Hawthorn trade period 2016

[yeee_haaaa!!!!!]

Why all the fuss about omeara in the 1st place? The bloke hasn't played a game for 2 years, and has 2 dodgy knees. And we aren't talking knee reco dodgy, we are talking patella tendon dodgy which anyone will tell you is a hell of a lot worse on an ongoing basis than having your acl fixed . Massive questions marks over omeara moving forward - already the whispers are that he won't be ready for senior footy until mid - 2017. Has all the makings of a debacle for Hawks

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Why all the fuss about omeara in the 1st place? The bloke hasn't played a game for 2 years, and has 2 dodgy knees. And we aren't talking knee reco dodgy, we are talking patella tendon dodgy which anyone will tell you is a hell of a lot worse on an ongoing basis than having your acl fixed . Massive questions marks over omeara moving forward - already the whispers are that he won't be ready for senior footy until mid - 2017. Has all the makings of a debacle for Hawks

Actually he did play a number of games in the seconds, then sat out the rest of the year after a clean up to get himself right for 2017.

 

[Moo]

Why all the fuss about omeara in the 1st place? The bloke hasn't played a game for 2 years, and has 2 dodgy knees. And we aren't talking knee reco dodgy, we are talking patella tendon dodgy which anyone will tell you is a hell of a lot worse on an ongoing basis than having your acl fixed . Massive questions marks over omeara moving forward - already the whispers are that he won't be ready for senior footy until mid - 2017. Has all the makings of a debacle for Hawks

Because if he's fit - he has the potential to be one of the best players in the game for a number of years.

That's worth the fuss.

 

[Billyc]

The truth on Bigfooty normally sits in the middle- not the disaster some make it out to be but also not as simple as we got our man x2 so we won.

Hawks are going to feel the loss of picks ... you can't say Mitchell & JOM cover Lewis & Mitchell, whilst simultaneously saying Mitchell & JOM are > than anything we would get with those traded picks.

I agree that it is far from black and white and Hawthorn would have preferred to maintain a presence in the draft. But history suggests the draft is more or less a lottery outside the very earliest picks. I did a bit of an analysis on the Hawks board of the picks we traded away from 2000 to 2015 (2016 too early) and it's hard not to be very comfortable with securing a 23 year old Mitchell and a 22 year old O'Meara instead of speculative draft picks:

Pick 10 (ultimately involved in O'Meara trade. Hawthorn's 2017 first pick unlikely to be lower than 10):
Nakia Cockatoo
Nathan Freeman
Joe Daniher (F/S) / Troy Menzel
Liam Sumner
Daniel Gorringe
Jake Melsham
Phil Davis
Patrick Dangerfield
Marcus Drum
Chris Egan
Ryley Dunn
Jason Laycock
Sam Power
Jordan McMahon

Verdict:
Good AFL footballers = 4/14 (29%)
Better than Mitchell / O'Meara = 1/14 (7%)
Superstars = 1/14 (7%)

Pick 14 (2016 first round pick - traded out for Tom Mitchell)
Jake Lever
Cameron McCarthy
Aiden Corr
Devon Smith
Brodie Smith
Lewis Jetta
Ayce Cordy
Jack Grimes
Nathan Brown (coll)
Grant Birchall
Angus Monfries
Fergus Watts
Daniel Bell
Ashley Watson
Daniel Harris

Verdict:
Good AFL footballers = 7/14 (50%)
Better than Mitchell / O'Meara = 0/14 (0%)
Superstars = 0/14 (0%)

Pick 23 (traded for Hill, ontraded to St Kilda for pick 10)
Pat McKenna
Matt Crouch
Marco Paparone
Murray Newman
Cameron Guthrie
Koby Stevens
David Zaharakis
Tayte Pears
Paul Stewart
Ryan Cook
Sean Rusling
Matthew Moody
Tom Lonergan
Charlie Gardiner
Drew Petrie

Verdict:
Good AFL footballers = 5/14 (36%)
Better than Mitchell / O'Meara = 0/14 (0%)
Superstars = 0/14 (0%)

Pick 36 (traded to St Kilda for pick 10)
Ed Vickers-Willis
Jarred Jansen
Tanner Smith
Rory Taggert
Aaron Young
Joel Houghton
Ashley Smith
Steven Browne
Alwyn Davey
Jake Edwards
Luke McGuane
Chris Johnson
Tim Callan
Sam Mitchell
Jeremy Humm

Verdict:
Good AFL footballer = 1/14 (7%)
Better than Mitchell / O'Meara (1/14) (7%)
Superstars = 1/14 (7%)

Pick 48 (traded to Carlton as part of O'Meara trade)
Matthew Goodyear
N/A – Dylan Main
Dean Kent
Jordan Murdoch
Alex Browne
Jesse Crichton
Nicholas Heyne
Jarrad Boumann
David Mackay
Alan Obst
Nathan Ablett (F/S) – Mark McGough
Heath Shaw (F/S) – Tom Logan
Greg Edgcumb
Simon Cox
Matthew Smith

Verdict:
Good AFL footballer = 2/14 (14%)
Better than Mitchell / O'Meara = 0/14 (0%)
Superstars = 0/14 (0%)


TOTAL
Good AFL footballers = 19/70 (27%)
Better than Mitchell / O'Meara = 2/70 (3%)
Superstars = 2/70 (3%)

 

[Hayes4PM]

Started well with Titchell at 14, kept going well with 23 for Brad Hill but then the wheels fell off a bit.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Started well with Titchell at 14, kept going well with 23 for Brad Hill but then the wheels fell off a bit.

How So?

 

[Hayes4PM]

How So?

Well the St Kilda pick swap was way overs, letting Lewis and Mitchell go so cheap was a bad call IMO

 

[Procrastinator35]

Well the St Kilda pick swap was way overs, letting Lewis and Mitchell go so cheap was a bad call IMO

The 3 picks we gave to Saints (2017 ist, 23 & 36) were offered to G/Coast for O'Meara & rejected.

We then went looking for a club with a 2016 Top 10 pick, in order to secure Jaeger in the ND, once Cochrane's strategy became obvious.

Saints obliged & so became the beneficiaries at Gold Coasts expense, not ours.

Once it became clear to Gold Coast that they'd have to sacrifice 2 Top 10 picks, in order to stop us snaffling O'Meara, they then caved at the last bell, in a pathetic face-saving exercise.

As for Sam & Lewy....We have 2 adequate replacements in Jaeger & Tom for the next decade.

Hawks SMASHED this trade-period & everyone knows it.

 

[Rich01]

Actually he did play a number of games in the seconds, then sat out the rest of the year after a clean up to get himself right for 2017.

Actually played 3 games in the 2nds, 2 of which he was managed playing a half, the third he injured his knee again.

 

[TallyHawk]

The 3 picks we gave to Saints (2017 ist, 23 & 36) were offered to G/Coast for O'Meara & rejected.

We then went looking for a club with a 2016 Top 10 pick, in order to secure Jaeger in the ND, once Cochrane's strategy became obvious.

Saints obliged & so became the beneficiaries at Gold Coasts expense, not ours.

Once it became clear to Gold Coast that they'd have to sacrifice 2 Top 10 picks, in order to stop us snaffling O'Meara, they then caved at the last bell, in a pathetic face-saving exercise.

As for Sam & Lewy....We have 2 adequate replacements in Jaeger & Tom for the next decade.

Hawks SMASHED this trade-period & everyone knows it.

I think there are a few 'neutrals' here who wanted Hawks to cough up a Shiels/Bruest in this deal. I find it hilarious the Saints fans screaming victory from the roof tops. Surely they see the big picture, I mean after what they gave up for Tom Hickey sheesh. You see a list management need and go after it, you don't sit on your hands and hope to secure the best talent available in the draft.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

The same "neutrals" who post umpire conspiracy theories.

I love those neutrals.

 

[TallyHawk]

The same "neutrals" who post umpire conspiracy theories.

I love those neutrals.

Big Footy would be a boring forum without these 'neutrals', I love how they remain objective

 

[Hayes4PM]

I get you guys are supporting your club and focusing on the positives but considering several other clubs complained about the advantage of this deal for us I think there is fair grounds to say you over payed. Maybe Jaeger comes good, his knee gets better and he can perform to a similar level as he was a few years ago and you have 2 very good mids come straight in. But that is a huge gamble and giving up two 2nd round picks and your 1st round pick next year for pick 10 is very risky.

 

[TallyHawk]

I get you guys are supporting your club and focusing on the positives but considering several other clubs complained about the advantage of this deal for us I think there is fair grounds to say you over payed. Maybe Jaeger comes good, his knee gets better and he can perform to a similar level as he was a few years ago and you have 2 very good mids come straight in. But that is a huge gamble and giving up two 2nd round picks and your 1st round pick next year for pick 10 is very risky.

Sometimes you have to pay overs, we did it with McEvoy too but you can't die wondering. Jaeger and Tom are too good to pass up and I can't wait to see them partner with Shiels, Burton, O'Rourke, Lovell and Riolli in a new look midfield.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I get you guys are supporting your club and focusing on the positives but considering several other clubs complained about the advantage of this deal for us I think there is fair grounds to say you over payed. Maybe Jaeger comes good, his knee gets better and he can perform to a similar level as he was a few years ago and you have 2 very good mids come straight in. But that is a huge gamble and giving up two 2nd round picks and your 1st round pick next year for pick 10 is very risky.

3 speculative picks who may or may not make it.

There's no guarantees any draft pick becomes even half a player.

We traded picks that may or may not become players, for a player who we've done a lot of homework on, and who has the ability to be a top 5 player in the comp, so you pay whatever you need to get them into your club.

Every draft pick is a gamble, and trading for known quantities makes more sense than just collecting darts to throw at the board.

 

[Procrastinator35]

I get you guys are supporting your club and focusing on the positives but considering several other clubs complained about the advantage of this deal for us I think there is fair grounds to say you over payed. Maybe Jaeger comes good, his knee gets better and he can perform to a similar level as he was a few years ago and you have 2 very good mids come straight in. But that is a huge gamble and giving up two 2nd round picks and your 1st round pick next year for pick 10 is very risky.

Certain clubs complained about it, much as they did the Vickery acquisition, as they knew full-well what advantage we were seeking to gain by it....Namely: Get O'Meara via the National Draft.

Picks (2017 ist rd) & 23 & 36 were more than ample & even generous for O'Meara....We are a fair & generous club to deal with trade-wise. As all of Melbourne, West-Coast, Richmond & St.Kilda discovered this year....Saints also prospered via the McEvoy deal in 2013 & we got 2 Premierships out of it.

The media spin is that the Hawks got roasted....Fair play to them....But the real roast occurred to a big-mouthed chairman, who felt the need to play this one out in the media to seem the big man.

But guess what: Gold Coast got picks 10 & a 2017 2nd (likely 40) for O'Meara, in spite of their insistence for a top 10 pick & player.

It's time you all woke up & smelt the BS....Gold Coast folded like a house of cards & the Hawks smashed Cochrane out of the park, with a chess-move Bobby Fisher would have been proud of.

 

[Moo]

Well the St Kilda pick swap was way overs, letting Lewis and Mitchell go so cheap was a bad call IMO

Realistically though what are you going to get for Mitchell?

It was Lewis after Mitchell that gets the confusion mark down from my perspective.

Hill wanted out - you effectively just manage that s**t.

The St Kilda swap was the other part of the swap that was non-sensical, might as well just held the line unless GC had specifically said 10 will get it done.

Anyway regardless- anything less than a B- is ridiculous seeming on talent they haven't dipped (or worse case slightly), longevity is in their favour.

Might as well just say JOM plays 15+ games and it's a win.

 

[Moo]

Certain clubs complained about it, much as they did the Vickery acquisition, as they knew full-well what advantage we were seeking to gain by it....Namely: Get O'Meara via the National Draft.

Picks (2017 ist rd) & 23 & 36 were more than ample & even generous for O'Meara....We are a fair & generous club to deal with trade-wise. As all of Melbourne, West-Coast, Richmond & St.Kilda discovered this year....Saints also prospered via the McEvoy deal in 2013 & we got 2 Premierships out of it.

The media spin is that the Hawks got roasted....Fair play to them....But the real roast occurred to a big-mouthed chairman, who felt the need to play this one out in the media to seem the big man.

But guess what: Gold Coast got picks 10 & a 2017 2nd (likely 40) for O'Meara, in spite of their insistence for a top 10 pick & player.

It's time you all woke up & smelt the BS....Gold Coast folded like a house of cards & the Hawks smashed Cochrane out of the park, with a chess-move Bobby Fisher would have been proud of.

Gold Coast sent a message- the fact we're still crapping on about it is in their favour.

 

[bradburygold]

I agree that it is far from black and white and Hawthorn would have preferred to maintain a presence in the draft. But history suggests the draft is more or less a lottery outside the very earliest picks. I did a bit of an analysis on the Hawks board of the picks we traded away from 2000 to 2015 (2016 too early) and it's hard not to be very comfortable with securing a 23 year old Mitchell and a 22 year old O'Meara instead of speculative draft picks:

Pick 10 (ultimately involved in O'Meara trade. Hawthorn's 2017 first pick unlikely to be lower than 10):
Nakia Cockatoo
Nathan Freeman
Joe Daniher (F/S) / Troy Menzel
Liam Sumner
Daniel Gorringe
Jake Melsham
Phil Davis
Patrick Dangerfield
Marcus Drum
Chris Egan
Ryley Dunn
Jason Laycock
Sam Power
Jordan McMahon

Verdict:
Good AFL footballers = 4/14 (29%)
Better than Mitchell / O'Meara = 1/14 (7%)
Superstars = 1/14 (7%)

Pick 14 (2016 first round pick - traded out for Tom Mitchell)
Jake Lever
Cameron McCarthy
Aiden Corr
Devon Smith
Brodie Smith
Lewis Jetta
Ayce Cordy
Jack Grimes
Nathan Brown (coll)
Grant Birchall
Angus Monfries
Fergus Watts
Daniel Bell
Ashley Watson
Daniel Harris

Verdict:
Good AFL footballers = 7/14 (50%)
Better than Mitchell / O'Meara = 0/14 (0%)
Superstars = 0/14 (0%)

Pick 23 (traded for Hill, ontraded to St Kilda for pick 10)
Pat McKenna
Matt Crouch
Marco Paparone
Murray Newman
Cameron Guthrie
Koby Stevens
David Zaharakis
Tayte Pears
Paul Stewart
Ryan Cook
Sean Rusling
Matthew Moody
Tom Lonergan
Charlie Gardiner
Drew Petrie

Verdict:
Good AFL footballers = 5/14 (36%)
Better than Mitchell / O'Meara = 0/14 (0%)
Superstars = 0/14 (0%)

Pick 36 (traded to St Kilda for pick 10)
Ed Vickers-Willis
Jarred Jansen
Tanner Smith
Rory Taggert
Aaron Young
Joel Houghton
Ashley Smith
Steven Browne
Alwyn Davey
Jake Edwards
Luke McGuane
Chris Johnson
Tim Callan
Sam Mitchell
Jeremy Humm

Verdict:
Good AFL footballer = 1/14 (7%)
Better than Mitchell / O'Meara (1/14) (7%)
Superstars = 1/14 (7%)

Pick 48 (traded to Carlton as part of O'Meara trade)
Matthew Goodyear
N/A – Dylan Main
Dean Kent
Jordan Murdoch
Alex Browne
Jesse Crichton
Nicholas Heyne
Jarrad Boumann
David Mackay
Alan Obst
Nathan Ablett (F/S) – Mark McGough
Heath Shaw (F/S) – Tom Logan
Greg Edgcumb
Simon Cox
Matthew Smith

Verdict:
Good AFL footballer = 2/14 (14%)
Better than Mitchell / O'Meara = 0/14 (0%)
Superstars = 0/14 (0%)


TOTAL
Good AFL footballers = 19/70 (27%)
Better than Mitchell / O'Meara = 2/70 (3%)
Superstars = 2/70 (3%)

Amazing work mate, but those kind of facts have no place on bigfooty. Most mid table club supporters think every mid round pick is going to be a future premiership player, when the reality is the draft is a lottery as youve shown.

You cant critisize a gamble without seeing his medical and without seeing how he plays next year.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Gold Coast sent a message- the fact we're still crapping on about it is in their favour.

LOL....That despite all their huff & puff, they'll fold like a deck of cards....Some message.

Their chairman is a joke & a big reason for why they currently find themselves in the mess their in.

They could have had pick 23 also....Blokes a Moron.

 

[HairyO]

Well the St Kilda pick swap was way overs, letting Lewis and Mitchell go so cheap was a bad call IMO

We paid overs to ensure we got our target. Great deal for Saints but that doesnt mean it wasnt a great deal for us.

We filled up on Draft picks in 2015 so can afford to pay overs to go for developed players.

The only loser is GCS who accepted a final offer which was far less than our original offer.

Cochrane and his meddling cost them big time.

 

[vozzon]

Hawks did brilliant this trade period, O'meara becomes half the player he was it's still worth it. Getting 2 proven commodities of that quality is worth 2 first round and 2 second round picks every day of the week. Add in Vickery as a free agent and i think all Hawks supporters would be proud of there list management.

With the free agents coming up in the next few years they wont have any trouble signing a few more guns.

 

[bradburygold]

Still cant believe we have JOM

 

[Procrastinator35]

Still cant believe we have JOM

Feels good baby.

As that crusty old Muppet, E.J Whitten use to say: "We stuck it right up em."

And: "Winners are grinners, losers (Cochrane & Dodoro) can please em selves."

 

[Hawkboy62]

Well the St Kilda pick swap was way overs, letting Lewis and Mitchell go so cheap was a bad call IMO

Agree with that.

Felt we got screwed over by Dees, and Lewis was only interested in #1, not assisting the Hawks get fair value.

Sammy was the interesting one. Had a trigger clause for a second year, so the benefit of the trade was the salary cap saving in the second year. Still surprised we couldn't have squeezed more for him. Good player in good form.

When all the veterans were re-signed we were on top of the ladder and had some hope of competing for the flag. After that we crawled to the line and it became obvious that we couldn't compete with GWS or Bulldogs with our list/ game plan. If our aging warriors had performed well during the finals, there was cause to believe we would be contenders in 2017 if we acquired JOM & TMitch. Reality set in and we have to rebuild by playing our youngsters. Sammy & Jordon were offered an opportunity to lengthen their careers. Jordon wasn't re-signed, but in the 4th year of a 4 year contract; in his exit interview he was told he was not part of the teams plans after 2017.