If the VFL/AFL greatest team of all time, was selected today, who is in, and who is out of the team of the century

[PhatBoy]

I don’t think Stevie J is close to Dusty tbh. I’m talking about the HFF, where it’s used by players who are not key forwards (i.e Mids that drift forward).

That’s why I didn’t put Buddy there as he’s more of a KPF and I wanted team balance. GAJ played his best as an inside mid. Most people put him there. My selection doesn’t look so silly now does it?

Do your reference my fwd line is:

HF: Dusty, Carey, Snr
FF: Lethal, Lockett, Bunton

Dusty and Snr are 187 and 185, so they fit the mould of a HFF. Carey is already the tall there.

20 touches a game and 1.8 goals across his career.

Not sure what your grounds are for pretending Johnson didn’t play in the middle as well as up forward. It’s only 4 touches a game less than Martin. From 2011 he played AS A MIDFIELDER and in one of those seasons averaged over 28 touches a game.

He had 5 seasons where he averaged a minimum of 18.5 disposals AND 2+ goals a game AND at least one goal assist.

I seriously don’t think people appreciate how good the guy was

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Nah man don’t worry about it. I don’t really care.

Yeah you do.

You people are desperate for validation that Dustin Martin is the greatest player of all time.

He isn’t.

At best, and I mean if we are being as generous as humanly possible, he is the 3rd best player of the last 15 years. And he’s an awfully long way behind the other two.

 

[Fadge]

At best, and I mean if we are being as generous as humanly possible, he is the 3rd best player of the last 15 years. And he’s an awfully long way behind the other two.

Nah.

Miles behind Judd who is #3.

Then rankings between 4 and 10 come down to personal preference.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Nah.

Miles behind Judd who is #3.

Then rankings between 4 and 10 come down to personal preference.

Yeah, can agree with that.

Like I said, you’d have to be the most generous of pundits to have Martin even at 3.

 

[PhatBoy]

You're really comparing Matthews and Ablett Snr on character grounds? Faaaaaaaaark me

This is the very bad character trying to turn his life around in me speaking, not the Geelong fan.

In life it’s not something everyone goes through but a very high percentage of people go off the rails of where their life was ‘supposed’ to go.

Alcohol, drugs, gambling, affairs, violence, financial ruin, estrangement from family, whatever. When you combine that with a life spent in public it probably doubles the impact of anything that’s going wrong in your personal life and people make choices on how to deal with that.

Going on a bender when you’re in the middle of a personal breakdown of some description, which obviously any regular or dependent hard drug user must be experiencing, isn’t a sign that someone is evil, that someone is a predator, that someone is bad. Weak, maybe, but not bad. It’s someone who can’t cope, can’t take care of themselves or others, can’t make wise decisions.

Nothing will ever change the tragedy of what happened to that poor girl who was with Ablett that night she passed away. Nothing will make his decision to even be spending time with her anything more than utterly awful but that’s what drug addicts do. That’s why Ben Cousins was telling the mother of his children he was going to bury her alive and bring her children so she could hear them. On a different level that’s why David Schwarz was winning $700,000 in a day at one race meeting and destitute the next. It’s what addicts and people who’s lives are breaking down do.

That’s been me. Not as a drug user but a drinker, a cheat, and a gambler. I have good in me. I am not evil. I’m human and I’ve made mistakes and I’m learning from them.

Even murderers are not beyond redemption: sure their lives are never going to be enough to undo what they’ve done to someone’s family but what about the killer in jail who learns his lesson and takes a kid under his wing who’s doing 6-10 for armed robbery, and turns that kid’s life around so that when he gets out he saves lives.

I wish I could say I had the answer for sexual predators like Barry Cable because logically speaking any argument should be able to hold up across all parameters but with sex offenders it doesn’t, I can’t see anything redeemable especially paedophiles and ones who do it repeatedly.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

No he isn’t that’s why he’s the HF not in the mid . Fine me a better HF (not CHF like Carey) since the TOC cause I don’t know any.

Easily Steve Johnson was a better HF. Toby Greene, Brad Johnson, Paul Chapman, Alan Didak off top of my mind as those forward pocket/HFF types.

Sorry mate but stop this ridiculous trolling. Martin has no place in a greatest of all time side.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

20 touches a game and 1.8 goals across his career.

Not sure what your grounds are for pretending Johnson didn’t play in the middle as well as up forward. It’s only 4 touches a game less than Martin. From 2011 he played AS A MIDFIELDER and in one of those seasons averaged over 28 touches a game.

He had 5 seasons where he averaged a minimum of 18.5 disposals AND 2+ goals a game AND at least one goal assist.

I seriously don’t think people appreciate how good the guy was

You can honestly make every argument he is as good as Dustin Martin was.

 

[Cursed Cat]

Just here to stan Bernie Smith (pictured: avatar, reinacting his own delight at winning the 1951 Brownlow), who always seems to be the first unceremoniously axed from these teams without much consideration given to his impact.

Part of the problem of course is that there aren't a lot of people left around to recall his on-field feats.
His CV is impressive enough, but he played at a time when there were less accolades afforded; i.e. fewer opportunities to accrue AA selections or win a Norm Smith.

There is a little footage of Bernie Smith in action; the best look I've had at his game is the 1951 GF footage. The quality isn't the best, and it is often difficult to make out individuals.
One bloke however looks like he is playing modern AFL-style football and stands out like dogs balls. Bernie Smith. Genuine class above in that GF footage.

Won the 1951 Brownlow, to my eyes looked to be best-on in the winning GF side, won his club B+F that year too. From the back pocket.

He was the best player in a team that went back-to-back and at one point won 23 games in a row (still a record I think).

 

[Cursed Cat]

There's a few absolute givens in any exercise like this; if you are missing the following players you are deadset wrong.

I'll skip any Geelong players.

Bruce Doull - Should nearly be the first player selected. Had a long, consistent peak of the highest quality. Carlton built their entire defense around him and he duly delivered 4 Carlton Premierships.

Peter Daicos - An innovator and the closest thing you'll get to a genuine Aussie Rules genius. Reinvented himself after he did his knee; early Daicos was more of a goalkicking midfield maestro. The later, forward-bound Daicos invented all types of ways to kick goals.

Peter Matera

Peter Matera

Age

55

Ht

183cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.8

5star

K

14.0

5star

HB

4.9

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.4

4star

G

0.9

4star

No current season stats available

D

12.2

3star

K

9.0

4star

HB

3.2

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

0.6

3star

G

0.6

3star

- there were great, great wingmen before Peter Matera

Peter Matera

Age

55

Ht

183cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.8

5star

K

14.0

5star

HB

4.9

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.4

4star

G

0.9

4star

No current season stats available

D

12.2

3star

K

9.0

4star

HB

3.2

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

0.6

3star

G

0.6

3star

came along. And yet he still somehow became synonymous with the position. You can argue who gets the ''other'' wing, but the man who buried Geelong in the 1992 GF gets a guernsey, no question.


The Full Forward debate is the big one.

Lockett or Dunstall? There's still a lot of us around who saw their entire careers; they were Titans.
John Coleman though will have his advocates. There'd be a few diehard Peter Hudson fanatics who could roll out some impressive statistics, too.
Imo you can't really be ''wrong'' with picking any one of Lockett, Dunstall or Coleman. Picking two is getting cheeky though.

 

[STRONGandBALD]

Yeah judging someone's body of work and actual output doesn't work like this.

SJ was permanent midfielder in 2013 and had pretty crazy numbers. But I can't just say he'd have had a better career as a midfielder than Voss.

You guys do it with GAS playing on the wing for his goal tally though. Cmon

 

[Cursed Cat]

Most modern quality key defenders know when to zone off their opponents for maximal impact and to affect as many contests as possible. This definitely included Rance but also applied to Scarlett (especially the latter years), Fletcher (likewise), McGovern, etc.

Of the current crop, it applies to most to be honest but especially the likes of Sicily, Stewart, Lever, etc.

Having Astbury (and Grimes/Vlastuin) certainly assissted Rance and allowed him greater freedoms but he was still a quality full back (defensively and offensively) who was AA 5 straight years and deserves to be in the conversation.

In my (3rd) team, I have selected him alongside Southby, who was an old fashioned pure stopping full back which I think suits selecting Rance to allow him to play the role he did at his best at the Tigers.

In my view, there are about 8 guys in the conversation for best full back ever.

Those are Silvagni, Scarlett, Reagen, Southby, Moore, Dench, Langford and Rance.

Some pundits might include Lake, Fletcher and/or Glass.

Of that first list, the first 4 had already been selected (Silvagni in the original, Scarlett and Reagen in my alternate and Southby (and Rance) in the team you quoted). I left out Langford and Moore because I have tried to overcompensate for any club bias I might have (especially after selecting Knights over Jakovich at CHB). I just as easily could have selected Dench instead of Rance (but went for variety with Southby alongside).

Anyway, who would you select instead?

P.S. I too am not a fan of dives - but we are talking about 2-3 moments over 200 games. It doesn't make him less of a quality player (less likeable maybe). Clayton Oliver, for example, has flopped a few times in his career but over the last 3 or so years, I would rate him one of (if no the) best player in the comp. If I was selecting a team of the 2020's today, he would be one of the first selected, despite a couple of flops so far.

Good take on the full back candidates. I'll refrain from riffing on Matty Scarlett. He was a freak though.
Agree that Lake/Fletcher/Glass should all have their advocates too; great players.

Jack Regan is at a disadvantage as there's probably noone living who saw him in action, and no footage that I am aware of. The Prince of Full Backs surviving reputation is a fragile thing.

David Dench is the one that I think is a bit overlooked. An absolute gun and arguably the key plank in North Melbourne's breakthrough Premiership era.

 

[Mr Meow]

You guys do it with GAS playing on the wing for his goal tally though. Cmon

Honestly there's no need. But he was a half forward, not a full forward or a midfielder, for most of his career. He just showed how insane his numbers could be, even as an old man, if played out of the square.

Which is the freakish talent and output you need to make a side like this. Martin, Johnson, Chapman great players but not in the same stratosphere.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

VFL/AFL Team of the Century

B:	Bernie Smith (Geelong, West Adelaide)	Stephen Silvagni (Carlton)	John Nicholls (Carlton)
HB:	Bruce Doull (Carlton)	Ted Whitten (Footscray) Captain	Kevin Murray (Fitzroy, East Perth)
C:	Garry Ablett Jnr(Richmond)	Ian Stewart (Hobart, St Kilda, Richmond)	Peter Matera (North Melbourne)
HF:	Steve Johnson (Carlton, St Kilda)	Wayne Carey (Richmond)	Dick Reynolds (Essendon)
F:	Leigh Matthews (Hawthorn)	John Coleman (Essendon)	Haydn Bunton Sr. (Fitzroy, Subiaco, Port Adelaide)
Foll:	Graham Farmer (Geelong, East Perth, West Perth)	Ron Barassi (Melbourne, Carlton)	Bob Skilton (South Melbourne)
Int:	Gary Ablett Sr. (Hawthorn, Geelong)	Chris Judd (Richmond)	Greg Williams (Geelong, Sydney, Carlton)
Coach:	Norm Smith (Melbourne, Fitzroy, South Melbourne)

This was the team selected in 1996

What changes would you make to this team, to include players in and up to 2023?

For me, the only change is Jesaulenko is out, Dustin Martin is in

3 norm smiths, 1 brownlow, 3 Gary Ayres Medals, AFLCA, AFLPA, 4 AA jumpers, arguably the goat

The other ones to be considered are Buddy, and GAJ

That's it from the modern era

First attempt at one.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

There's a few absolute givens in any exercise like this; if you are missing the following players you are deadset wrong.

I'll skip any Geelong players.

Bruce Doull - Should nearly be the first player selected. Had a long, consistent peak of the highest quality. Carlton built their entire defense around him and he duly delivered 4 Carlton Premierships.

Peter Daicos - An innovator and the closest thing you'll get to a genuine Aussie Rules genius. Reinvented himself after he did his knee; early Daicos was more of a goalkicking midfield maestro. The later, forward-bound Daicos invented all types of ways to kick goals.

Peter Matera - there were great, great wingmen before Peter Matera came along. And yet he still somehow became synonymous with the position. You can argue who gets the ''other'' wing, but the man who buried Geelong in the 1992 GF gets a guernsey, no question.


The Full Forward debate is the big one.

Lockett or Dunstall? There's still a lot of us around who saw their entire careers; they were Titans.
John Coleman though will have his advocates. There'd be a few diehard Peter Hudson fanatics who could roll out some impressive statistics, too.
Imo you can't really be ''wrong'' with picking any one of Lockett, Dunstall or Coleman. Picking two is getting cheeky though.

Interesting take on the 'non-negotiables', especially Daicos given he had played his whole career when it was last selected and he didn't make it. If I were to pick 3 players as 'non-negotiables', funnily enough I would pick 3 completely different players.

My 3 would be:

Wayne Carey - debated by many as to whether he is the greatest player of all time, he is the clear choice for CHF. Whilst FF has a number of genuine options, Carey really is head and shoulders clear of the alternatives available, including the incumbent Royce Hart. A dominant captain of a multi flag side who's gameplan was built entirely around him, he won 2 MVP's, 7 AA's and kicked roughly twice as many goals as the current CHF in the TOTC.

Leigh Matthews - the other most commonly chosen player as 'greatest ever'. He was the game's best rover, won 8 B&F's in a star studded, 4 flag side, had the MVP rightfully named after him but also won a Coleman and kicked 915 goals, far and away the most of any non key forward. Given this last part, he can be selected anywhere as not only was he (arguably) the game greatest rover but also the game's greatest ever small forward.

Gary Ablett Snr - A bit like Matthews, he was a freak, in the argument for greatest ever player and is selectable in multiple positions given he played wing, half forward and full forward and did it all to a ridiculous, never seen before level.

I like your rationale (and agree with plenty of it) for your 3 but I wouldn't describe them as 'non negotiable' or "wrong if you don't pick them" like the above 3.

With Daicos, for example, he was not selected the first time and I think Gary Ablett Snr could definately occupy his position in the side. There are 2 pockets and 2 half forward flanks where Daicos is selectable though. I think Gary Snr and Leigh Matthews automatically take 2 of those. Any of the great full forwards (Coventry, Hudson, Lockett, etc) could take another spot, leaving one HFF remaining for everyone else ever. Franklin would probably make it too tall but has bigger claims than Daicos IMO. Kevin Bartlett could be another - he kicked 229 more goals than Daicos, won 5 B&F's to 2, 1 Norm Smith to 0 and was a key man in 5 flags to 1. Dusty Martin and James Hird are other options whose resume surpasses that of Daicos and that's not counting all of the resting 'greatest of all time' mids that are selectable there, including the need to omit Hayden Bunton (3 straight Brownlows) who currently occupies the forward pocket.
Don't get me wrong, Daicos is in the conversation and was amazing, but the "all time" team is very hard to get into and not many positions are "non-negotiable". I mean, no one has advocated that Bill Hutchison should be in there at all but he was a rover/half forward like Daicos and he won back to back Brownlows, 7 B&F's, was the best player in a 4 flag side, captained the club for 7 years, was selected 8 times in the "team of the year" (equivalent of modern AA) and kicked 490 goals as a predominant rover in a low scoring era. In other words, the bar for this team is set extraordinarily high.

For Doull, I'd probably pick him myself but don't think he is non-negotiable either. Kevin Murray is the incumbent on the other flank and is in before Doull. Murray was a Brownlow medallist, state captain, 9 x B&F winner, etc, etc. Viable alternatives to Doull in my view includes Luke Hodge (4 flags each, but Hodge captained a threepeat, 2 Norm Smiths to 1, 3 B&F's to Doull's 4). Andrew McLeod is another viable option with a similar record to Hodge (2 Norm Smiths, 3 B&F's, etc.). Shame the other awards didn't exist in Doull's era. I also think it's an option to select one of the best mids of all time on a half back flank, particularly if they spent time there. For this, the choices are endless.

I think I'd also pick Matera but it's not clear cut, especially now that a "true wing" position hasn't 'fully' existed for many teams in the last 30 years, bar the odd exceptions (rather you have gun mids who are more 'outside', providing more choice for selection in the team of the century). To pick Matera, you also have to drop Greig and/or Bourke, overlook Flower (and Schimma) and bypass all the modern gun mids who spend plenty of time on the outside (I put Cousins there in one of my teams for example).

After all that, I said Id probably pick Doull and Matera myself (probably not Daicos), just don't agree with "the team is wrong" if they're not selected. I think that is reserved for very, very few, such as the 3 I suggested above.

 

[Fadge]

Interesting take on the 'non-negotiables', especially Daicos given he had played his whole career when it was last selected and he didn't make it. If I were to pick 3 players as 'non-negotiables', funnily enough I would pick 3 completely different players.

My 3 would be:

Wayne Carey - debated by many as to whether he is the greatest player of all time, he is the clear choice for CHF. Whilst FF has a number of genuine options, Carey really is head and shoulders clear of the alternatives available, including the incumbent Royce Hart. A dominant captain of a multi flag side who's gameplan was built entirely around him, he won 2 MVP's, 7 AA's and kicked roughly twice as many goals as the current CHF in the TOTC.

Leigh Matthews - the other most commonly chosen player as 'greatest ever'. He was the game's best rover, won 8 B&F's in a star studded, 4 flag side, had the MVP rightfully named after him but also won a Coleman and kicked 915 goals, far and away the most of any non key forward. Given this last part, he can be selected anywhere as not only was he (arguably) the game greatest rover but also the game's greatest ever small forward.

Gary Ablett Snr - A bit like Matthews, he was a freak, in the argument for greatest ever player and is selectable in multiple positions given he played wing, half forward and full forward and did it all to a ridiculous, never seen before level.

I like your rationale (and agree with plenty of it) for your 3 but I wouldn't describe them as 'non negotiable' or "wrong if you don't pick them" like the above 3.

With Daicos, for example, he was not selected the first time and I think Gary Ablett Snr could definately occupy his position in the side. There are 2 pockets and 2 half forward flanks where Daicos is selectable though. I think Gary Snr and Leigh Matthews automatically take 2 of those. Any of the great full forwards (Coventry, Hudson, Lockett, etc) could take another spot, leaving one HFF remaining for everyone else ever. Franklin would probably make it too tall but has bigger claims than Daicos IMO. Kevin Bartlett could be another - he kicked 229 more goals than Daicos, won 5 B&F's to 2, 1 Norm Smith to 0 and was a key man in 5 flags to 1. Dusty Martin and James Hird are other options whose resume surpasses that of Daicos and that's not counting all of the resting 'greatest of all time' mids that are selectable there, including the need to omit Hayden Bunton (3 straight Brownlows) who currently occupies the forward pocket.
Don't get me wrong, Daicos is in the conversation and was amazing, but the "all time" team is very hard to get into and not many positions are "non-negotiable". I mean, no one has advocated that Bill Hutchison should be in there at all but he was a rover/half forward like Daicos and he won back to back Brownlows, 7 B&F's, was the best player in a 4 flag side, captained the club for 7 years, was selected 8 times in the "team of the year" (equivalent of modern AA) and kicked 490 goals as a predominant rover in a low scoring era. In other words, the bar for this team is set extraordinarily high.

For Doull, I'd probably pick him myself but don't think he is non-negotiable either. Kevin Murray is the incumbent on the other flank and is in before Doull. Murray was a Brownlow medallist, state captain, 9 x B&F winner, etc, etc. Viable alternatives to Doull in my view includes Luke Hodge (4 flags each, but Hodge captained a threepeat, 2 Norm Smiths to 1, 3 B&F's to Doull's 4). Andrew McLeod is another viable option with a similar record to Hodge (2 Norm Smiths, 3 B&F's, etc.). Shame the other awards didn't exist in Doull's era. I also think it's an option to select one of the best mids of all time on a half back flank, particularly if they spent time there. For this, the choices are endless.

I think I'd also pick Matera but it's not clear cut, especially now that a "true wing" position hasn't 'fully' existed for many teams in the last 30 years, bar the odd exceptions (rather you have gun mids who are more 'outside', providing more choice for selection in the team of the century). To pick Matera, you also have to drop Greig and/or Bourke, overlook Flower (and Schimma) and bypass all the modern gun mids who spend plenty of time on the outside (I put Cousins there in one of my teams for example).

After all that, I said Id probably pick Doull and Matera myself (probably not Daicos), just don't agree with "the team is wrong" if they're not selected. I think that is reserved for very, very few, such as the 3 I suggested above.

Great post and can't disagree with much of it expect for your mentioning Hird, Martin, Mcleod and Hodge - none of these guys are anywhere near this team.

Bull Hutchison must have been very close when the team was first announced.

 

[Toppa]

GAJ and Dusty would be in. Buddy just misses out due to the strength of key forwards.

Carey and Lockett are the two who were mid career that would be considered. Carey more likely than plugger though.

Dusty doesnt make this team. He isnt in the best mids of all time so misses there and if you think frankin is missing becsuse of the strength of the forwards then where is martin playing exactly

Lockett is as close to a lock as you can get.
Most goals of all time, shares most colemans of all time(unless mistaken) and widely considered top 10 player all time

 

[blaisee]

Yeah you do.

You people are desperate for validation that Dustin Martin is the greatest player of all time.

He isn’t.

At best, and I mean if we are being as generous as humanly possible, he is the 3rd best player of the last 15 years. And he’s an awfully long way behind the other two.

You seem quite assured in your opinion and that’s great

There is no way to know how many goals dusty would have kicked as a permanent forward.

We will never know because dusty unlike Johnson was too good as a midfielder not to be played there

So these super Confident takes of yours are largely irrelevant .

Just like in every aa team mids end up on hff flanks because put simply they are better footballers than pure forwards .

That’s what makes dusty the goat , his statistical output on both he roles he is elite at both , and comparing him to Johnson as a forward is desperation from you to argue a point that is complete irrelevancy

But Knock yourself out , you seem really passionate about it .

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Just here to stan Bernie Smith (pictured: avatar, reinacting his own delight at winning the 1951 Brownlow), who always seems to be the first unceremoniously axed from these teams without much consideration given to his impact.

Part of the problem of course is that there aren't a lot of people left around to recall his on-field feats.
His CV is impressive enough, but he played at a time when there were less accolades afforded; i.e. fewer opportunities to accrue AA selections or win a Norm Smith.

There is a little footage of Bernie Smith in action; the best look I've had at his game is the 1951 GF footage. The quality isn't the best, and it is often difficult to make out individuals.
One bloke however looks like he is playing modern AFL-style football and stands out like dogs balls. Bernie Smith. Genuine class above in that GF footage.

Won the 1951 Brownlow, to my eyes looked to be best-on in the winning GF side, won his club B+F that year too. From the back pocket.

He was the best player in a team that went back-to-back and at one point won 23 games in a row (still a record I think).

Did he win a brownlow from the back pocket??? Bloody hell

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Great post and can't disagree with much of it expect for your mentioning Hird, Martin, Mcleod and Hodge - none of these guys are anywhere near this team.

Bull Hutchison must have been very close when the team was first announced.

Fair enough - who do you think would be in contention for a spot on the half back flank if not those two?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

You guys do it with GAS playing on the wing for his goal tally though. Cmon

Because gaz snr played several years at FF as an old man and kicked centuries. Martin has kicked a couple of bags of 3’s and 4’s and has had plenty of games the last year or so he struggles to do anything as a forward

You seriously can’t be as stupid as you are pretending with your logic and reasoning if you can’t work out the difference??

 

[STRONGandBALD]

Because gaz snr played several years at FF as an old man and kicked centuries. Martin has kicked a couple of bags of 3’s and 4’s and has had plenty of games the last year or so he struggles to do anything as a forward

You seriously can’t be as stupid as you are pretending with your logic and reasoning if you can’t work out the difference??

Half his career was not a fwd/mid. And he’s kicked bags of 6 mate playing 50% forward. At least get your facts right.

 

[Cyclops]

Much as I love Daics I think GAS and Franklin have him covered as the flankers. Buddy isn't a KPF in my view, just a brilliant medium forward who happens to be 6'4".

Dusty is a reasonable suggestion, not one I agree with but not laughable. If the topic was "big game players" he's up there with Brereton, McLeod and Billy Picken, and has a claim to first place in that company.

Theres "unpopular" guys who are stars but get neglected because t hey are unlikable people.

Akermanis was almost Platten tier as a rover. Dunstall was truly great in good and bad sides. Neither goes in ahead of their more beloved peers.

Gonna chuck in my pet whinge. From 1927-1936 Pies had 6 flags in 10 years, in a period described as a golden era, with all time great teams (Richmond, South, Geelong) and stars such as Dick Reynolds, Smallhorn, Bunton Snr, Nash, Pratt. Somehow they won all these games and flags without a notable player or coach against many of the finest players and teams seen.

There were guys before WW 1 too, Essendobs Thurgood was champion of the Colony umpteen times, Collingwoods Dick Condon invented the stab pass and Dick Lee led the league goal kicking 7 mfing times. OK he not into the 20s.

I think the TotC selection process was a politicized joke, and its visible in the positions. Yes Farmer, Bunton, etc but Silvagni and Williams? Laughable errors. Ablett played wing and FF, the flank is a compromise so Richmond could get Bourke. Reynolds was a rover who rest in the pocket, but Skilton had to be picked because the committee was stacked with players from the 50s and 60s..

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Half his career was not a fwd/mid. And he’s kicked bags of 6 mate playing 50% forward. At least get your facts right.

His career best is 6. He has had plenty of forward games that he has achieved barely anything.

You guys are very obsessed with trying to shove this ridiculously elevated idea of Martin in every thread and either your not overly bright or easily offended, it’s one of the two.. but outside of Richmond every response is just laughing at your position.. maybe it’s time to realize he is great player, but not up there with the games best ever.

Unless you enjoy people degrading dusty all the time, you are doing him quite a disservice peddling your garbage

 

[James Colorado]

20 touches a game and 1.8 goals across his career.

Not sure what your grounds are for pretending Johnson didn’t play in the middle as well as up forward. It’s only 4 touches a game less than Martin. From 2011 he played AS A MIDFIELDER and in one of those seasons averaged over 28 touches a game.

He had 5 seasons where he averaged a minimum of 18.5 disposals AND 2+ goals a game AND at least one goal assist.

I seriously don’t think people appreciate how good the guy was

2013 Brownlow Medal - ineligible due to suspension. 25 votes (19 games). Ablett won with 28 (21 games).

2014 Brownlow Medal - ineligible due to suspension. 19 votes (18 games). Priddis won with 26 (22 games).

If he didn't have those moments of frustration which led to those suspensions, and in 2014 injury, he may have a very different reputation.

 

[STRONGandBALD]

His career best is 6. He has had plenty of forward games that he has achieved barely anything.

You guys are very obsessed with trying to shove this ridiculously elevated idea of Martin in every thread and either your not overly bright or easily offended, it’s one of the two.. but outside of Richmond every response is just laughing at your position.. maybe it’s time to realize he is great player, but not up there with the games best ever.

Unless you enjoy people degrading dusty all the time, you are doing him quite a disservice peddling your garbage

All I did was correct your inaccuracies and you call that garbage lol whatever

I suggested my team as per the thread, put Dusty in and you had a fit. I’m not doing anything, chuck me on ignore if you can’t handle it.