Combined Best 22 of dynasty teams in 21st century

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Mr Meow

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 7, 2016
13,223
20,818
AFL Club
Geelong
Reluctant to select a team here, because I missed large patches of particularly Brisbane's dynasty era. I am pretty well across the rest.

I will have a go from my overall impressions. I am picking a team to beat the best ever team in a Grand Final. No bullshit criteria, the best players to play in these dynasty teams are IN, based on their peak dynasty form. I want speed and running ability on most lines so I am not going to necessarily load up with too many strong players who don't have speed.

Defence

B: Grimes Rance Lake
HB: Hodge(v/c) Houli Enright

7th defender Scarlett

Defence summary - Trying to balance this defence was not easy, I would have like one more damaging runner. This was a little bit difficult to find from these teams, the best of that type probably Short from Richmond but too many better players than him to get him in, especially as he missed the start of the dynasty.

Unluckiest: Burgoyne, Johnson, Vlastuin


Wings

3 wingers who can actually play the position(at least one who is also a serious inside mid) :

Smith Akermanis Lappin

Wing summary - No perfunctory wingers here. Players who can actually play the position with zip and skill.

Unluckiest: can't really think of any.

Ruck:

Ottens/Roughead


Ruck summary - I want a second ruck, must be able to do damage forward. Roughead seems the best available for that role. Ottens seems to select himself in this team as first ruck.

Unluckiest: Hawkins almost for the 2nd ruck berth, not sure he ranges around the ground as well, and was

4 inside mids:

Black Mitchell Ablett Voss


Inside mid summary - I have great speed on the wings and Ablett can burst clear as well as anyone. So happy to include the other 3 based on excellent big game records, and in the case of Black and Mitchell, and Ablett, great kicking skills.

Unluckiest: Selwood, Cotchin. Great players, great leaders.


Forwards

HF: C Rioli Chapman Martin(Capt)

FF: Franklin A Lynch Breust

7th forward: Roughead

Summary: In terms of the dynasty periods Franklin is clear top pick key forward and Riewoldt next. Roughead in because he can ruck, just over Hawkins in that role. Martin Rioli and Breust are imo unarguable for 3 of the small/medium forward positions. Breust had an enormous record throughout Hawthorn's dynasty finals, and has had a superb career. Chapman and Johnson I didn't agonise over, someone can tell me reasons why Johnson should be ahead of Chapman and I would listen. They are both generally over-rated imo, but this does not mean they were not excellent players, and one probably has to be in this team. I wanted a player just like Shai Bolton/Betts/Cameron in this team but Bolton had not quite got to the level required to make this team by the 2020 GF, although he played an excellent match in that game.

Unluckiest: Riewoldt, Hawkins, Gunston,

Cats - 5

Lions - 5

Hawks - 8

Tigers - 4


For my sub I am happy to slot in a 6th Cat, Bartel, an adaptable player suited to the role.

So the team in the traditional format:

B: Grimes Lake Rance
HB: Houli Enright Hodge
C: Smith Ablett Akermanis
HF: C Rioli Franklin Martin
F: Breust A Lynch Roughead

R: Ottens Black Mitchell

I/C: Scarlett, Chapman, Lappin, Voss

23rd: Bartel



Clubs:


You don't win 4 flags, narrowly miss a 5th and just miss another GF and not be the best of these dynasties. Hawks rightly have the most reps with 8. People leaving out Rioli, Breust, Mitchell, give yourselves and uppercut.

Cats were very dominant in one season and beside that were strongly in the mix for 3 other seasons. They couldn't go the toe in 2010. Their players, whilst genuinely excellent, like all the other dynasty teams, are often over-rated imo. They had the most dominant scoring in finals in their dynasty years so 6 including the sub seems a reasonable representation. Some of their strength was in their multi positional players Johnson, Chapman, Bartel. I am not taking all of them so have released Johnson who can do what he does best, argue with Chapman over that position. :)

Lions were the least dominant finalists in their flag years, but got to one more GF than Richmond. Happy with the 5 Lions I have selected. Could not go past A Lynch's goal kicking record in their dynasty finals.

Tigers clearly the best defensive unit of these teams, so I want these guys in this team. And had the best finals player of them all of course, in Martin, who chooses himself as skipper of this team to play a Grand Final. Happy with 4 selections overall given this team is slightly over-shadowed by the other dynasty teams.
This makes perfect sense.

The side you showed scored the most overall, and in finals (easily), has no starting forwards and one starting midfielder.

That side conceded 2 more points per game in a higher scoring era, yet as you showed scored 23 more points per game than the side with the most miserly defence in finals. A fair bit of that had to do with elite defensive to offensive transition. This somehow leaves their defence "comfortably worse" than Richmond. A statement not borne out by AA selections, coaches votes or stats.

Scarlett on the bench, while Rance, who played in one premiership, is head honcho of the combined dynasty defence? Utterly hilarious. Oh and Grimes is ahead too.

Likewise assuming both Breust and Rioli are locks, but only one of Chapman, Bartel and SJ is necessary in the best 22.
 
May 5, 2016
42,694
47,797
AFL Club
Geelong
What’s the criteria? Performance in the flag years / dynasty period? Or just quality as a
player overall, so long as you played in at least 1 x dynasty flag?

Example Buddy didn’t play in 2014-15, and 2013 wasn’t a great year for him … 60-goals, 11 goal assists, didn’t make AA and just 5 Brownlow votes. Didn’t make top-10 in B&F.

Same as JB … was a terrific player, but across 2001-2003 kicked a total of 79 goals in 63 games. His dynasty performances weren’t anywhere near those of Roughead who kicked 197 goals across 2013-15.

And I know you mentioned team balance, but not sure Birchall get selected on a GF team sheet ahead of the likes of … Roughy, Cotchin, Rance, Riewoldt.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com


Criteria?

Just particular 30-second fragments of grand finals that Meteoric Rise determines were the only measuring sticks of a team’s ability.
 

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Fadge

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 4, 2007
17,110
16,496
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Reluctant to select a team here, because I missed large patches of particularly Brisbane's dynasty era. I am pretty well across the rest.

I will have a go from my overall impressions. I am picking a team to beat the best ever team in a Grand Final. No bullshit criteria, the best players to play in these dynasty teams are IN, based on their peak dynasty form. I want speed and running ability on most lines so I am not going to necessarily load up with too many strong players who don't have speed.

Defence

B: Grimes Rance Lake
HB: Hodge(v/c) Houli Enright

7th defender Scarlett

Defence summary - Trying to balance this defence was not easy, I would have like one more damaging runner. This was a little bit difficult to find from these teams, the best of that type probably Short from Richmond but too many better players than him to get him in, especially as he missed the start of the dynasty.

Unluckiest: Burgoyne, Johnson, Vlastuin


Wings

3 wingers who can actually play the position(at least one who is also a serious inside mid) :

Smith Akermanis Lappin

Wing summary - No perfunctory wingers here. Players who can actually play the position with zip and skill.

Unluckiest: can't really think of any.

Ruck:

Ottens/Roughead


Ruck summary - I want a second ruck, must be able to do damage forward. Roughead seems the best available for that role. Ottens seems to select himself in this team as first ruck.

Unluckiest: Hawkins almost for the 2nd ruck berth, not sure he ranges around the ground as well, and was largely short of his best when the Geelong dynasty was happening.

4 inside mids:

Black Mitchell Ablett Voss


Inside mid summary - I have great speed on the wings and Ablett can burst clear as well as anyone. So happy to include the other 3 based on excellent big game records, and in the case of Black and Mitchell, and Ablett, great kicking skills.

Unluckiest: Selwood, Cotchin. Great players, great leaders.


Forwards

HF: C Rioli Chapman Martin(Capt)

FF: Franklin A Lynch Breust

7th forward: Roughead

Summary: In terms of the dynasty periods Franklin is clear top pick along with Lynch. Roughead in because he can ruck, just over Hawkins in that role. Martin Rioli and Breust are imo unarguable for 3 of the small/medium forward positions. Breust had an enormous record throughout Hawthorn's dynasty finals, and has had a superb career. Chapman and Johnson I didn't agonise over, someone can tell me reasons why Johnson should be ahead of Chapman and I would listen. They are both generally over-rated imo, but this does not mean they were not excellent players, and one probably has to be in this team. I wanted a player just like Shai Bolton/Betts/Cameron in this team but Bolton had not quite got to the level required to make this team by the 2020 GF, although he played an excellent match in that game.

Unluckiest: Riewoldt, Hawkins, Gunston,

Cats - 5 + sub, so 6

Lions - 5

Hawks - 8

Tigers - 4


For my sub I am happy to slot in a 6th Cat, Bartel, an adaptable player suited to the role.

So the team in the traditional format:

B: Grimes Lake Rance
HB: Houli Enright Hodge
C: Smith Ablett Akermanis
HF: C Rioli Franklin Martin
F: Breust A Lynch Roughead

R: Ottens Black Mitchell

I/C: Scarlett, Chapman, Lappin, Voss

23rd: Bartel



Clubs:


You don't win 4 flags, narrowly miss a 5th and just miss another GF and not be the best of these dynasties. Hawks rightly have the most reps with 8. People leaving out Rioli, Breust, Mitchell, give yourselves and uppercut.

Cats were very dominant in one season and beside that were strongly in the mix for 3 other seasons. They couldn't go the toe in 2010. Their players, whilst genuinely excellent, like all the other dynasty teams, are often over-rated imo. They had the most dominant scoring in finals in their dynasty years so 6 including the sub seems a reasonable representation. Some of their strength was in their multi positional players Johnson, Chapman, Bartel. I am not taking all of them so have released Johnson who can do what he does best, argue with Chapman over that position. :)

Lions were the least dominant finalists in their flag years, but got to one more GF than Richmond. Happy with the 5 Lions I have selected. Could not go past A Lynch's goal kicking record in their dynasty finals.

Tigers clearly the best defensive unit of these teams, so I want these guys in this team. And had the best finals player of them all of course, in Martin, who chooses himself as skipper of this team to play a Grand Final. Happy with 4 selections overall given this team is slightly over-shadowed by the other dynasty teams.
Houli at Centre Half Back, and Martin (who has never even captained an under 12 team) as captain.

Never change, MR...
 

Cyclops

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 25, 2001
12,718
9,664
Northern Suburbs
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
IOM Gyms, Preston Nth End
In my view Aker is the best rover since Platten. I think his horrible personality and post footy ****ery costs him here but he was a matchwinner on the ball and up forward. Deeply under rated except by himself.

If you want to win a big game Dusty is first picked. Bartel Hodge Aker next.

Rance and Jonathon Brown the complete opposite, Browns best came in non finals games when Brisbane weren't contending (admittedly he was KO'd in 02 not his fault) and I've seen Rance ghost Richmond in big games while Houli and the others always fought it out.

Houli was great but he's up against Chris Johnson and Enright, no shame missing out there.

Bit of a template emerging: rucks quality less important (many get by with a lump and/or pinch hitters, Ottens the only star).

Midfield must be deep with a high proportion of hardness, disposal less important than pace.

Big forwards help but class small forwards essential.

Brilliant defence the priority with the mix of stoppers, zoners, and runners.
.
Gone are the days of Yabby Jeans "it's a simple game..." and Barrassi "long bombs to Snake".
 

JAKLAUGHING

🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆
Nov 20, 2008
34,230
62,988
Vilnius
AFL Club
Richmond
Ottens was developed at Richmond so he should count as one of ours.
Look the Rucks are even stevens imo...a case could be made for including either Keating, Nanks or Otto...not sure about the Hawks Ruck! Keating rose to the occasion come finals...Otto was serviceable(and an ordinary bell ringer)...Nanks almost an extra midfielder at the bounce...
 

JAKLAUGHING

🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆
Nov 20, 2008
34,230
62,988
Vilnius
AFL Club
Richmond
Reluctant to select a team here, because I missed large patches of particularly Brisbane's dynasty era. I am pretty well across the rest.

I will have a go from my overall impressions. I am picking a team to beat the best ever team in a Grand Final. No bullshit criteria, the best players to play in these dynasty teams are IN, based on their peak dynasty form. I want speed and running ability on most lines so I am not going to necessarily load up with too many strong players who don't have speed.

Defence

B: Grimes Rance Lake
HB: Hodge(v/c) Houli Enright

7th defender Scarlett

Defence summary - Trying to balance this defence was not easy, I would have like one more damaging runner. This was a little bit difficult to find from these teams, the best of that type probably Short from Richmond but too many better players than him to get him in, especially as he missed the start of the dynasty.

Unluckiest: Burgoyne, Johnson, Vlastuin


Wings

3 wingers who can actually play the position(at least one who is also a serious inside mid) :

Smith Akermanis Lappin

Wing summary - No perfunctory wingers here. Players who can actually play the position with zip and skill.

Unluckiest: can't really think of any.

Ruck:

Ottens/Roughead


Ruck summary - I want a second ruck, must be able to do damage forward. Roughead seems the best available for that role. Ottens seems to select himself in this team as first ruck.

Unluckiest: Hawkins almost for the 2nd ruck berth, not sure he ranges around the ground as well, and was largely short of his best when the Geelong dynasty was happening.

4 inside mids:

Black Mitchell Ablett Voss


Inside mid summary - I have great speed on the wings and Ablett can burst clear as well as anyone. So happy to include the other 3 based on excellent big game records, and in the case of Black and Mitchell, and Ablett, great kicking skills.

Unluckiest: Selwood, Cotchin. Great players, great leaders.


Forwards

HF: C Rioli Chapman Martin(Capt)

FF: Franklin A Lynch Breust

7th forward: Roughead

Summary: In terms of the dynasty periods Franklin is clear top pick along with Lynch. Roughead in because he can ruck, just over Hawkins in that role. Martin Rioli and Breust are imo unarguable for 3 of the small/medium forward positions. Breust had an enormous record throughout Hawthorn's dynasty finals, and has had a superb career. Chapman and Johnson I didn't agonise over, someone can tell me reasons why Johnson should be ahead of Chapman and I would listen. They are both generally over-rated imo, but this does not mean they were not excellent players, and one probably has to be in this team. I wanted a player just like Shai Bolton/Betts/Cameron in this team but Bolton had not quite got to the level required to make this team by the 2020 GF, although he played an excellent match in that game.

Unluckiest: Riewoldt, Hawkins, Gunston,

Cats - 5 + sub, so 6

Lions - 5

Hawks - 8

Tigers - 4


For my sub I am happy to slot in a 6th Cat, Bartel, an adaptable player suited to the role.

So the team in the traditional format:

B: Grimes Lake Rance
HB: Houli Enright Hodge
C: Smith Ablett Akermanis
HF: C Rioli Franklin Martin
F: Breust A Lynch Roughead

R: Ottens Black Mitchell

I/C: Scarlett, Chapman, Lappin, Voss

23rd: Bartel



Clubs:


You don't win 4 flags, narrowly miss a 5th and just miss another GF and not be the best of these dynasties. Hawks rightly have the most reps with 8. People leaving out Rioli, Breust, Mitchell, give yourselves and uppercut.

Cats were very dominant in one season and beside that were strongly in the mix for 3 other seasons. They couldn't go the toe in 2010. Their players, whilst genuinely excellent, like all the other dynasty teams, are often over-rated imo. They had the most dominant scoring in finals in their dynasty years so 6 including the sub seems a reasonable representation. Some of their strength was in their multi positional players Johnson, Chapman, Bartel. I am not taking all of them so have released Johnson who can do what he does best, argue with Chapman over that position. :)

Lions were the least dominant finalists in their flag years, but got to one more GF than Richmond. Happy with the 5 Lions I have selected. Could not go past A Lynch's goal kicking record in their dynasty finals.

Tigers clearly the best defensive unit of these teams, so I want these guys in this team. And had the best finals player of them all of course, in Martin, who chooses himself as skipper of this team to play a Grand Final. Happy with 4 selections overall given this team is slightly over-shadowed by the other dynasty teams.
HAHAHAHaaaaaa you pick for speed and pick waddlers like both Martin and Gaz and leave out both Cotch and Selwood both arguably first to the contested ball and possession...speed not relevant with such great competitors...
 

JAKLAUGHING

🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆
Nov 20, 2008
34,230
62,988
Vilnius
AFL Club
Richmond
Have you named a team?

If not stfu and gtf on with it. :)
cosmo-kramer-head-nod.gif
 
I selected only from players who played in at least 3 flags(some Hawks have won 4) which leaves out the likes of Gary Ablett, Tom Hawkins and Lance Franklin.

Brian Lake, Matthew Scarlett, Chris Johnson.
Luke Hodge, Justin Leppitsch, Corey Enright.

Brad Ottens, Michael Voss, Sam Mitchell.
Simon Black, Trent Cotchin, Jimmy Bartel.

Jonathan Brown, Jack Reiwoldt, Dustin Martin.
Cyril Rioli, Alistair Lynch, Steve Johnson.

Joel Selwood, Shaun Burgoyne, Nigel Lappin, Jason Akermanis.
__________________________________

Unlucky- David Hale, Toby Nankervis, Clark Keating, Bachar Houli, Shane Edwards, Luke Bruest, Paul Chapman, Darryl White, Nick Vlastuin, Dylan Grimes, Grant Birchall.

I found it hardest to select the ruckman and to leave out Bruest and Chapman(maybe Lappin out for one of them?), tossed up Edwards or Bartel... Brown not at his best during the 3peat but I selected the team on overall career performances.

There are 59 players to select from, the Lions have 16 3 time flag winners, Cats 12, Hawks 17 and Tigers have 14.
 

Nice Swan Brother

Team Captain
Feb 13, 2022
390
490
AFL Club
Sydney
Brad Ottens being almost a unanimous selection is interesting. I am not saying there is anyone more deserving but with one AA (6 years before winning a flag, there are 2 questions.

Is Ottens underrated?
Is having a superstar ruckman that important to premiership success?
 

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Brad Ottens being almost a unanimous selection is interesting. I am not saying there is anyone more deserving but with one AA (6 years before winning a flag, there are 2 questions.

Is Ottens underrated?
Is having a superstar ruckman that important to premiership success?
I have always been of the opinion that rucks are overrated... unless you are also a star around the ground eg. Dean Cox, Max Gawn.

A good serviceable ruck who can mitigate hit outs to advantage from his opposition ruck is all that is needed in a flag side, didn't the Tigers win a flag with Grigg in the ruck.

A classy overall midfield wins flags IMO.
 
Oct 16, 2003
5,424
9,616
Murrumbeena
AFL Club
Hawthorn
The strength of a combined best 22 is obviously ridiculous so I thought I'd have a go at a "second 22" - made up entirely of players not selected by the OP. I have broken his rules and included Rance as he played in one of the flags but not included any Hawks that only featured in '08 (e.g. Crawford).

Here's my quick attempt:

B: B. Lake, A. Rance, D. Grimes
HB: S. Burgoyne, H. Taylor, B. Houli
C: I. Smith, T. Cotchin, L. Power
HF: S. Bolton, T. Hawkins, J. Gunston
F: L. Breust, J. Riewoldt, J. Roughead
R: T. Nankervis, J. Lewis, D. Prestia
I: J. Corey, B. McEvoy, C. Ling, N. Vlastuin

No doubt forgotten someone obvious but that side is still pretty damn good. I would back it to win multiple flags.
 

Noidnadroj

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 8, 2020
5,697
19,128
AFL Club
Richmond
Cotchin... wtf

Footy is not all about stats and SuperCoach points … I’ll provide a brief history lesson:

By the age of 24yo Cotchin had won 3 x B&F, made AA, won the AFLCA award and in his first year as captain as a 23yo took Richmond to the finals for the first time in 12-years.

From 2011-2015 he got 15+ Brownlow votes every season.

From 2011-2018 he got 480 coaches votes at 2.70 per game. As a guide in 2023 players averaging around 2.7 x votes per game : Libba, Viney, Taranto, Cripps … and Cotchin maintained a 2.7 average over 8 x seasons.

In 2017 he changed the way he played to better suit the team, but not better suit his own stats and accolades. He went on to captain 3 x flags, playing a crucial role in multiple finals across the dynasty - eg Lions QF 2019, Cats PF 2019, Port PF 2020… he was also one of the best on ground in 2017 QF against the Cats, breaking a 13-game losing streak and delivering Richmond their first finals win in 16-years.

So Cotchin could’ve kept playing his style of racking up touches and having at times minimal influence on the result like so many midfielders do in the modern game…..accumulating more B&F’s, getting more coaches votes, more Brownlow votes and having more impressive stats. Or he could change his game to be the selfless leader of Richmond’s chaos style to help deliver a dynasty.

I’d have Cotchin running out in a big game or cut throat final in the first handful of any combined dynasty team.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
Footy is not all about stats and SuperCoach points … I’ll provide a brief history lesson:

By the age of 24yo Cotchin had won 3 x B&F, made AA, won the AFLCA award and in his first year as captain as a 23yo took Richmond to the finals for the first time in 12-years.

From 2011-2015 he got 15+ Brownlow votes every season.

From 2011-2018 he got 480 coaches votes at 2.70 per game. As a guide in 2023 players averaging around 2.7 x votes per game : Libba, Viney, Taranto, Cripps … and Cotchin maintained a 2.7 average over 8 x seasons.

In 2017 he changed the way he played to better suit the team, but not better suit his own stats and accolades. He went on to captain 3 x flags, playing a crucial role in multiple finals across the dynasty - eg Lions QF 2019, Cats PF 2019, Port PF 2020… he was also one of the best on ground in 2017 QF against the Cats, breaking a 13-game losing streak and delivering Richmond their first finals win in 16-years.

So Cotchin could’ve kept playing his style of racking up touches and having at times minimal influence on the result like so many midfielders do in the modern game…..accumulating more B&F’s, getting more coaches votes, more Brownlow votes and having more impressive stats. Or he could change his game to be the selfless leader of Richmond’s chaos style to help deliver a dynasty.

I’d have Cotchin running out in a big game or cut throat final in the first handful of any combined dynasty team.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Cotch and Selwood are 2 blokes you go to war with every day.
 
Apr 29, 2012
24,030
34,483
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton
Please kid, the adults are talking now.
None of the Richmond players were above standard level of talent, except Dusty. You won based on a manic pressure system and by systematically infringing opponents to gain an advantage. This is well known.

Cotchin is great in the Richmond system, but wouldn't get a game in a team of champions.
 
Nov 26, 2012
7,558
8,386
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
For Cotchin and Selwood to push into this side they probably need to push out one of the inside mids who are some of the most decorated players in these teams often Brownlow winning in the premiership years. With GAJ, Voss, Mitchell and Black seemingly in most teams there is maybe one more spot available for an inside player. At the moment I have Bartel next in with a Brownlow, AAs and a Norm Smith in his dynasty years. I dont think Cotchin or Selwood can stack up to that. Even Cotchin being the captain probably isnt enough as there are multiple other premiership captains in the team.

I cant justify putting them on the wing or a flank either. There are multiple guys in those spots who are pushing into team of the century or all time discussion in those spots
 
Apr 29, 2012
24,030
34,483
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton
For Cotchin and Selwood to push into this side they probably need to push out one of the inside mids who are some of the most decorated players in these teams often Brownlow winning in the premiership years. With GAJ, Voss, Mitchell and Black seemingly in most teams there is maybe one more spot available for an inside player. At the moment I have Bartel next in with a Brownlow, AAs and a Norm Smith in his dynasty years. I dont think Cotchin or Selwood can stack up to that. Even Cotchin being the captain probably isnt enough as there are multiple other premiership captains in the team.

I cant justify putting them on the wing or a flank either. There are multiple guys in those spots who are pushing into team of the century or all time discussion in those spots
Selwood at least has leadership capabilities. But agree, he would struggle to make the side over GAJ, Voss, and Black, Mitchell is close.
 

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