If the VFL/AFL greatest team of all time, was selected today, who is in, and who is out of the team of the century

[My Tilly]

Not in finals he isn’t.

Wrong!
Carey actually did it in a different era entirely. He always had multiple defenders hanging off him.

You are familiar with the stat '20 & 3' correct?
Not many top line players managed 10 in their entire careers and Carey managed this 8 times in 23 finals he played.
He was a colossus.

Martin's unfit to lace the Ducks boots.

 

[Cleansweep17]

He is a far better player everywhere. That's why every Tigers supporter would trade Martin playing for their club for Carey. Even if you say you wouldn't, I know you would.

Nah he brought our club more success than Carey did at North and hasn’t caused issues with the playing group.

But they play different positions so it’s not like for like anyway.

 

[Fadge]

You are familiar with the stat '20 & 3' correct?

Surely that's not better than 20 and 1 - the benchmark for absolute greatness?

 

[blaisee]

What is this crazy talk about the goat not being in the team of the century ?

Ridiculous, he will be the first picked, after all, he is the goat

 

[PhatBoy]

What is this crazy talk about the goat not being in the team of the century ?

Ridiculous, he will be the first picked, after all, he is the goat

Unfortunately Dustin Martin won’t be, though

 

[My Tilly]

Surely that's not better than 20 and 1 - the benchmark for absolute greatness?

Martin's played 16 finals, he has managed 20 touches & 2 goals in six finals. That's pretty good but a couple of other players are quickly closing in as we speak:

Greene 4x from 14 finals
Bontempelli 4x from 12 finals



It's not unprecedented.
Martin will be overtaken by somebody in the coming decade or two.

 

[Frewy]

The orginal was heavily politicized with clear chip trading and historical bias. 50s onwards dominates, where's Thurgood?

Dyer and Nichols were legendary leaders but no one in their era had them as the best player. Carltons own TotC had Southby at fullback.

Of course us Collingwood people were offended by the coaching choice. Smith was barely half the coach McHale was, numbers and reputation support this. That was politics. Just to melt a bit more, we won the most games, the most finals and once won 4 flags straight, but apparently never had great players. Also it wasn't the coach. Just lucky I guess.

In the same way Coleman was selected over players with longer careers, better numbers and more achievements like Lee, Coventry, Pratt, Hudson and more recently Lockett and Dunstall. Even at the time Lockett was a better player in my view, he's the most obviously change.

Hart vs Carey is a hot one, my bias is the Duck but Tigers (for once) have a case.

GAS has a case for wing HF and FF, bench is an insult.

Bunton, Reynolds, Farmer, Barrassi, Whitten and Greig seem obvious.

Skilton Matthews Bourke Bernie Smith Jezza Murray Doull Hart all greats, you could argue the toss but it's not a joke.

Coleman Dyer Nichols Silvagni Williams Bourke, yeah nah, try again.

Lockett (also Coventry and Dunstall) all clearly better than Coleman.

I'd love 3 Pies in. McHale fir Norm Smith (automatic on my view), Albert Collier and Jack Regan.

Others might be Chris Johnson (Brisbane) and Glen Jacovich,. Judging defenders is hard but those two stick out as gamechangers.

Era bias and out of position players are quite obvious in the side. With an extra 30 years this makes going back to correct these even harder with at least one original glaring omission to my mind being Albert Collier and as years have passed Tony Lockett as well.

How the best player of "The Machine" of the Pies four-peat (6x premiership player) was not included I'll probably never know but I will likely have him at Centre Half-back with Ted Whitten moved to the bench as the Utility in my version two. Recent era weighted goal analysis had Tony Lockett out front so he would take Coleman's spot.

What is striking is the amount of goalkicking midfielders you can put in this team, Dick Reynolds even said Bill Hutchison was even better than him at that's before we even get to guys like Gary Ablett Jr. and Dusty. I cut down my original team just before publishing to gather some extra feedback, but my next team will probably have four on the interchange, substitute and a couple of assistant coaches which gives a couple of outs on ridiculously subjective decisions.

Originally I tried to ensure all positions were covered through the eras which means I maybe missing a genuine small goalsneak that I'm using Lethal in and why I included Dangerfield on wing as a tall 190cm bursting goal kicking mid (modern position) think also Judd, Bont, Petracca. I think the team is missing a goalkicking ruck/forward as I think Nicholls was really competing for Farmer's position as a tap ruck.

 

[PhatBoy]

Martin's played 16 finals, he has managed 20 touches & 2 goals in six finals. That's pretty good but a couple of other players are quickly closing in as we speak:

Greene 4x from 14 finals
Bontempelli 4x from 12 finals



It's not unprecedented.
Martin will be overtaken by somebody in the coming decade or two.

Same as Stevie J. 6.
Even Chappy managed it 5 times

 

[PhatBoy]

Martin's played 16 finals, he has managed 20 touches & 2 goals in six finals. That's pretty good but a couple of other players are quickly closing in as we speak:

Greene 4x from 14 finals
Bontempelli 4x from 12 finals



It's not unprecedented.
Martin will be overtaken by somebody in the coming decade or two.

Toby Greene has already done it 4 times in 14 finals and has been a total of 8 touches off doing it another 3 times. By the end of the season there’s a very good chance he will have matched or gone past it.

Edit: didn’t see your Greene comment when I first saw your post

 

[Cleansweep17]

Unfortunately Dustin Martin won’t be, though

We won’t be alive to find out.

But who would’ve thunk a Geelong supporter doesn’t rate Dusty. I’m amazed.

 

[Frewy]

Same as Stevie J. 6.
Even Chappy managed it 5 times

I won't deny Martin's greatness in the modern game, but his finals record is unlikely unique in the full history of the game and likely sits with at least a few others who played in the great dynasty teams. The Norm Smith Medal is a relatively modern accolade and I think the Gary Ayres medal won't be useful for comparison for a number of decades yet.

 

[Cleansweep17]

What is this crazy talk about the goat not being in the team of the century ?

Ridiculous, he will be the first picked, after all, he is the goat

That’s why as at 2024 Lethal is the GOAT. It is indisputable. He is the only one that has all the credentials for GOAT status. He is Legend status, in the TOC, hads multiple flags and obviously that’s why he was picked as the best player of the 20th century. Sorry to break it to Geelong and North supporters that’s what the AFL has decreed. We don’t need anymore Snr or Carey talk anymore unless you want to debate 2-5th all time.

 

[PhatBoy]

We won’t be alive to find out.

But who would’ve thunk a Geelong supporter doesn’t rate Dusty. I’m amazed.

Who would have think Cleansweep would have equated someone not thinking a player is deserving of a spot among the 22 best ever to pull on a boot is tantamount to ‘not rating’ someone

 

[QuietB]

Junior to replace Senior on bench
Buddy to replace Jesaulenko
I have never been happy with Silvangi at FB but you can throw a blanket over half a dozen

That is it.

 

[My Tilly]

We won’t be alive to find out.

But who would’ve thunk a Geelong supporter doesn’t rate Dusty. I’m amazed.

I rate him highly. He is one of the best players of his generation but he just isn't one of the best footballers the game has ever known.

 

[Cyclops]

Era bias and out of position players are quite obvious in the side. With an extra 30 years this makes going back to correct these even harder with at least one original glaring omission to my mind being Albert Collier and as years have passed Tony Lockett as well.

How the best player of "The Machine" of the Pies four-peat (6x premiership player) was not included I'll probably never know but I will likely have him at Centre Half-back with Ted Whitten moved to the bench as the Utility in my version two. Recent era weighted goal analysis had Tony Lockett out front so he would take Coleman's spot.

What is striking is the amount of goalkicking midfielders you can put in this team, Dick Reynolds even said Bill Hutchison was even better than him at that's before we even get to guys like Gary Ablett Jr. and Dusty. I cut down my original team just before publishing to gather some extra feedback, but my next team will probably have four on the interchange, substitute and a couple of assistant coaches which gives a couple of outs on ridiculously subjective decisions.

Originally I tried to ensure all positions were covered through the eras which means I maybe missing a genuine small goalsneak that I'm using Lethal in and why I included Dangerfield on wing as a tall 190cm bursting goal kicking mid (modern position) think also Judd, Bont, Petracca. I think the team is missing a goalkicking ruck/forward as I think Nicholls was really competing for Farmer's position as a tap ruck.

You're right, good points all. Of course there's no "right" answer, eg some will favour Hart over Carey as a more pure CHF and who am I to disagree: its rarefied air up there and worth discussing (not like the silly Martin debate). Bont and Danger and Trac and the Freo blokes will come into focus as their retirements recede. 1983-1991ish Dermott was seen as superior to Dunstall, but once Dermie retired it became clear who the better player was. Ugly bottle Chief, fine wine.

My own bias is to include Whitten in his best spot CHB (or CHF). Mr Football, in a decent era, universally recognised superior to Barrassi, skilled, powerful and a leader. Arguably the captain of this side.

My (biased) view is Nicholls (a better captain than any other here I am told) was not in Farmer's league, and there were better rucks than Nicholls in the 60's let alone all time. I would have Simon Madden as second ruck on the bench, a superb champion and game changer almost at Farmer's level.

 

[QuietB]

Dustin Marin's best goal tally for a season is 37 goals. His next best is 32.

Why are we talking about him?

 

[nineteen eighty]

That’s why as at 2024 Lethal is the GOAT. It is indisputable. He is the only one that has all the credentials for GOAT status. He is Legend status, in the TOC, hads multiple flags and obviously that’s why he was picked as the best player of the 20th century. Sorry to break it to Geelong and North supporters that’s what the AFL has decreed. We don’t need anymore Snr or Carey talk anymore unless you want to debate 2-5th all time.

Lethal is unquestionably for mine the GOAT!!

Nick Daicos almost there. I haven't read the full thread but surely NDaicos has taken a spot on the half back line. Kevin Murray or Bruce Doull would be outed by now??

 

[Fadge]

Lethal is unquestionably for mine the GOAT!!

Nick Daicos almost there. I haven't read the full thread but surely NDaicos has taken a spot on the half back line. Kevin Murray or Bruce Doull would be outed by now??

Now we're talking.

But I think you're a year or two too early...

 

[Frewy]

Bernie Smiths spot is up for grabs imo... To not upset the Geelong Folk.. there are about 5 players from the Cats from the past 20 years that could go in that spot

I was definitely trying to make a case for someone like Enright, but as a pure back pocket not general or key defender the only contest I can see is fellow Brownlow winner Gavin Wanganeen. I've got Enright competing as the third defender with Paul Roos for that second back pocket in the role of a general/3rd tall defender, but I could see an argument that Roos should only be competing with Albert Collier and Ted Whitten (my bench Utility) for CHB.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Era bias and out of position players are quite obvious in the side. With an extra 30 years this makes going back to correct these even harder with at least one original glaring omission to my mind being Albert Collier and as years have passed Tony Lockett as well.

How the best player of "The Machine" of the Pies four-peat (6x premiership player) was not included I'll probably never know but I will likely have him at Centre Half-back with Ted Whitten moved to the bench as the Utility in my version two. Recent era weighted goal analysis had Tony Lockett out front so he would take Coleman's spot.

What is striking is the amount of goalkicking midfielders you can put in this team, Dick Reynolds even said Bill Hutchison was even better than him at that's before we even get to guys like Gary Ablett Jr. and Dusty. I cut down my original team just before publishing to gather some extra feedback, but my next team will probably have four on the interchange, substitute and a couple of assistant coaches which gives a couple of outs on ridiculously subjective decisions.

Originally I tried to ensure all positions were covered through the eras which means I maybe missing a genuine small goalsneak that I'm using Lethal in and why I included Dangerfield on wing as a tall 190cm bursting goal kicking mid (modern position) think also Judd, Bont, Petracca. I think the team is missing a goalkicking ruck/forward as I think Nicholls was really competing for Farmer's position as a tap ruck.

The original selectors showed amazing discipline in only including the one genuine full forward, there's probably six of them that nobody would quibble with, yet they didn't even try to squeeze an extra in the pocket.

Reynolds was famously modest and always said Hutchison was a better player than him - and looking at his record there may have been a bit more to it than just modesty. Even the little bit of footage we have (I think we have the 1949 and/or 1950 grand finals) shows Hutchison to be a very dynamic, damaging player.

I remember at the time there was furore from certain Essendon people that Hutchison was left out... there were people as young as 60 who could remember quite clearly him playing. I guess it's the same old story, who do you take out of the team for him.

The quote that stuck with me from then is that there had never been, nor ever will be, three teammates play together who were better than Coleman, Reynolds and Hutchison.

 

[QuietB]

Interesting looking at the original team there are 8 players from the 70's. Sounds about the right recency bias for something done in 1996.

 

[peetoo]

Interesting looking at the original team there are 8 players from the 70's. Sounds about the right recency bias for something done in 1996.

More peer recency bias in the HOF and the strict restrictions on the number of additions means it will persist for some time

 

[QuietB]

More peer recency bias in the HOF and the strict restrictions on the number of additions means it will persist for some time

I would say 8 from one decade is too many, just like 6 from one club is too many.

Collingwood not having a single player is just stupid.

 

[Fadge]

Collingwood not having a single player is just stupid.

As a Collingwood supporter, I don't have a real issue with it.

G. Coventry and A. Collier would have been the closest, but it's hard to argue against those selected ahead of them.

Very tough team to get selected in.