Traded Dougal Howard [traded to St Kilda with Ryder in complex deal]

[The Nostradamus]

Dumont + 2020 R2 done deal apparently.

Can't wait for this generational athlete to weather the storm that is defending behind our pathetic midfield.

Overs

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Dumont is not leaving and is one of North's few two-way runners. Plus, him and a 2nd rounder is overs.

 

[Schulzenfest]

I'm more than happy keeping Dougal over a generic vanilla midfielder and a second rounder, so looks like we're all in agreement there.

 

[Quintero]

Dumont is not leaving and is one of North's few two-way runners. Plus, him and a 2nd rounder is way overs.

Port thinks it's unders, you think it's overs.

Otherwise known as fair value.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Port thinks it's unders, you think it's overs.

Otherwise known as fair value.

Considering Dumomt has consistently produced a much higher standard of footy over the journey, I would say my valuation fits reality a little bit more than your supposed Port valuation.

 

[Quintero]

Considering Dumomt has consistently produced a much higher standard of footy over the journey, I would say my valuation fits reality a little bit more than your supposed Port valuation.

Dumont has consistently shown considerably more than Larkey, who is worth more?

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Dumont has consistently shown considerably more than Larkey, who is worth more?

Larkey, who is younger than both.

Proven consistency is, however, its own commodity.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Sam Gray has consistently shown more than Jack Lukosius, so I look forward to GC offering us that straight swap in a few weeks' time.

 

[rainwizard39]

Sam Gray has consistently shown more than Jack Lukosius, so I look forward to GC offering us that straight swap in a few weeks' time.

Don’t forget about a 2nd rounder. Oh, but maybe that’s overs.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Sam Gray has consistently shown more than Jack Lukosius, so I look forward to GC offering us that straight swap in a few weeks' time.

Lol, here comes the dramatic false equivalence.

Sam Grey is a 27 year old garbage truck with multiple seasons behind him, Lukosius is a first year player, we are not comparing them.


Howard (pick 56) and Dumont (pick 30) are both nearing their mid-20's and were drafted a year apart, therefore making them comparable. Both have had a similar amount of time to show their wares over and prove their worth over 5 seasons (6 in Dumont's case), with one producing a much higher standard of footy than the other.

We can compare dick size's about player and list potential all we like, but when you start reaching your mid-20's, and after having had a fair crack at showing potential, the whole discussion about potential starts to become redundant, ala Jarrad Waite jokes. You can only cite/rely/trade on the potential of a player for so long before it effectively becomes moot. It'll be like me talking up Mason Wood's potential.

I hope Howard becomes the gun defender you and Port fans are hoping for.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Lol, here comes the dramatic false equivalence.

Sam Grey is a 27 year old garbage truck with multiple seasons behind him, Lukosius is a first year player, we are not comparing them.


Howard (pick 56) and Dumont (pick 30) are both nearing their mid-20's and were drafted a year apart, therefore making them comparable. Both have had a similar amount of time to show their wares over and prove their worth over 5 seasons (6 in Dumont's case), with one producing a much higher standard of footy than the other.

We can compare dick size's about player and list potential all we like, but when you start reaching your mid-20's, and after having had a fair crack at showing potential, the whole discussion about potential starts to become redundant, ala Jarrad Waite jokes. You can only cite/rely/trade on the potential of a player for so long before it effectively becomes moot. It'll be like me talking up Mason Wood's potential.

I hope Howard becomes the gun defender you and Port fans are hoping for.

Howard is 23 m8, he's hardly Jarrad Waite just yet. And he was already playing excellent football as a defender in the first half of this season until our dickhead coach decided on a whim to throw him forward and then left him there for the rest of the year despite the fact that it clearly wasn't working.

 

[Quintero]

With delusional supporters like you, it's hard to have a proper discussion.

Larkey is worth a s**t tonne more than Dumont.

10year + CHF/2nd ruck versus slow, average skilled midfield role player. There isn't a team in the country that pays more for Dumont than Larkey.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Howard is 23 m8, he's hardly Jarrad Waite just yet. And he was already playing excellent football as a defender in the first half of this season until our dickhead coach decided on a whim to throw him forward and then left him there for the rest of the year despite the fact that it clearly wasn't working.

I understand that and I appreciate that you guys value him highly, that KPP’s take longer and I truly hope he becomes a gun. The main point is in regards to valuing a proven and higher, similar aged, commodity at this stage of their similar respective careers. In 12 months time, he could be everything you hoped he would be or he’ll continue to regress, but he’s not at a comparable level this stage and a point will be reached that we can’t talk about potential anymore.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

With delusional supporters like you, it's hard to have a proper discussion.

Larkey is worth a s**t tonne more than Dumont.

10year + CHF/2nd ruck versus slow, average skilled midfield role player. There isn't a team in the country that pays more for Dumont than Larkey.

Lol, proper discussion and delusion, the irony. If we did even half the trades you suggest, we would become the next GC.

Plenty of clubs would and there’s no 100% guarantee that Larkey even becomes that 10 year gun player we hope for. No one overrates youth and potential more than BF posters.

 

[Quintero]

Lol, proper discussion and delusion, the irony. If we did even half the trades you suggest, we would become the next GC.

Plenty of clubs would and there’s no 100% guarantee that Larkey even becomes that 10 year gun player we hope for. No one overrates youth and potential more than BF posters.

I don't know whether you're more dramatic about being invaded or what trading a few average players would do to our list. Probably the latter.

Larkey 26:8 (best conversion in AFL?) 6 assists. 33 one%'s. 2x games of 5 goals in his first real season (17games) of footy in an ordinary side playing 10-15% in the ruck.

That is very good going.

As for the Dumont + 2nd for Howard discussion, we walk out like bandits under that scenario.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

I don't know whether you're more dramatic about being invaded or what trading a few average players would do to our list. Probably the latter.

Larkey 26:8 (best conversion in AFL?) 6 assists. 33 one%'s. 2x games of 5 goals in his first real season (17games) of footy in an ordinary side playing 10-15% in the ruck.

That is very good going.

As for the Dumont + 2nd for Howard discussion, we walk out like bandits under that scenario.

Da hell you talking about, being invaded?

As for the Larkey comments, I did make an error, as he’s considerably younger than Howard and Dumont and has more potential left in him in comparison to the other two. So I’ll alter that particular comment.


Port wouldn’t do that deal anyway, especially when list demographics and other factors outside potential are considered. Dumont is worth more to us as he’s one of the few midfielders on our list that can actually run both ways and has a proven capacity to collect the footy. Port aren’t massively lacking in that regard, so they wouldn’t pay a inflated cost for Dumont, but other clubs would.

A promising enough KPD, rather than a two way b grade mid, is worth more to Port at the present moment, rather than Dumont necessarily being a worthless/average plodder.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

I'd much rather Howard than Dumont and a second rounder.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

I'd much rather Howard than Dumont and a second rounder.

You're not exactly running low on midfielders. KPP stocks on the otherhand.

 

[Schulzenfest]

You're not exactly running low on midfielders. KPP stocks on the otherhand.

That's true of most clubs though, which is sort of the point. Dumont is a perfectly adequate AFL player but in any given draft there are a lot more Trent Dumont types up for grabs than Dougal Howard types.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

That's true of most clubs though, which is sort of the point. Dumont is a perfectly adequate AFL player but in any given draft there are a lot more Trent Dumont types up for grabs than Dougal Howard types.

Even more so at the dogs than any other club.

I do agree that being a youngish KPP does increase value, it's one of the reasons why I changed my position re Larkey and Dumont.

But this is where I would disagree with Howard v Dumont. Two-way running mids, as we both know, are a golden (rare) commodity that aren't always reflected in the stats, except maybe champion data (which has its drawbacks, as it ranks Dumont highly as one of the best wingers in the game, which isn't the actual case).

This is amplified by the new 6-6-6 rule and the renewed value of good wingman, especially ones that show statistical improvement every season. Despite being as slow as Lance Whitnell at full tilt, Dumont has averaged 23.6 disposals as a wingman in a fairly dysfunctional side and in a midfield which doesn't bat too deep and struggles to get the ball to the outside.

I would argue players like him hold as much as value, if not more, as a promising KPP that has been in the system for a while now and hasn't quite followed through on their potential for whatever reason, valid or not. However, I am acutely aware that my opinion is in the minority, but there is understated trade value in those heart and soul two-way runners. It's why I probably value guys like Amon, who has really come on this year, and even Dumont to an extent, a tad higher.

 

[King_Tredrea]

Dumont + 2020 R2 done deal apparently.

Can't wait for this generational athlete to weather the storm that is defending behind our pathetic midfield.

If that happened I would literally kill myself

 

[TalkingFootyNow1223]

I could see the dogs landing him but there would be no way in hell any trade would be facilitated between port and crows.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

I could see the dogs landing him but there would be no way in hell any trade would be facilitated between port and crows.

What would expect as compensation from the dogs in that situation?

 

[Virgin Dog]

What would expect as compensation from the dogs in that situation?

From my end, I would EXPECT minimum Pick 12, if not more. I'd imagine Port would want even more than that

 

[Young Gun #6]

Bloke admits he doesn't watch many Port games, gets stats shown of how comparable Dougal is to the best young defender in the comp (Harris Andrews) and comes back saying Trent Dumont has shown more than him who is 13cm shorter, doesn't even play the same position, doesn't have anywhere near the defender ability and is a year younger.

A 199cm, 23 year old, KPD who compares to Harris Andrews and who has lead the league in spoils, 1%er's and is elite in intercept possessions as a defender along with being an above average 1-on-1 defender is always going to be worth more than a 24 year old medium sized (186cm) rebounding defender.



Also, Dougal Howard isn't maxed out, he turned 23 this year. That's not mid 20's it's the start of his career and his progression as a defender the last 2 years has been very good...as already highlighted.