance to impact the game. Hopefully, Taylor Adams will be able to return for the grand final.
Ins: Jack Ginnivan, Taylor Adams
Outs: Dan McStay, Pat Lipinski
Sub: Pat Lipinski

BRISBANE
It will be a big decision to make for the Lions and Chris Fagan if Jack Payne is fit. Darcy Gardiner was impressive and surely has locked his place in the side, so Payne would have to come into the team for someone else. Unfortunately for him, the Lions will probably favour having a 100 per cent fit team and leave him watching on from the sidelines against the Pies.
Unchanged
Sub: Jarryd Lyons
 
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