Strategy Changes & Pre-match Discussion - Round 22 vs. Geelong, MCG, Fri 11/08, 7:50pm

[brysie]

I'd like to see a lineup that looks something like this for the remaining 3 games of the season:

FF: Elliott Mihocek Ginnivan
HF: Hill McStay McCreery
C: Sidebottom Maynard J Daicos
HB: Pendlebury Moore Crisp
FB: Quaynor Frampton Markov
R: Cox De Goey Mitchell
Int: Adams, Hoskin-Elliott, Howe, Johnson
Sub: Lipinski

The line-ball calls for me are Ginnivan/Lipinski, with Hill playing forward pocket if Lipinski is preferred over Ginnivan. Johnson's game on Saturday was typically casual, bereft of any impact, therefore I'd look to play him as a second ruck (to avoid McStay having to play this role), as having someone like Cameron as ruck doesn't appear to conform with our coaching philosophy where we look to inject speed.

There are question marks over a number of players at the moment. I see the key for us as having the ability to at least break even at stoppages; part of this requires our inside midfielders to stick tackles, as when they don't the opposition find it easier to get the ball to the outside. This also means players like McCreery, Adams and Maynard need to start attending centre bounces.

 

[sr36]

The Ginnivan of 22 is in our best team - I never claimed otherwise, and dearly hope he can get back to that level. But he’s well short of it at present.

Common sense tends to be a popular thought process - I doubt Fly has missed its application to Ginnivan’s performances.

When someone offers a more plausible explanation of why Ginnivan is not being selected then of course I’ll listen.

I think the reason for his non-selection has been pretty obvious. We want someone quicker inside 50 and thus have asked Ginni to play higher up the ground and he doesn't play higher up the ground well enough yet to justify selection.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I didn't miss the context of your claim that teams are always up for us - it just doesn't fit with your other claim that we've been playing poorly for ages yet are at 16-4. And if you're setting the playing poorly bar at not winning every quarter - then we've actually been playng poorly all year - luckily for us all other teams have been playing more poorly than us.

We've been flat the last fortnight and had some flat spots in earlier games that we'd had covered. We may also need to make some game plan tweaks. But anyone who is melting doesn't seem to get that it is a really even comp and we were never miles ahead of the rest of the comp. Some seem to have marked us down for the flag and expected us to barnstorm every quarter and are having a hissy fit because they realise there's a bloody good chance that we don't win it. However, there's also a decent chance that we do win it. Anyone who has gone into doomsday - we won't win another game scenarios is one hell of a drama queen.

Anyway, I'm going to leave it there, as the spiralling into gloom during an outstanding season to date is ridiculous. We're top of the ladder - two games clear.

'Melting', 'spiralling into gloom', 'gone into doomsday' - it's uncanny how you are able to read my mind, almost like you've taken up residence inside my head!

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

King lost me when he named Pendlebury.

Really? I thought he has been very average the last few weeks.

 

[No SPIN]

I think the reason for his non-selection has been pretty obvious. We want someone quicker inside 50 and thus have asked Ginni to play higher up the ground and he doesn't play higher up the ground well enough yet to justify selection.

Ginnivan needing to add a more rounded game is exactly what I’ve been arguing, and therefore agree the above would help enormously.

 

[domus]

If

Seems old mate king had a sneak peak on this forum after the game, amazing how people turn so quick.

If our flag chances hang upon the health of a 20 year old kid then shame on us, we don't deserve one.

 

[sam_e]

I think the reason for his non-selection has been pretty obvious. We want someone quicker inside 50 and thus have asked Ginni to play higher up the ground and he doesn't play higher up the ground well enough yet to justify selection.

Yeah agree. Ginni's deep I50 pure crumbing role, of last year, has been taken by Hill (who is also capable of getting back D50 & slingshot forward with pace) and so he's competing with Lipinski for that high half-forward role.

Both Lipinski and Ginni have neat skills, lack pure leg-speed and are weak in the tackle & pressure stakes. Lipinski supposedly is one of our better aerobic runners (GPS stats), also referred to by Fly as a 'good connector' in the team; whilst Ginni is the more dangerous forward who can sniff out goals. The high HFF also needs to join stoppages and contribute to those contests as well as pattern running to set up the defensive grid.

If you're looking for a like-for-like(ish) in that role, then Ginni v Lipinski. If you're looking for a more defensive runner with ability to mark then throw WHE in the mix for that spot.

ps: Lipinski has been extremely poor IMO, since his return, particularly in the defensive / pressure aspects of the game (tackling, i50 pressure, defensive running) and his 'connection' and goal assists are in no way outweighing his poor form. I'd rather play a defensive, pace fuelled, tackling animal in that role ..we haven't really got one unless you throw Noble forward and use Markov to backfill down back.

 

[domus]

Ginnivan needing to add a more rounded game is exactly what I’ve been arguing, and therefore agree with the above.

Hill is quick and did nothing other than kick a junk time goal. Speed matters but so does footy nous.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

No, I missed the footage. I was at the ground and unlike most weeks I did not rush home to catch the replay.

Actually, for the first time in years I left early. Clearance count was still 15-2 when I decided to skip out and catch dinner in Richmond.

He had a big brown patch a little larger than those balls our players hand to the crowd after the game on his outer right thigh. However, who knows whether he had it prior to the game and aggravated it or acquired it during the game and was consequently subbed.

 

[No SPIN]

Hill is quick and did nothing other than kick a junk time goal. Speed matters but so does footy nous.

Do you think Ginnivan would have lost his spot if he had pace?

I agree Ginnivan has elite footy IQ - but that’s not helping when he can’t chase down an opponent, or break lines or sprint into fwd positions or take territory with electrifying runs like Hill.

If Ginnivan had pace Bobby would be playing VFL.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

This is exactly the kind of media reporting we need to trigger the desired response from the playing group.

The players mentioned will likely ignore it, but I hope they don't.

Collingwood does "backs against the wall" very well, having said that Mitchell's first 12 rounds compared to the last 6 are night and day. He must be carrying something, no other way to explain this slide.

Totally agree and don't understand why some posters are incensed by a very fair analysis of our recent decline in performance.

 

[windchimes]

Gin will be picked if Fly thinks he can contribute to wining the game.
That is the sole focus.

Beat Geelong.

Well said Jmac, as simply put as it is. I don't think disposal count (at any level) is the primary KPI that Ginni is assessed on, much the same as Hill and McCreery.

Whether or not Fly and the crew think Ginni could bring something to help us get the job done on friday night is something we all know sweet FA about, but I guess we'll find out if he's selected, and until then posters are allowed to have him in their changes if they please.

The amount of pedantry going on in thread is just ridiculous.

 

[jathanas]

Totally agree and don't understand why some posters are incensed by a very fair analysis of our recent decline in performance.

It's 100% predictable that the AFL media would focus on the top team after it drops 2 games in a row. They're not doing their job if they don't, and this being Collingwood makes it even bigger news.

I don't see this as a sign of terminal decline for the Pies, but it's going to be a hell of a challenge to turn it around.

I'm an optimist by nature so I expect that they will. I won't let shitness of the last 2 weeks completely override what this group has been able to achieve.

 

[YouBeauty]

im sad

 

[unplugged]

With the media calling us Marshmallow Magpies etc, if we don't get a reaction this week I don't know when we will!

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

It's 100% predictable that the AFL media would focus on the top team after it drops 2 games in a row. They're not doing their job if they don't, and this being Collingwood makes it even bigger news.

I see this as a sign of terminal decline for the Pies, but it's going to be a hell of a challenge to turn it around.

I'm an optimist by nature so I expect that they will. I won't let shitness of the last 2 weeks completely override what this group has been able to achieve.

Hopefully the boys will stop smelling the roses and take heed of the thorns.

 

[sr36]

Yeah agree. Ginni's deep I50 pure crumbing role, of last year, has been taken by Hill (who is also capable of getting back D50 & slingshot forward with pace) and so he's competing with Lipinski for that high half-forward role.

Both Lipinski and Ginni have neat skills, lack pure leg-speed and are weak in the tackle & pressure stakes. Lipinski supposedly is one of our better aerobic runners (GPS stats), also referred to by Fly as a 'good connector' in the team; whilst Ginni is the more dangerous forward who can sniff out goals. The high HFF also needs to join stoppages and contribute to those contests as well as pattern running to set up the defensive grid.

If you're looking for a like-for-like(ish) in that role, then Ginni v Lipinski. If you're looking for a more defensive runner with ability to mark then throw WHE in the mix for that spot.

ps: Lipinski has been extremely poor IMO, since his return, particularly in the defensive / pressure aspects of the game (tackling, i50 pressure, defensive running) and his 'connection' and goal assists are in no way outweighing his poor form. I'd rather play a defensive, pace fuelled, tackling animal in that role ..we haven't really got one unless you throw Noble forward and use Markov to backfill down back.

Recently it's been Elliott not Hill deep, and he's killing it.

I think Ginnis only AFL relevant role is inside 50. There's an outside chance they decide they need Elliott's contest and pressure higher up the ground and Ginni gets another shot, but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[sr36]

With the media calling us Marshmallow Magpies etc, if we don't get a reaction this week I don't know when we will!

Finals

 

[jmac70]

im sad

Don’t worry, be happy

 

[BEEG]

That match day thread as an embarrassment.

Carlton turned their form around, so can we. I’m glad the players arent as fickle as this board. I doubt they are sitting in the rooms going “ah well, season over”

Have to wait for injuries and vfl game. Given that’s basically full strength side it’s tough as nobody played well..

Watch on ginni, cox and kreugs tomorrow

Yeah we get it, one eyed fan, super magpie fan.

Well done.

 

[Bramax]

I want RamBeau playing on ball from here on. We’d welcome an injection of toughness and pace into the midfield.

 

[Bramax]

This is exactly the kind of media reporting we need to trigger the desired response from the playing group.

The players mentioned will likely ignore it, but I hope they don't.

Collingwood does "backs against the wall" very well, having said that Mitchell's first 12 rounds compared to the last 6 are night and day. He must be carrying something, no other way to explain this slide.

It will be posted all over the walls pre-game. Fly will use it.

 

[adammania9]

Conversely, we have the very real and established “loading” programs that occur approaching finals, which could well explain the spluttering form of all the top 4 teams.

I’ve read the term loading programs numerous times now and not gonna lie I don’t know what it is and I suspect I wouldn’t be alone. Can somebody please explain like I’m 10 years old what it is exactly?

 

[Jelly Bean]

I want RamBeau playing on ball from here on. We’d welcome an injection of toughness and pace into the midfield.

In short bursts, I agree. He doesn't have the tank be a full time mid, but 5-6 min a quarter would be great to see.

 

[jmac70]

I’ve read the term loading programs numerous times now and not gonna lie I don’t know what it is and I suspect I wouldn’t be alone. Can somebody please explain like I’m 10 years old what it is exactly?

It’s a program in which players are given increased loads.