Strategy Changes & Pre-match Discussion - GRAND FINAL vs. Brisbane MCG, 2:30pm Sat 30/09

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riddick78

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Nick will be better for the run he had on Friday - he only had 28 disposals, 6 clearances and 520 metres gained. ;)
That's equivalent to zero brownlow votes
Frampton isn’t a forward. It would be a mistake to play him simply because he’s tall (as a forward). He won’t compete well enough, and bris will have a field day rebounding

May as well play Steene
Could play him as a defensive forward, but Frampton, McInnis and Kreger haven't played AFL in a while, not sure it's a game you'd want to throw a player in and hope.

If Adams is fit, he comes straight in, not sure about the fwd line problem, but don't change the backline, (sorry Johnny ******* Noble), our backline has been solid, just need someone to stay back of the pack and watch Cameron.
 

Kirby

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How serious and dour looking were the Brisbane players at last night's Brownlow broadcast.

They could hardly raise a smile and have their game face on already.

I remember back in 2003 our players were the same - everyone looked serious, deadpan and in the zone all week leading up to the GF. I remember thinking how switched on we were and that this was a good thing leading in. I was wrong and we got belted in that grannie by 12 goals.

Our boys look relaxed, smiling, engaging in conversation. Enjoying the moment. Have a look at our boys joking around with each other at training.

Brisbane may just choke themselves to death by Saturday.
 

ksardog

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WHE has been playing defence and spoiling everything. He could play a similar role to Howe in the forward line. WHE could probably keep up with Andrews on a lead

I’d just play WHE on Andrews and instruct him to never go for a mark in a contested situation. Just spoil the ball.

he wouldnt have anywhere near the height, better match up for WHE is Coleman
 

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NMBB

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Thinking of enrolling in a philosophy course in case the unthinkable happens and I need to reconcile my life's purpose with the vicissitudes dealt out by the universe

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RobJD

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But that's the point, after Mihocek we've lost our next best tall forward options in McStay and Johnson.

If Johnson had of returned to full training last week I would have been prepared to get behind any call to include him.

I'm not prepared to do the same for Kreuger because his exposed form at AFL level alongside his habit of getting injured means I can't trust him for such an important game.

While I'm not against Frampton as much as some because I don't believe the narrative that he'll be in the side as a full time forward I still come back to the question of whether we're better served selecting him purely for "structure" ahead of picking better footballers for our GF 22 like Adams, Noble or Ginnivan.

I believe we are better served adding another small and rearranging the 23 from last week to cover for McStay.

With the weather forecast and a reliance on a group of slow mids in Pendlebury, Mitchell, Lipinski and Sidebottom I really worry about our ability to cover the spread from the contest of the Brisbane midfield the further the match goes on.

I want more run ahead of a not quite right tall option.
The Lion's midfield is not quick - they're very one paced and Jordy, Naics and Daics (and Billy E) will trouble them with their speed. The Lion's run comes from their small forwards plying high, and their running half backs - centre clearance will be key for us as they don't have any match for our speed out of the centre break.
Their backline isn't tall - other than Andrews, they don't have a defender taller than 192cm - so if our best chance of a score is out of the centre break, then I like a set-up like Port Adelaide (another side that had the Lions for speed out of the centre), we need a defensive forward who will drag Andrew's back into the square and keep him there (or at the least, prevent Andrews from the forceful spike that feeds the Lions crumbers at the front of the marking pack), this allows Mihocek to play on either Gardiner or Lester - both of these are a favourable matchup as Brodie has Lester for strength and Gardiner for speed (I'm hoping that Gardiner struggles this week 2nd game up, playing on a hot day after running with Curnow last week - noticed that he was having a lot of massage work put into his legs in the last quarter on Saturday) - neither is taller than Brodie and when Brodie gets beaten, it's generally for height, not speed or strength.
Off the half back, we need to limit the amount of time that Kiddy has to dispose of the ball - he doesn't get a lot of it, but when he does get it with time and space, he's lethal - so it's Lippa onto Kiddy to restrict the number of kicks he has (he can handball all day, that's not going to hurt us). McCreery to McKenna to get full value out of the pressure he'll put on him - I'm looking to McCreery to force McKenna into handballs, as he tends to stuff them up under pressure (not a natural part of his game) - so hoping his strong tackles result in free kicks (whereas Lippa's pressure simply needs to force Kiddy into handballs).
The role of Cox and Cameron is to run the Big O into the ground and to keep him away from the Lion's forward line - he's their key contested marking option (Daniher and Hipwood are more leading targets than contested marking forwards). If Frampton can keep Andrews deep then Cox/Cameron can run forward agressively where they have a height advantage over the other Lions backs. So they become the marking option for the down the line kick and the long bomb into F50. Frampton could also provide a ruck option late in the game - hopefully the Big O is cooked by then, we're 5 goals up and he's rucking like Brody Grundy (dropping the ball at his feet and Tayz/Titch are jumping on the ball to force another stoppage).

So that's my argument for including Billy Frampton as a replacement for Dan - not to play the Dan McStay role, but as a deep forward option that limits the influence of Andrews (just like Ollie Lord did in the Qualifying final).
 

Piewithsauce13

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Got through the night ok. Currently standing in the sun in our front courtyard and kids are keeping an eye on every 5 mins haha. Hoping parents come back at some point today!
UPDATE: Went out to give Darcy some water and he was moving around more than I had seen. He walked over to our fence and I opened it, he walked out and up on the power lines were two older Maggie’s (assuming mum and dad). He stumbled to start but eventually flew and can happily say Darcy was reunited with his parents and the 3 flew away together! ⚫⚪⚫⚪
 

sam_e

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The Lion's midfield is not quick - they're very one paced and Jordy, Naics and Daics (and Billy E) will trouble them with their speed. The Lion's run comes from their small forwards plying high, and their running half backs - centre clearance will be key for us as they don't have any match for our speed out of the centre break.
Their backline isn't tall - other than Andrews, they don't have a defender taller than 192cm - so if our best chance of a score is out of the centre break, then I like a set-up like Port Adelaide (another side that had the Lions for speed out of the centre), we need a defensive forward who will drag Andrew's back into the square and keep him there (or at the least, prevent Andrews from the forceful spike that feeds the Lions crumbers at the front of the marking pack), this allows Mihocek to play on either Gardiner or Lester - both of these are a favourable matchup as Brodie has Lester for strength and Gardiner for speed (I'm hoping that Gardiner struggles this week 2nd game up, playing on a hot day after running with Curnow last week - noticed that he was having a lot of massage work put into his legs in the last quarter on Saturday) - neither is taller than Brodie and when Brodie gets beaten, it's generally for height, not speed or strength.
Off the half back, we need to limit the amount of time that Kiddy has to dispose of the ball - he doesn't get a lot of it, but when he does get it with time and space, he's lethal - so it's Lippa onto Kiddy to restrict the number of kicks he has (he can handball all day, that's not going to hurt us). McCreery to McKenna to get full value out of the pressure he'll put on him - I'm looking to McCreery to force McKenna into handballs, as he tends to stuff them up under pressure (not a natural part of his game) - so hoping his strong tackles result in free kicks (whereas Lippa's pressure simply needs to force Kiddy into handballs).
The role of Cox and Cameron is to run the Big O into the ground and to keep him away from the Lion's forward line - he's their key contested marking option (Daniher and Hipwood are more leading targets than contested marking forwards). If Frampton can keep Andrews deep then Cox/Cameron can run forward agressively where they have a height advantage over the other Lions backs. So they become the marking option for the down the line kick and the long bomb into F50. Frampton could also provide a ruck option late in the game - hopefully the Big O is cooked by then, we're 5 goals up and he's rucking like Brody Grundy (dropping the ball at his feet and Tayz/Titch are jumping on the ball to force another stoppage).

So that's my argument for including Billy Frampton as a replacement for Dan - not to play the Dan McStay role, but as a deep forward option that limits the influence of Andrews (just like Ollie Lord did in the Qualifying final).
Excellent post.
 

JuniorB

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The Lion's midfield is not quick - they're very one paced and Jordy, Naics and Daics (and Billy E) will trouble them with their speed. The Lion's run comes from their small forwards plying high, and their running half backs - centre clearance will be key for us as they don't have any match for our speed out of the centre break.
Their backline isn't tall - other than Andrews, they don't have a defender taller than 192cm - so if our best chance of a score is out of the centre break, then I like a set-up like Port Adelaide (another side that had the Lions for speed out of the centre), we need a defensive forward who will drag Andrew's back into the square and keep him there (or at the least, prevent Andrews from the forceful spike that feeds the Lions crumbers at the front of the marking pack), this allows Mihocek to play on either Gardiner or Lester - both of these are a favourable matchup as Brodie has Lester for strength and Gardiner for speed (I'm hoping that Gardiner struggles this week 2nd game up, playing on a hot day after running with Curnow last week - noticed that he was having a lot of massage work put into his legs in the last quarter on Saturday) - neither is taller than Brodie and when Brodie gets beaten, it's generally for height, not speed or strength.
Off the half back, we need to limit the amount of time that Kiddy has to dispose of the ball - he doesn't get a lot of it, but when he does get it with time and space, he's lethal - so it's Lippa onto Kiddy to restrict the number of kicks he has (he can handball all day, that's not going to hurt us). McCreery to McKenna to get full value out of the pressure he'll put on him - I'm looking to McCreery to force McKenna into handballs, as he tends to stuff them up under pressure (not a natural part of his game) - so hoping his strong tackles result in free kicks (whereas Lippa's pressure simply needs to force Kiddy into handballs).
The role of Cox and Cameron is to run the Big O into the ground and to keep him away from the Lion's forward line - he's their key contested marking option (Daniher and Hipwood are more leading targets than contested marking forwards). If Frampton can keep Andrews deep then Cox/Cameron can run forward agressively where they have a height advantage over the other Lions backs. So they become the marking option for the down the line kick and the long bomb into F50. Frampton could also provide a ruck option late in the game - hopefully the Big O is cooked by then, we're 5 goals up and he's rucking like Brody Grundy (dropping the ball at his feet and Tayz/Titch are jumping on the ball to force another stoppage).

So that's my argument for including Billy Frampton as a replacement for Dan - not to play the Dan McStay role, but as a deep forward option that limits the influence of Andrews (just like Ollie Lord did in the Qualifying final).
The only thing with Lippa is he may not be quick enough to run with Coleman.
 

SuperSteele22

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I wasn't confident last Saturday evening and somehow I'm even less confident now. Please for f* sake someone help me fire the f* up and convince me football's coming home
 

sam_e

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Apologies to those who don’t wish to see gambling discussed, but in the last 24 hours the Pies have gone from $1.87 to $1.77 for no discernible reason. Notable given the large hold on the market.
Any injury news floating about under the cloak of a round 6 Brownlow vote?
 

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NMBB

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UPDATE: Went out to give Darcy some water and he was moving around more than I had seen. He walked over to our fence and I opened it, he walked out and up on the power lines were two older Maggie’s (assuming mum and dad). He stumbled to start but eventually flew and can happily say Darcy was reunited with his parents and the 3 flew away together! ⚫⚪⚫⚪
Well done - fantastic!
 

RobJD

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UPDATE: Went out to give Darcy some water and he was moving around more than I had seen. He walked over to our fence and I opened it, he walked out and up on the power lines were two older Maggie’s (assuming mum and dad). He stumbled to start but eventually flew and can happily say Darcy was reunited with his parents and the 3 flew away together! ⚫⚪⚫⚪
Thanks for a lovely story: Go Pies
 

Kes1984

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UPDATE: Went out to give Darcy some water and he was moving around more than I had seen. He walked over to our fence and I opened it, he walked out and up on the power lines were two older Maggie’s (assuming mum and dad). He stumbled to start but eventually flew and can happily say Darcy was reunited with his parents and the 3 flew away together! ⚫⚪⚫⚪
a happy ending, just like we'll have on Saturday arvo
 

No SPIN

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The Lion's midfield is not quick - they're very one paced and Jordy, Naics and Daics (and Billy E) will trouble them with their speed. The Lion's run comes from their small forwards plying high, and their running half backs - centre clearance will be key for us as they don't have any match for our speed out of the centre break.
Their backline isn't tall - other than Andrews, they don't have a defender taller than 192cm - so if our best chance of a score is out of the centre break, then I like a set-up like Port Adelaide (another side that had the Lions for speed out of the centre), we need a defensive forward who will drag Andrew's back into the square and keep him there (or at the least, prevent Andrews from the forceful spike that feeds the Lions crumbers at the front of the marking pack), this allows Mihocek to play on either Gardiner or Lester - both of these are a favourable matchup as Brodie has Lester for strength and Gardiner for speed (I'm hoping that Gardiner struggles this week 2nd game up, playing on a hot day after running with Curnow last week - noticed that he was having a lot of massage work put into his legs in the last quarter on Saturday) - neither is taller than Brodie and when Brodie gets beaten, it's generally for height, not speed or strength.
Off the half back, we need to limit the amount of time that Kiddy has to dispose of the ball - he doesn't get a lot of it, but when he does get it with time and space, he's lethal - so it's Lippa onto Kiddy to restrict the number of kicks he has (he can handball all day, that's not going to hurt us). McCreery to McKenna to get full value out of the pressure he'll put on him - I'm looking to McCreery to force McKenna into handballs, as he tends to stuff them up under pressure (not a natural part of his game) - so hoping his strong tackles result in free kicks (whereas Lippa's pressure simply needs to force Kiddy into handballs).
The role of Cox and Cameron is to run the Big O into the ground and to keep him away from the Lion's forward line - he's their key contested marking option (Daniher and Hipwood are more leading targets than contested marking forwards). If Frampton can keep Andrews deep then Cox/Cameron can run forward agressively where they have a height advantage over the other Lions backs. So they become the marking option for the down the line kick and the long bomb into F50. Frampton could also provide a ruck option late in the game - hopefully the Big O is cooked by then, we're 5 goals up and he's rucking like Brody Grundy (dropping the ball at his feet and Tayz/Titch are jumping on the ball to force another stoppage).

So that's my argument for including Billy Frampton as a replacement for Dan - not to play the Dan McStay role, but as a deep forward option that limits the influence of Andrews (just like Ollie Lord did in the Qualifying final).
great post - you've nailed it. Frampton offers far more options for Fly to shift magnets and find winning combinations, than any other inclusion.
And you've proved the idea of going small has little merit accordingly.
 

The Royal Sampler

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Any injury news floating about under the cloak of a round 6 Brownlow vote?

I can’t see him being seriously hampered by that shoulder. Mitchell shouldn’t be an issue for us, either, nor Moore’s ankle. The only relevant updates would be around Adams in or Payne continuing to miss. It’s hard to see what is driving this move.
 

Exambolor

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Remember the last time a Pies player was robbed of a Brownlow, he won the premiership a few days later. That man? Dane Swan
 

peter9789

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I see plenty of rational arguments presented here for the inclusion of Krueger or Frampton, and pushing Howe forward. I'm in the Kreuger camp I must say as he has shown more forward craft and more closely resembles our current structure. My views have been swayed by some excellent posts.

Having said that, I can understand the club erring on the side of caution and going with Frampton.

I think we will bring a tall in. When the going gets tough in a GF you need the tall guys who can clunk marks around the ground to give time to set up down the field. Having another runner in my view wont help us.

The fitness of Adams - we will have to wait and see. If he goes out we bring in Johnny F****n Noble. Keeping Ginni as the sub.

Playing at home on the MCG, having almost an extra day break, and knowing it will be warm (not humid like in Brisbane) I think this favours us.

Whilst we are lamenting the loss of McStay, Lions have their own injury worries with Jack Payne who played every game this year (replaced by Gardiner who has only played 3 games), and a huge loss of Ashcroft, although a 1st year player was comfortably inside their best 18 and would have started on GF day

In terms of GF experience 10 of our guys who will run out on Saturday played in the 2018 decider.

For Brisbane GF experience
  • Lachie Neale - 2013 Fremantle (lost to Hawthorn)
  • Charlie Cameron - 2017 Adelaide (smashed by Richmond power ranger style)
  • Josh Dunkley - (2016 Premiership, and 2020 smashed by Melbourne)
We know GF week and the match itself is like a season within itself. So much scrutiny, hyperbole, and catastrophising of scenarios. Seriously you think McStay was Plugger Lockett and Buddy Franklin in one.

Seen and been to a lot of Grand Finals in my lifetime - this will be my 12th for only 2 flags.

All that being said, we have to absolutely bring our very best. That means high risk / reward footy and fast footy to bring our forward into the mix.

We can do it - I believe we can bring home flag number 16

GO PIES!!!!
 
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