If the VFL/AFL greatest team of all time, was selected today, who is in, and who is out of the team of the century

[Cleansweep17]

Longevity doesn't always mean better.

You sir get it. 100% correct.

 

[boncer34]

I take your point, which is he's a coodabeen. Close yes, but not it.

Pratt a better single year. Hudson a better average. Dunstall and Lockett and Coventry for longer, Lockett in good and terrible sides. Pick your criteria, he doesn't top any of them. "But his knee" others will protest 9this is such a common argument, although to your credit you refuse to use it), what about my laziness? I coodabeen too.

Coleman was a freak, truly one of a kind, but not in any way the best of his kind: his star blazed for a short period in a dominant side in a pretty shabby era, the "play for fun" post WW2 league. We can debate professionalism in different eras, and I admit this is tricky, but its fair to point out he had superb support.

Coventry the first centurion and quality every year for 17 years. Lee the most frequent leading goalkicker, in an era when standouts were bashed repeatedly. Dunstall the most professional and greatest winner (really the second best ever, sadly for Coventry). Lockett the proven god of goalkicking, probably the best kick of a football to ever live-not trick shots, straight kicking from distance or any angle. Hudson the most accurate.

If we want to talk about coodabeens, Lockett was a fat lazy psycho, and still better than Coleman in a host of categories, in good sides and in rabbles.

It takes a lot of mental flexibility to promote Coleman past at least 3, probably 5 better FFs.

And yet between 1940 and 1968 (ish) only one player kicked a 100. He dominated that era like nobody else could.

 

[NetworkNerd]

Bernie Smiths spot is up for grabs imo... To not upset the Geelong Folk.. there are about 5 players from the Cats from the past 20 years that could go in that spot

 

[PhatBoy]

Bernie Smiths spot is up for grabs imo... To not upset the Geelong Folk.. there are about 5 players from the Cats from the past 20 years that could go in that spot

Doesn’t bother me if his spot is up for grabs. It’s hard to nail down a case for a lot of those other back half defensive type players

 

[smasha]

Noone has won three Norm Smiths in three grand finals.
Dusty beat practically the whole Geelong team in 2020.
His goal before half time,kept us in the game.

If he played for any other team,the media would put up him like us Tiger fans.

KB was another big game player,a champion.

 

[Cyclops]

Noone has won three Norm Smiths in three grand finals.
Dusty beat practically the whole Geelong team in 2020.
His goal before half time,kept us in the game.

If he played for any other team,the media would put up him like us Tiger fans.

KB was another big game player,a champion.

KB is the richmond hobby horse that got Frances Bourke chip traded in on the wing.

Not the best rover, not the best small forward. Reynolds, Bunton, harry Collier, Platten all easily better on the ball. Matthews and Daicos better forwards.

 

[My Tilly]

Noone has won three Norm Smiths in three grand finals.
Dusty beat practically the whole Geelong team in 2020.
His goal before half time,kept us in the game.

If he played for any other team,the media would put up him like us Tiger fans.

KB was another big game player,a champion.

Two of the three grand finals were lop sided games.
He pumped up the stat sheet when the games were done and dusted.

His best one was against Geelong but even then, Richmond booted 3 goals after halftime to even the scores before Martin kicks another. This myth that he single-handedly decided the outcome only comes from your supporters.
He was very good but like Bobby Hill last year, Martin made the most of his limited opportunities.

There is no way he is getting past the likes of Matthews, Ablett Sr or Bartlett. I mean Akermanis in his prime would be ahead of Martin based on total career output.

 

[Frewy]

I can't get involved in this discussion as I have not seen most of the players being discussed play. I have no context for deciding if player A is better than player B.

You may as well ask me who was a better Astronaut out of Libby Lenton and Gough Whitlam.

For these exercises I enjoy uncovering players of the past I didn't know much about, a study in the history of the game if you will. A side benefit is learning what kind of accolades and type of star player might come along in the future to put themselves up in these discussions. All of bit of fun, but I think the panel that picked the original team also struggled with this same issue with era bias.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Two of the three grand finals were lop sided games.
He pumped up the stat sheet when the games were done and dusted.

His best one was against Geelong but even then, Richmond booted 3 goals after halftime to even the scores before Martin kicks another. This myth that he single-handedly decided the outcome only comes from your supporters.
He was very good but like Bobby Hill last year, Martin made the most of his limited opportunities.

There is no way he is getting past the likes of Matthews, Ablett Sr or Bartlett. I mean Akermanis in his prime would be ahead of Martin based on total career output.

Please just stop it with that nonsense. Dusty was also the best finals series player 3 times. Including kicking a bag of 6 playing 50% game time in an away QF. To put it in perspective GAJ has only managed 2 goals in a final. Only 19 dis and 1 against that poor Port team too.

You won’t see a resume like Dustys again especially given his record H&A season on top of his finals records. Dusty, Lethal and Lockett are the only players to win essentially every award possible at least once.

 

[PhatBoy]

Please just stop it with that nonsense. Dusty was also the best finals series player 3 times. Including kicking a bag of 6 playing 50% game time in an away QF. To put it in perspective GAJ has only managed 2 goals in a final. Only 19 dis and 1 against that poor Port team too.

You won’t see a resume like Dustys again especially given his record H&A season on top of his finals records. Dusty, Lethal and Lockett are the only players to win essentially every award possible at least once.

Is that, true, though?

I mean I may be no mathematician but I only had to look at Gary Ablett Jr’s fourth ever final to see a number that I thought was higher than 2. I was taught that 3 came right after it.

Either that or you’re lying

 

[PhatBoy]

I’ve looked everywhere for Martin’s Coleman medals but can’t find them

 

[Engimal v3]

Dusty not close, please stop with this nonsense.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Dusty not close, please stop with this nonsense.

Well people have him in the team and he will be legend status in the HOF. Seems close to me.

 

[PhatBoy]

Well people have him in the team and he will be legend status in the HOF. Seems close to me.

You’re not on the selection panel so unfortunately it’s not that simple

 

[Bunk Moreland]

It's interesting to look at the team now and the old-school positional tropes it has

• The old "resting ruck in the back pocket"
• The wings are interesting. I think in any team like this now you just pick the five best mids to start on the ground (and probably jam some others onto half back and half forward flanks). They clearly chose to prioritise the old genuine "wingman" in Greig and Bourke.

It's not surprising as the selectors were pretty much all products of the 60s/70s era.

I would make these changes:

• Gary Ablett Jr in for Alex Jesaleunko. Ablett 2x Brownlow, 5x MVP, 3x Coaches MVP, 8x AA, one of the best players of all time. It's unquestionable he had a better career than Jezza, and I can reasonably put him on the HFF
• Carey in for Royce Hart: Carey simply overtook him as the best CHF. It was close even in 1996 with many preferring Carey.
• Scarlett in for Bernie Smith: I doubt many will agree with this, but for me Scarlett did as much as anybody to turn the role of key backman from dour stopper to team defender and also attacking weapon. Six AA selections speaks for itself
• Judd in for Francis Bourke: At his best he was just about the most complete player I've ever seen and could do it all. 6x AA, 2x Brownlow, 2x MVP, 2x WC B&F, 3x Carlton B&F. His record comfortably eclipses Bourke.
• Buddy in for Jack Dyer: Buddy is one of the more spectacular players we've ever seen, 1000 goals, 8x AA, 4x Coleman... again, his record simply eclipses Dyer, who is a player - as good as his record is - who was bigger than the game as a character and that undoubtedly helped to get him in.

The only other one who I think is on somewhat shaky ground is Kevin Murray, who I'm not sure has the overall record to make the team. But I really don't see any other genuine defenders i'd put in there. I could shoehorn another midfielder onto the HBF but don't really want to.

I'm also not rapt with Nicholls in the back pocket - terms of position - but he deserves his spot in the team so I'll leave him there.

So my team would be:

B: M Scarlett - S Silvagni - J Nicholls
HB: B Doull - T Whitten - K Murray
C: C Judd - I Stewart - K Greig
HF: G Ablett Jr - W Carey - R Reynolds
F: L Matthews - J Coleman - H Bunton
R: G Farmer - R Barassi - R Skilton
I: G Ablett Sr - L Franklin - G Williams

I've chosen not to add a fourth interchange but if we did, I'd just about go with Malcolm Blight I reckon, one of the major omissions from the original side. Played multiple positions, 330 games in SA and Vic, 786 goals, Brownlow, Magarey, Coleman and Farmer medals.

 

[Cyclops]

Dusty in a rare category of "big game" players like Snake Baker and Billy Picken.

None in contention for GOAT.

It's relevant, maybe Jezza is one if these? I recall gum from the late 79s as a top notch utility, muscular and versatile.

These utility types are hard to gauge, the Kekovich/Pavlich/Baldock pack busters with skills as welI

I think Whitten is the acme here, could play CHF CHB or on the ball.

Maybe Jezza was another Dusty type burst/big game player and not a team of the century guy?

 

[Engimal v3]

Well people have him in the team and he will be legend status in the HOF. Seems close to me.

If Dusty gets in, where do we draw the line? Is Scott Gumbleton in?

 

[Cleansweep17]

If Dusty gets in, where do we draw the line? Is Scott Gumbleton in?

I know you are salty Carey will never get in and Dusty will but don’t make it so obvious.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Dusty in a rare category of "big game" players like Snake Baker and Billy Picken.

None in contention for GOAT.

It's relevant, maybe Jezza is one if these? I recall gum from the late 79s as a top notch utility, muscular and versatile.

These utility types are hard to gauge, the Kekovich/Pavlich/Baldock pack busters with skills as welI

I think Whitten is the acme here, could play CHF CHB or on the ball.

Maybe Jezza was another Dusty type burst/big game player and not a team of the century guy?

They don’t have the records Dusty has in either H&A and Finals let alone having both. Such a shame you can’t appreciate seeing something that will never happen again.

HOF and Legend Status was made to acknowledge the greatest achievements of the game. Regardless of what you think of him as a player, the AFL will want to put the most decorated finals player at the highest pedestal to recognise the awards.

Why do you think GAS is on the bench in the TOC as opposed to somebody like Royce Hart? It’s solely the 0 flags, AFL heavily considered achievements (including flags) when they officially recognise somebody. Maybe that’s why Lockett wasn’t in either despite being a Legend in the HOF idk.

 

[PhatBoy]

I know you are salty Carey will never get in and Dusty will but don’t make it so obvious.

What are you going to do when this doesn’t happen? Nevermind that more than likely it will be a minimum of 20 years before the consider it - barring a 50th anniversary of the AFL team

 

[PhatBoy]

They don’t have the records Dusty has in either H&A and Finals let alone having both. Such a shame you can’t appreciate seeing something that will never happen again.

HOF and Legend Status was made to acknowledge the greatest achievements of the game. Regardless of what you think of him as a player, the AFL will want to put the most decorated finals player at the highest pedestal to recognise the awards.

Why do you think GAS is on the bench in the TOC as opposed to somebody like Royce Hart? It’s solely the 0 flags, AFL heavily considered achievements (including flags) when they officially recognise somebody. Maybe that’s why Lockett wasn’t in either despite being a Legend in the HOF idk.

Yeah strangely enough Lockett wasn’t a legend or hall of famer while he was still playing, at the time the original team was picked. It’s amazing that he wasn’t in there then, given that you have to be retired for a certain period of time, and THEN have to be in the HoF for a certain period before you can be elevated to legend status.

So I doubt they spent a lot of time considering his non-existent hall of fame and legend status when debating his presence in the original side

 

[Cleansweep17]

What are you going to do when this doesn’t happen? Nevermind that more than likely it will be a minimum of 20 years before the consider it - barring a 50th anniversary of the AFL team

Then Dusty is disqualified from GOAT discussions. Yes it will take a while.

 

[Engimal v3]

I know you are salty Carey will never get in and Dusty will but don’t make it so obvious.

Carey is a far better player than Dustin Martin. You know it, and I know it.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Carey is a far better player than Dustin Martin. You know it, and I know it.

Not in finals he isn’t.

 

[Engimal v3]

Not in finals he isn’t.

He is a far better player everywhere. That's why every Tigers supporter would trade Martin playing for their club for Carey. Even if you say you wouldn't, I know you would.