Cleansweep17
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Yeah they could catch me actually, I heard they have dual cab v8 scooters to get through to dung.
If the VFL/AFL greatest team of all time, was selected today, who is in, and who is out of the team of the century
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Yeah they could catch me actually, I heard they have dual cab v8 scooters to get through to dung.
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Naitanui was a better ruck for half Gawns career, he’s not even in the conversation mate
Please at least get your facts right before sprouting garbage like this.
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For sure 1996 was a dark period in the afl vfl history, some terrible stuff happening. Maybe this selection wasn’t immune either
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According to a prominent Carlton poster, out Hart/Coleman, in McKay and Curnow
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20 years ago they would have said fev and whitnall
I respectfully don't agree.
The game vs Crows was quite close for the first half at least. I was there on the day and thought Houli was BOG, after watching the replay I was less convinced, but generally am still of the view that Dusty won that NSM with some media frenzy behind him.
GWS less close obviously but when you're belting the crap out of a team by nearly 100 points everyone just talks about stat padding etc. What are they supposed to do, keep it close? Cats did this in 2007 as well - everyone was lining up for a sausage.
Re: 2020 GF, there's a crazy stat somewhere about Dusty only holding possession for about 2.5 seconds combined for all 4 of the goals he kicked. His first goal closed the gap a bit and swung momentum before half time, second goal put Richmond in front, third goal sealed the game and fourth goal iced the cake. Hardly stat padding and in a game of reduced minutes that's easily a 5+ goal effort in a grand final.
Obviously it takes a whole team but Dusty really destroyed the Cats in 2020. The idea that he just took advantage of a few moments here and there or got lucky is laughable. He put you to the sword and it was bloody glorious to beyond.
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Thanks for the correction. I have heard this repeated so often I assumed it was true. Stupid of me not to verify it.
If serious Carlton people consider Silvagni superior to Southby I have to reconsider my position.
threenewpadlocks
Brownlow Medallist
Issue is that the team already had a massive bias to players in the late 60's to mid 70's when the selection panel romantacised the game in their youth as much as possible.
There were champions of the game pre-WWII, pre-TV in 1956, (and pre-1930's depression which saw radio take off) that were as much champions on the field but didn't enter the generational understanding of the dominant players because footy moved on pretty quickly back then.
For example Dick Lee was a champion goalkicker in the WWI era and arguably more dominant compared to his peers than Coleman, Lockett and Dunstall ever were. He was a 7x competition leading goalkicker and any historians have gone through old newspapers magazines and that and many of them said he was the GOAT (e.g. someone writing in the 1950's said he was the greatest player in the 100-year history of the league). Yet people in this thread - questioning if Coleman shouldn't be in it - if Lockett should be in it. No, the biased view is that arguably Dick Lee should have been the FF for the team of the century, or at least healthy, proper historical debate should have been had.
The bias is done because when the team was announced all of the voters and viewers wanted to reminisce about players that they remembered watching and talking about, not to provide a purely historically accurate team.
Many people have also pointed this out with regards to the Hall of Fame. It's far better as a TV event and for people running the event to enjoy it for some recently retired player to be in the Hall of Fame than some guy who died 80 years ago and you're inviting his great-nephew's fourth cousin to the event, even if there are too few players in the first 60-odd years of footy history in the hall of fame (and the first 40 years of 100 years of a team of the century).
There were champions of the game pre-WWII, pre-TV in 1956, (and pre-1930's depression which saw radio take off) that were as much champions on the field but didn't enter the generational understanding of the dominant players because footy moved on pretty quickly back then.
For example Dick Lee was a champion goalkicker in the WWI era and arguably more dominant compared to his peers than Coleman, Lockett and Dunstall ever were. He was a 7x competition leading goalkicker and any historians have gone through old newspapers magazines and that and many of them said he was the GOAT (e.g. someone writing in the 1950's said he was the greatest player in the 100-year history of the league). Yet people in this thread - questioning if Coleman shouldn't be in it - if Lockett should be in it. No, the biased view is that arguably Dick Lee should have been the FF for the team of the century, or at least healthy, proper historical debate should have been had.
The bias is done because when the team was announced all of the voters and viewers wanted to reminisce about players that they remembered watching and talking about, not to provide a purely historically accurate team.
Many people have also pointed this out with regards to the Hall of Fame. It's far better as a TV event and for people running the event to enjoy it for some recently retired player to be in the Hall of Fame than some guy who died 80 years ago and you're inviting his great-nephew's fourth cousin to the event, even if there are too few players in the first 60-odd years of footy history in the hall of fame (and the first 40 years of 100 years of a team of the century).
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Piggy Smalls
Piggy’s in the middle
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I’d like to contribute to this thread as it’s a good premise, but I’m not 75 years old so I’ve got no idea who I would need to drop to let some of the recent players in.
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Carey is obvious. Not saying who should be left out
Sub? There weren’t 4 interchange for most of the century either
Sub? There weren’t 4 interchange for most of the century either
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In Kevin Bartlett as the forth interchange, out Jesaulenko in Buddy, our Ablett in Carey, out Coleman in Lockett
I don't think Ted Whitten is overrated. He played 20 years and reached 321 games in an era of 18 game seasons (ie: under the current rules probably close to 375-380) playing every position on the ground but mostly CHB and CHF. Won 5x club best and fairest awards including in the Bulldogs first (and for a long time only) premiership, and was the defining personality of his era. At one point the Prime Minister intervened to help him play in a final he was supposed to miss due to military service... he was a pretty big deal.
Barassi - I dunno, he essentially created the ruck-rover position as a big bodied clearance midfielder. It's probably fair to include him somehow. His move to Carlton changed the sport - it literally swung football's axis and after a 20-year premiership drought, Carlton went on to win 8 premierships in 28 years, which is a fairly dominant era.
The Barassi comparison would be had Chris Judd left West Coast for Carlton (where he was already considered one of the best mids of all time), and come to the struggling Blues, won a premiership there in say, 2011, then again in 2013, then retired, but left Carlton as the dominant club... in a way Judd took his shot at Barassi's spot in the team and missed, so it's probably fair to keep him there.
The Ted Whitten comparison in the modern era, and someone who I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned is Adam Goodes. A dual brownlow medallist who won the award playing two completely different positions and the only 'big' of the modern era to win it. 372 games (so similar to Whitten in durability), won 2x premierships including leading his team to break a 66 year drought... and more importantly, defined the sport as a personality to the extent he was recognised as Australian of the Year. IMO he's the most important player of the 2000s.
I'd probably keep Whitten and Barassi in the team, and would slot Goodes in as well - you could put him anywhere really, but maybe adding a 4th bench spot to reflect his utility status.
I dont doubt they are greats, Its so hard to say and compare, Scott West won 7 b and f at that club but is nowhere near.
Im just listing players that arent in Voss, Ablett jnr, Riccutio, Scarlett, Rance, Judd. People say that Bont is the best bulldog ever already right now as well so I just find it hard to gauge. Your insight seems very well thought out and you seem to have great knowledge on the two so it does help me in keeping them as solids.
The story goes that David Parkin had the deciding vote at full back and chose SOS instead of Regan which appears a little controversial because Parkin coached SOS and even he has admitted there was some favouritism in his vote.
Also with Collingwood, there most successful period was before the 50's so there was probably a lot of recency bias when the team was selected in 1996.
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Have to agree with btdg here, Barrassi was a player of enormous importance.
His skills were apparently good, not great, but he was a leader of the highest order, and played with brutal energy at rhe ball. Extremely consistent and improved everyone around him.
My old man (Collingwood) and footy addict mates who all loathed Melbourne (and most them loathed Carlton) had him at the very pinnacle, up with our vaunted Bob Rose.
Politically a lock but quite justified, as mentioned he and Smith invented ruck-roving.
- Jul 13, 2015
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No. They changed the way football was played. Barassi probably more through his coaching but he was a brilliant footballer.
For mine:
Out: Hart, Coleman, Nicholls, Greig
In: Carey, Hudson, Scarlett(?), Flower
I may be showing my age, but there was recency bias when picked in 1996. There's also recency bias if people are seriously contemplating Dusty over Jesaulenko.
Hart was a terribly inaccurate kick for much of his career, gave away too many freekicks. Also struggled to play a full season. Sure, he's a legend and took some amazing marks. Carey dominated the competition for eight years, whereas Hart had three great seasons scattered among some very good ones.
Peter Hudson at full-forward over Coleman is a no-brainer for mine. In 1972 and 1973 they brought him back for one game and he kicked 8 goals both times. Then, after two years out of the game, he plays all of 1977 and kicks 110.
As for Nichols in the back pocket? Laughable. If we're picking players who revolutionized a position, it may even by M Scarlett.
Greig? Sheesh. Even during his era, Schimmelbusch was better. Wingman have to kick some goals and he simply did not. That said, the wing really only came into its own after the centre square, so modern candidates are all we have. Flower it is.
Out: Hart, Coleman, Nicholls, Greig
In: Carey, Hudson, Scarlett(?), Flower
I may be showing my age, but there was recency bias when picked in 1996. There's also recency bias if people are seriously contemplating Dusty over Jesaulenko.
Hart was a terribly inaccurate kick for much of his career, gave away too many freekicks. Also struggled to play a full season. Sure, he's a legend and took some amazing marks. Carey dominated the competition for eight years, whereas Hart had three great seasons scattered among some very good ones.
Peter Hudson at full-forward over Coleman is a no-brainer for mine. In 1972 and 1973 they brought him back for one game and he kicked 8 goals both times. Then, after two years out of the game, he plays all of 1977 and kicks 110.
As for Nichols in the back pocket? Laughable. If we're picking players who revolutionized a position, it may even by M Scarlett.
Greig? Sheesh. Even during his era, Schimmelbusch was better. Wingman have to kick some goals and he simply did not. That said, the wing really only came into its own after the centre square, so modern candidates are all we have. Flower it is.
Cleansweep17
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Bit Harsh on Hart, he and Carey are widely regarded as the 2 top CHFs ever. I’d move Hart to the bench even if it means getting rid of Dyer if anything.
Cleansweep17
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Hmm
I can sort of see what you are saying. I think Hawks win the same amount of flags with Judd or Gary over Hodge.
On the flip side however:
Hodge over Judd 05 and 06 should probably net the same flags
Hodge over 07-10 Gary would probably get the Cats an extra flag in 08 and the rest the same result.
I think Hodge is very underrated, best strategic captain and 2nd biggest game player of the modern era. I probably fit him in my team. Combined with Dusty, idk how they would lose a GF.
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Selwood in 05 draft peddles in 06. They can Keep junior and judd, what’s to say they wouldn’t have chased bigger dollars anyway?
Hawthorn team 07-15 with Selwood and Pendles. Frightening would have been close to the riches of the late eighties hawks
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Contemplating leaving Jezza out ? LOL
AFL Hall of Fame Legend
Started as a dangerous half forward
The one season he played full forward he kicked over 100 goals, if he played there all his career he’d kick 1000
Then became a champion centreman and later in his career a very good backman
So versatile, catlike on the ground and Ablett Snr. like in the air
Cultural icon, every kid in the 70s schoolyard screams “Jezza” or “Jesaulenko” when flying for a mark in kick to kick
Shared the record for goals in a grand final with 7 until Ablett Snr. broke it
4 time premiership player
Last VFL/AFL premiership Captain Coach ever and might have had a couple more if not for the big board blue that saw him finish his career at St. Kilda
AFL Hall of Fame Legend
Started as a dangerous half forward
The one season he played full forward he kicked over 100 goals, if he played there all his career he’d kick 1000
Then became a champion centreman and later in his career a very good backman
So versatile, catlike on the ground and Ablett Snr. like in the air
Cultural icon, every kid in the 70s schoolyard screams “Jezza” or “Jesaulenko” when flying for a mark in kick to kick
Shared the record for goals in a grand final with 7 until Ablett Snr. broke it
4 time premiership player
Last VFL/AFL premiership Captain Coach ever and might have had a couple more if not for the big board blue that saw him finish his career at St. Kilda
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