Strategy Changes & Pre-match Discussion - Round 21 vs. Hawthorn, MCG, Sat 05/08, 4:35pm

[Vicky Park]

My recollection was that Beams had a chance late to win it for us but missed the shot at goal, but you know what old people are like. Maybe you are thinking of Geelong in 2011? I'm sure hubby can remind you of that.
Edit: Not as senile as I thought:

Saturday, 28 August (2:10 pm)

Hawthorn 15.8 (98)​

def.

Collingwood 13.17 (95)

MCG (crowd: 76,218)

Yikes! My memory is that it was a comfortable win for them.

The senility rests with me.

Big crowd.

 

[LuckyLee]

For some time I’ve had the view that Darcy Moore

30

Darcy Moore

Age

28

Ht

203cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.1

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

169.1

3star

D

13.9

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

0.7

1star

MG

182.0

3star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

2.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

87.4

2star

isn’t great when he has to play a tight-checking, one-v-one role on an opposition power forward. Doing so nullifies his greatest strengths and accentuates his weaknesses.

To get the most out of Darcy Moore

30

Darcy Moore

Age

28

Ht

203cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.1

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

169.1

3star

D

13.9

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

0.7

1star

MG

182.0

3star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

2.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

87.4

2star

’s incredible marking and rebounding talents, we need to free him up from such tight-checking responsibilities. Brisbane has already done similar with Harris Andrews

31

Harris Andrews

Age

27

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.8

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

151.7

2star

D

17.0

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

8.0

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.0

3star

D

9.8

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

4.8

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

94.0

2star

. Dees are experimenting with freeing-up Stephen May. IMO, we need to do same with Moore.

To do that, we need to get Frampton into the side.

To get Frampton into the side, I think Howe gets squeezed out.

(Getting Frampton into the side, along with Johnson, also eliminates the need to play both Cameron and Cox. That then makes us faster and more agile.)

Relative to our line-up last week, I expect these changes by Finals:

OUT of the 23 - Cox, Howe, WHE
IN to the 23 - Johnson, Frampton, Hill


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[Ironmonger85]

Watching todays press conference Bobby Hill's coming straight back in but it sounds like Cox isn't getting dropped this week.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

For some time I’ve had the view that Darcy Moore isn’t great when he has to play a tight-checking, one-v-one role on an opposition power forward. Doing so nullifies his greatest strengths and accentuates his weaknesses.

To get the most out of Darcy Moore’s incredible marking and rebounding talents, we need to free him up from such tight-checking responsibilities. Brisbane has already done similar with Harris Andrews. Dees are experimenting with freeing-up Stephen May. IMO, we need to do same with Moore.

To do that, we need to get Frampton into the side.

To get Frampton into the side, I think Howe gets squeezed out.

(Getting Frampton into the side, along with Johnson, also eliminates the need to play both Cameron and Cox. That then makes us faster and more agile.)

Relative to our line-up last week, I expect these changes by Finals:

OUT of the 23 - Cox, Howe, WHE
IN to the 23 - Johnson, Frampton, Hill


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Completely agree except it won’t happen. Interestingly enough fly said he moved Howe forward pretty much because he didn’t have a matchup in defence. In other words, he was getting belted.

 

[MagpieJoel]

Howe had 17 disp, 10 marks, 9 score involvements and 3 goals in one quarter, not bad for someone who's supposedly cooked

You forgot the number of goals he had kicked on him.

 

[jmac70]

Watching todays press conference Bobby Hill's coming straight back in but it sounds like Cox isn't getting dropped this week.

I got the opposite impression.
Think he’ll get a go in the VFL to find form.

 

[Black_White]

Can’t wait for this one.
For the first time in a loooong time I’ll be in the stands.
With the Hawk loving Mrs.
We better win or the night will be unbearable!

 

[Hong Kong Pie]

Yeah, i wouldn't be surprised if Coxy was in the VFL for a game, give him a chance to work on his patterns a little bit away from the direct public glare.

Howe has the capacity to be what Petty is the Demons now - a bonafide forward/back who can impact wherever he can have most effect. I don't belive Fly will cut him this week. Possibly a foward negating role on Sicily, Howe's aerial ability could come in super handy.

 

[LuckyLee]

Completely agree except it won’t happen. Interestingly enough fly said he moved Howe forward pretty much because he didn’t have a matchup in defence. In other words, he was getting belted.

I don’t think Howe was getting belted but he has looked a bit lost, hesitant, and surplus in defence since his return.


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[LuckyLee]

Yeah, i wouldn't be surprised if Coxy was in the VFL for a game, give him a chance to work on his patterns a little bit away from the direct public glare.

Howe has the capacity to be what Petty is the Demons now - a bonafide forward/back who can impact wherever he can have most effect. I don't belive Fly will cut him this week. Possibly a foward negating role on Sicily, Howe's aerial ability could come in super handy.

I think you’re right about Howe being retained this week but do think he’s a good chance to be replaced by Frampton by the time we get to Finals.


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[ElliottsMaggies]

I think you’re right about Howe being retained this week but do think he’s a good chance to be replaced by Frampton by the time we get to Finals.


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I'd be shocked if Howe was replaced for the finals.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I'd be shocked if Howe was replaced for the finals.

Agree, his status is just too high and will get selected on reputation and long term proven form. Will survive unless form drops away.

 

[KinderSmock]

Howe remains forward, you're probably not seeing Cox or Johnson in the lineup.

 

[3rdMan]

From McRae's PC I think it unlikely Cox is dropped and even more unlikely we make a change to our defence. If so, this is positive. Shows we're confident with where we're at and won't make panicked moves.

in: Hill
out: WHE

If we do go this way think it pretty much rules Frampton out for the year, except as backup.

 

[Frankie23]

Serious conversation needs to be had around Howe’s position in the team - he’s really not providing much at all. His one wood (intercept possessions) is non existent, and he doesn’t provide any run or the ability to lockdown. Teams are going more mobile and he’s being left behind.

Frampton in as FB and ruck chop out allows us to free up Darcy and drop Cox.

Out Howe Cox
In Frampton Hill.

 

[LuckyLee]

Agree, his status is just too high and will get selected on reputation and long term proven form. Will survive unless form drops away.

His form - as a defender - has already dropped away significantly, post surgery. Howe’s a champion though, so hopefully he regains his confidence and daring. If not, Frampton awaits.


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[3rdMan]

Disagree that Howe's any chance to be dropped or that his form's been poor. His first two games were very good, and in each game has at least given us good bounce from defence. His offensive game, even aside from the goals when moved forward, was strong against Carlton. Had a bad matchup defensively in Martin on the weekend, but that's it.

No chance Frampton comes in for him. If Frampton was to replace anyone it would have to be Murphy, but don't see it happening at all. Defence is our best line and won't be tampered with. Frampton to remain as backup.

 

[anshell]

I can see the merit in Howe playing up forward,but if we move him up there permanently then that’s going to leave the backline exposed with only Moore and Murphy as our talls.And as we know,Murphy really isn’t that tall.If we are considering moving Howe up forward full time,then Frampton needs to come in to give the backline some much needed height.

 

[sr36]

Completely agree except it won’t happen. Interestingly enough fly said he moved Howe forward pretty much because he didn’t have a matchup in defence. In other words, he was getting belted.

For all our concern about talls up against our medium sized guys who play as talls, teams are going to go small against us - as we kill long balls to talls and also storm out on the rebound. Our danger is blokes playing like flankers and dropping into space and then those flankers will do a better job of restricting our rebound than talls will. I think a third defender playing as a tall is going to be surplus against most teams.

 

[3rdMan]

Completely agree except it won’t happen. Interestingly enough fly said he moved Howe forward pretty much because he didn’t have a matchup in defence. In other words, he was getting belted.

No, the actual words suffice. He didn't have a matchup. Blues had a small forward line so he was left to play on the more mobile Martin which is not ideal. This would have been worse, not better, if Frampton was playing instead. Neither Frampton or Murphy are good matchups for smalls.

 

[sr36]

Disagree that Howe's any chance to be dropped or that his form's been poor. His first two games were very good, and in each game has at least given us good bounce from defence. His offensive game, even aside from the goals when moved forward, was strong against Carlton. Had a bad matchup defensively in Martin on the weekend, but that's it.

No chance Frampton comes in for him. If Frampton was to replace anyone it would have to be Murphy, but don't see it happening at all. Defence is our best line and won't be tampered with. Frampton to remain as backup.

I'd play him as a swingman. I don't think he'll be necessary in defence most games from here. A small forward line is the way to go against us.

 

[3rdMan]

For all our concern about talls up against our medium sized guys who play as talls, teams are going to go small against us - as we kill long balls to talls and also storm out on the rebound. Our danger is blokes playing like flankers and dropping into space and then those flankers will do a better job of restricting our rebound than talls will. I think a third defender playing as a tall is going to be surplus against most teams.

Agreed. Blues took 10 marks inside 50, nothing to suggest we needed more talls in defence. We're not going to make changes there.

 

[Scodog10]

interesting, that Fly alluded to his body of work over the whole season and not recent games .... make what you will of that. He also said that we dont turn the whole system upside down based on a few recent efforst essentially...

I made that they were particularly weird comments in the context of Cox’s abysmal current form especially when we next come up against his career worst matchup, Sicily, have 3 players ready and raring to go at VFL level and McRae essentially turned the system upside down by throwing Howe forward. The system would remain unchanged if Frampton returns.

 

[LuckyLee]

Disagree that Howe's any chance to be dropped or that his form's been poor. His first two games were very good, and in each game has at least given us good bounce from defence. His offensive game, even aside from the goals when moved forward, was strong against Carlton. Had a bad matchup defensively in Martin on the weekend, but that's it.

No chance Frampton comes in for him. If Frampton was to replace anyone it would have to be Murphy, but don't see it happening at all. Defence is our best line and won't be tampered with. Frampton to remain as backup.

For mine it’s not so much about replacing Howe, it’s about freeing-up Moore to roam around and be really damaging. To do that, we need another key defender - Frampton. To get Frampton in, someone has to go out. Howe has looked the most surplus to needs since returning from injury.

It might seem harsh but freeing up Moore is hugely important for our Premiership chances.

There’s no room for sentimentality in pursuit of a Premiership. Just like 2010, when Lockyer, Medhurst and O’Bree were all squeezed out. It’s a ruthless business.


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[sr36]

Agreed. Blues took 10 marks inside 50, nothing to suggest we needed more talls in defence. We're not going to make changes there.

The worst way to attack us it to kick it long to a tall contest. Loading up the forward line with three talls to take advantage of our mediums is fools good - Moore and Murphy kill it. Then with an extra tall, it's easier for us to chain up with handballs and slingshot it forward.

Curnow kicked 6 - but it was one contested mark against Bruzzy, a brilliant roving goal and 4 free kicks - 1 in a ruck contest, one high tackle - two frees in marking contests - the first one dodgy if you ask me and the second silly form Moore.