Recommitted Dougal Howard [OOC 2024]

[Wizkd]

McKay is a free agent as opposed to a contracted player which is why there's a bidding war from clubs that are looking for a KPD.

There's also been no confirmation that Howard is looking to leave St Kilda or that the Saints are shopping him around.
It's all speculation based on Cordy being picked for the final round and finals instead of Howard, who was coming back from injury.

Being contracted doesn't matter too much when there's rumours a player might be available - Barrass for example. The fact that Zaine Cordy kept Howard out of the side says enough.

 

[botts]

Being contracted doesn't matter too much when there's rumours a player might be available - Barrass for example. The fact that Zaine Cordy kept Howard out of the side says enough.

Not really. On form cordy was holding the a lot of key defender in the comp out. Was getting 10 + intercepts a game

 

[Duckimus Prime]

Doogs is the kind of player where you can either focus on what he's good at or have a tanty and obsess about what he's bad at.

At the end of the day, 200cm defenders don't grow on trees.

Technically, he's not a 200cm defender.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Being contracted doesn't matter too much when there's rumours a player might be available - Barrass for example. The fact that Zaine Cordy kept Howard out of the side says enough.

Zaine Cordy would waltz in and play every game for North no questions asked really. Had a good year

Think people dont like the name Zaine so think he isnt very good really. If you watch him play he can defend

 

[FrogDude]

Being contracted doesn't matter too much when there's rumours a player might be available - Barrass for example. The fact that Zaine Cordy kept Howard out of the side says enough.

Barras is one of the best KPDs in the game, of course teams wanted him. Not really the best comparison

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Will be a blessing in disguise for whoever misses out on McKay.

Yes, he costs you a pick, but he'd be on 600k instead of 800k and is a better player.

The thing to note though is that he's not a FB. His best work is as a CHB with another KPD behind him on the last line. Think the best possible version of Sam Frost

8

Sam Frost

Age

30

Ht

194cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.4

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

3.7

4star

T

1.9

4star

MG

191.6

3star

D

10.5

3star

K

6.3

3star

HB

4.3

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.5

2star

MG

191.6

3star

D

11.2

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.4

4star

. Big spoil or mark, go for a run, hoof it 65m back inside F50...

Can't do that from the goal square which is where Ratten and Ross have gone wrong.

Richo had it right with Carlisle in behind him.

Marks are worth 5x spoils.

One sets up rebound goals. One sets up crumbed goals for the oppo.

That's why Dougal isn't valued.

On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[L_W_P]

Marks are worth 5x spoils.

One sets up rebound goals. One sets up crumbed goals for the oppo.

That's why Dougal isn't valued.

On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Not sure that math works for you.

Howard ave 5.5 marks (x5 = 27.5 'points') and 7.2 spoils for a total of 34.7 points.
McKay ave 5.9 marks (x5 = 29.5 'points') and 4.4 spoils for a total of 33.9 points.

Howard had 36 rebound 50s from his 18 games.
McKay had 37 rebound 50s from his 19 games.

Howard had 110 intercepts
McKay had 134 intercepts

Howard had 28 score involvements
McKay had 23 score involvements

Howard had 2692m gained with 89% disposal efficiency
McKay had 2222m gained with 84% disposal efficiency

Howard had 27 turnovers
McKay had 31 turnovers

So even with your logic that marks are worth more because turnovers generate scores, Howard was the better performed player in 2023. He generated more meters and scores for his team from less intercepts and in less games...

McKay isn't a bad player by any stretch, but he's nowhere near the top line KPDs in the comp and to be paying him similar money to guys like Petracca, De Goey, Bont, Greene, & Daniher is very silly.

 

[eth-dog]

I reckon we'll get him if McKay chooses the Hawks

 

[Duckimus Prime]

Howard ave 5.5 marks (x5 = 27.5 'points') and 7.2 spoils for a total of 34.7 points.
McKay ave 5.9 marks (x5 = 29.5 'points') and 4.4 spoils for a total of 33.9 points.

So even with your logic that marks are worth more because turnovers generate scores, Howard was the better performed player in 2023. He generated more meters and scores for his team from less intercepts and in less games...

For this to be a valid analysis, you need to be looking at just intercept marks not marks total.

As uncontested marks when the team is kicking sideways to switch aren't what is being talked about.

 

[L_W_P]

For this to be a valid analysis, you need to be looking at just intercept marks not marks total.

As uncontested marks when the team is kicking sideways to switch aren't what is being talked about.

The post I was replying to only stated that "Marks are worth 5x spoils" which is why I dig a little deeper into the stats.

Did you miss the part where Howard had 28 score involvements and only 110 intercepts compared to McKay's 23 score involvements and 134 intercepts?

If the theory is "intercept possessions = score involvements" then McKay is either far less effective than Howard or completely disproves the theory.

Again, not a crack at McKay or trying to big note Howard, just trying to clear up why so many people just do not rate McKay.

He's not getting paid because he's an elite defender, he's getting paid because he's a FA at a time when multiple clubs are in search of a decent KPD option.

 

[Vindicater]

Would rather him than McKay but meh.

 

[Swanssince91]

Hopefully the Swans look at him

 

[tiger_tough]

Hopefully the Swans look at him

He reeks of a classic solid swans type pickup.

 

[Swanssince91]

He reeks of a classic solid swans type pickup.

A ******* that turns out to be serviceable?

 

[tiger_tough]

A ******* that turns out to be serviceable?

Yes.

 

[Swanssince91]

Yes.

Yeah, I don't know how we hide so many of these spuds

 

[Vindicater]

Yeah, I don't know how we hide so many of these spuds

It's the s**t Sydney air quality I reckon. Helps mask things.

 

[cdcanman]

I don’t think anyone would be surprised if Hawthorn were to make some inquiries given their needs. Though the appeal of McKay was that he wasn’t going to cost them any draft capital. They have the funds to make it happen, just not sure if they would be willing to part with the necessary pick. Also may need to factor in their interest in Chol if those reports are to be believed.
I could see Hawthorn moving their 2nd rd pick if they can complete all their business and still have enough points for their father son McCabe who is being mocked in the teens recently. Would depend on how keen St Kilda are to move his money. Hawthorn may need them to throw in some late picks for points purposes. It’s a pretty narrow window for this one to work out, but it’s not impossible

 

[Darrian Barnett]

I don’t think anyone would be surprised if Hawthorn were to make some inquiries given their needs. Though the appeal of McKay was that he wasn’t going to cost them any draft capital. They have the funds to make it happen, just not sure if they would be willing to part with the necessary pick. Also may need to factor in their interest in Chol if those reports are to be believed.
I could see Hawthorn moving their 2nd rd pick if they can complete all their business and still have enough points for their father son McCabe who is being mocked in the teens recently. Would depend on how keen St Kilda are to move his money. Hawthorn may need them to throw in some late picks for points purposes. It’s a pretty narrow window for this one to work out, but it’s not impossible

He's a contracted key defender, I can't see any world in which the Saints move him for a pick that will end up being close to pick 40.

 

[cdcanman]

He's a contracted key defender, I can't see any world in which the Saints move him for a pick that will end up being close to pick 40.

You might be right, but as I said, depends how keen they are to move his money off the books. If you have an opportunity to move a significant contract attached to a player that you don’t see as being a big part of the future, or that the coach doesn’t seem to value, then that might be something that they look at. They have talked about wanting to hit the draft pretty hard. He’s being paid a lot to play in the VFL

 

[BrutThough]

You might be right, but as I said, depends how keen they are to move his money off the books. If you have an opportunity to move a significant contract attached to a player that you don’t see as being a big part of the future, or that the coach doesn’t seem to value, then that might be something that they look at. They have talked about wanting to hit the draft pretty hard. He’s being paid a lot to play in the VFL

Jumping the gun a bit to suggest he isn't valued or playing VFL. He hasn't played 2nds yet.

Was selected for every game until he broke his arm then wasn't selected for the final, which was his first available game in 6 weeks, since Ross was hesitant to change from Cordy who had been playing well up until then.

Unless it's a deal heavily in Saints favour, there isn't much of a reason to move him on.

 

[botts]

Money is no issue with the saints. We want more early picks and key defenders are the flavour of the month, also contracted so we hold the power. Happy to keep him if we don’t get overs

 

[Darrian Barnett]

You might be right, but as I said, depends how keen they are to move his money off the books. If you have an opportunity to move a significant contract attached to a player that you don’t see as being a big part of the future, or that the coach doesn’t seem to value, then that might be something that they look at. They have talked about wanting to hit the draft pretty hard. He’s being paid a lot to play in the VFL

Well, he's never played in the VFL and we have plenty of cap space, with lots of players coming out of contract this year or next and going onto smaller smaller contracts (Gresh, Clark, Coffield, etc).

 

[The Worpedo]

Hawks interested if he's made available
Let's see what the saints might be asking for

 

[botts]

Hawks interested if he's made available
Let's see what the saints might be asking for

This will be interesting. We want a first but wouldn’t expect hawks early pick. That’s two early. I don’t think you have any second either do you? Used them on weedle