List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part I

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At least we have learnt a few things this year:

1. Sinclair and McKenzie are elite. Sinclair in particular but Mckenzie when he was healthy had really good ball use, running, overhead marking and general physicality.

2. Our recent draft was very good. Windhager has been one of the few recent draftees who has come in and actually been able to play in the midfield in his first year (Clark still isn't able to do that). Owens is a beast. And NWM is our best kick and has been able to play 16 games - with another preseason he is clearly going to occupy a wing for us (can take overhead marks and is taller than he seems).

3. I think we have figured out that Zak Jones isn't really a long term player for us. He is alright, but nothing special with the ball in hand and doesn't get enough contested possessions/clearances to make up for it.

4. King has a lot to work on. Clearly he has a lot of talent, but is not physical enough and not strong enough. Obviously his goal kicking is a work in progress. He could become the best player in the comp, but at the moment he just falls over way too easily.

5. Wood has been a good find. His running and overhead marking means it is easy to see him playing a connecting role on the wing/hff moving forward. Think he has done enough to get an actual contract for next year.

6. Battle only looks good when he is back. Looks lost forward or when playing on the wing. Has played well down back but I still wonder if he is good enough to lock down the position for the next 5 years.

7. Jack Steele took a big step backwards. Went from being a top 10 player to being a top 50 player which has meant our midfield looks a bit lost. Seb Ross has stepped up and been really strong (his ball use has been awesome) but we need more from Steele. Crouch has been good without being special.

8. Hill has been ok, but definitely not the player you want to be paying 800k to. He runs all day which is good, but his ball use has been disappointing which was the key reason we got him.

9. Rowan looks like he will be able to carry the number 1 ruck responsibility. Ryder is clearly on the way out and I guess we already knew this from 2019, but good to be reminded.

10. Byrnes and Bytel probably aren't good enough. They are still young but have been overtaken by Windhager and Owens so not really sure how they get back into the team. Connolly is on the way out, Lienert has been ok but Wood has been better. Paton has been average and really needs to tick up a notch in order to keep his spot with Mckenzie and Coffield coming back next year.

11. Sharman is an interesting prospect for next year. Seems to be able to read the play well as a backman and can see him developing. Not sure he makes it, but interesting to watch.

12. Dougal Howard would have to be the most frustrating player to watch. He has all the tools to be elite but isn't quite there (gives away silly free kicks or has brain fades with the ball). Webster and Wilkie are solid citizens but aren't setting the world on fire. Still need one of these (or battle) to really become an elite interceptor as we still don't really have one.

13. I really wish we would experiment with Sinclair as a permanent Mid. Yes he is an AA half back, but just think that with his added confidence, he has all the tools (pressure, decision making, ball use, physicality) to turn into a top tier mid. Hope that there is some experimentation in the preseason.

14. Not sure what the long term future of Billings is. He isn't damaging enough with the ball, doesn't have enough speed and doesn't provide enough pressure. Don't think he can play wing (isn't the best runner) and don't think he can play small forward (not enough pressure). Maybe he comes back from the injuries and is able to lock down a HFF but I wonder if we experiment with him at half back at all?

15. Curious to see what Jack Hayes looks like coming back from injury. If he can play forward/ruck he is the perfect complement to Marshall and can give us a bit more structure in our forward line.

Here were our top 5 in AFL player ratings this year which is interesting:

1. Sinclair - 15
2. Seb Ross - 12.6
3. Jack Steele - 12.6
4. Rowan Marshall - 12.2
5. Jade Gresham - 11

Delistings: Dean Kent, Jack Bytel, Leo Connolly, Jarryn Geary, Daniel Hannebery (maybe rookie list), Tom Highmore, Darragh Joyce, Jarrod Lienert, Josiah Kyle, Tom Campbell, Zak Jones
 
Not really. If we were a normal club who took advantage of their early picks, we could’ve had those players.

But we’re obsessed with splitting/trading down and trying to get too smart with it


I've been warning about this for 10 years. If you look at every player award from Brownlow to B & F awards they are nearly all taken in the first half of the first round.


Last year's Brownlow leaders-
Wines pick 7
Bontempelli pick 4
Walsh pick 1
Parish pick 5
Steele pick 24 -Giants academy
Mitchell 21- Sydney FS selection
Boak pick 5
Lyons pick 61
Petracca pick 2.

You might arse one later but in all reality you are getting your guns in that early part of the draft.
 
At least we have learnt a few things this year:

1. Sinclair and McKenzie are elite. Sinclair in particular but Mckenzie when he was healthy had really good ball use, running, overhead marking and general physicality.

2. Our recent draft was very good. Windhager has been one of the few recent draftees who has come in and actually been able to play in the midfield in his first year (Clark still isn't able to do that). Owens is a beast. And NWM is our best kick and has been able to play 16 games - with another preseason he is clearly going to occupy a wing for us (can take overhead marks and is taller than he seems).

3. I think we have figured out that Zak Jones isn't really a long term player for us. He is alright, but nothing special with the ball in hand and doesn't get enough contested possessions/clearances to make up for it.

4. King has a lot to work on. Clearly he has a lot of talent, but is not physical enough and not strong enough. Obviously his goal kicking is a work in progress. He could become the best player in the comp, but at the moment he just falls over way too easily.

5. Wood has been a good find. His running and overhead marking means it is easy to see him playing a connecting role on the wing/hff moving forward. Think he has done enough to get an actual contract for next year.

6. Battle only looks good when he is back. Looks lost forward or when playing on the wing. Has played well down back but I still wonder if he is good enough to lock down the position for the next 5 years.

7. Jack Steele took a big step backwards. Went from being a top 10 player to being a top 50 player which has meant our midfield looks a bit lost. Seb Ross has stepped up and been really strong (his ball use has been awesome) but we need more from Steele. Crouch has been good without being special.

8. Hill has been ok, but definitely not the player you want to be paying 800k to. He runs all day which is good, but his ball use has been disappointing which was the key reason we got him.

9. Rowan looks like he will be able to carry the number 1 ruck responsibility. Ryder is clearly on the way out and I guess we already knew this from 2019, but good to be reminded.

10. Byrnes and Bytel probably aren't good enough. They are still young but have been overtaken by Windhager and Owens so not really sure how they get back into the team. Connolly is on the way out, Lienert has been ok but Wood has been better. Paton has been average and really needs to tick up a notch in order to keep his spot with Mckenzie and Coffield coming back next year.

11. Sharman is an interesting prospect for next year. Seems to be able to read the play well as a backman and can see him developing. Not sure he makes it, but interesting to watch.

12. Dougal Howard would have to be the most frustrating player to watch. He has all the tools to be elite but isn't quite there (gives away silly free kicks or has brain fades with the ball). Webster and Wilkie are solid citizens but aren't setting the world on fire. Still need one of these (or battle) to really become an elite interceptor as we still don't really have one.

13. I really wish we would experiment with Sinclair as a permanent Mid. Yes he is an AA half back, but just think that with his added confidence, he has all the tools (pressure, decision making, ball use, physicality) to turn into a top tier mid. Hope that there is some experimentation in the preseason.

14. Not sure what the long term future of Billings is. He isn't damaging enough with the ball, doesn't have enough speed and doesn't provide enough pressure. Don't think he can play wing (isn't the best runner) and don't think he can play small forward (not enough pressure). Maybe he comes back from the injuries and is able to lock down a HFF but I wonder if we experiment with him at half back at all?

15. Curious to see what Jack Hayes looks like coming back from injury. If he can play forward/ruck he is the perfect complement to Marshall and can give us a bit more structure in our forward line.

Here were our top 5 in AFL player ratings this year which is interesting:

1. Sinclair - 15
2. Seb Ross - 12.6
3. Jack Steele - 12.6
4. Rowan Marshall - 12.2
5. Jade Gresham - 11

Delistings: Dean Kent, Jack Bytel, Leo Connolly, Jarryn Geary, Daniel Hannebery (maybe rookie list), Tom Highmore, Darragh Joyce, Jarrod Lienert, Josiah Kyle, Tom Campbell, Zak Jones


Billings is worth nothing, he either does a Seb Ross or he stays at Sandy to train the kids.

Sinclair to the midfield would be my first move. If you have an elite player chuck him where he does the most damage, not where you can use him to stop others doing damage. I reckon he'd be considered a superstar if he was playing on ball. Hopefully Lenny sees where he should play.
 

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If our forward line is Gresh, Higgins, King, Butler, Membrey, Zurhaar with Roma stretching and Owens and Windy resting thats pretty ******* terrifying for oppo.

So with only adding cameron zuhaar... our forward line goes from terrifying our own supporters, to terrifying opposition teams?

Riiiight.
 
So with only adding cameron zuhaar... our forward line goes from terrifying our own supporters, to terrifying opposition teams?

Riiiight.
Terrifying on paper, with a year of development in Owens, Windy and return of Gresh (plus Hayes).

Doesnt mean it will do anything (or they all end up kicking like Max) but as a paper match up thats pretty tough for any backline.
 
Terrifying on paper, with a year of development in Owens, Windy and return of Gresh (plus Hayes).

Doesnt mean it will do anything (or they all end up kicking like Max) but as a paper match up thats pretty tough for any backline.
Owen’s looks a forward threat but windy hasn’t really shown it yet. Pre draft was a goal kicking mid. His secret weapon for the pre season
 
Not really. If we were a normal club who took advantage of their early picks, we could’ve had those players.

But we’re obsessed with splitting/trading down and trying to get too smart with it
to clever for our own good we out smart ourselves
 
Billings is worth nothing, he either does a Seb Ross or he stays at Sandy to train the kids.

Sinclair to the midfield would be my first move. If you have an elite player chuck him where he does the most damage, not where you can use him to stop others doing damage. I reckon he'd be considered a superstar if he was playing on ball. Hopefully Lenny sees where he should play.

Rory Laird is the easiest comparison. Was an AA half back averaging about 1 clearance a game, but moved into the midfield the past 2 years and averaged 14.8 and 15.1 contested possessions and 6.9 and 7.6 clearances respectively. Is the 8th highest ranked player in the AFL player ratings.

Sinclair is a year younger and not sure if he has that in him, but I am curious to find out.
 
A decade of Saints first rounders.

No B&F’s or All Australians.

Players taken with the next 2-3 picks after some of these picks

Petracca, Bont, Naughton, Harry McKay, Charlie Curnow, Jy Simpkin, Max Holmes.

I know every club has blunders… but this is 10 years of bed shitting outside of Max.

2021 - NWM

2020 - Allison

2019 - Traded out

2018 - King

2017 Clark & Coffield

2016 - Traded out

2015 - Gresham

2014 - McCartin

2013 - Billings

2012 - Traded out
Wow max Holmes now sitting with names like petracca and Bont.

Also here’s Geelongs first picks each year.
21- Conway 0 games
20- Holmes
19- stephens 8 games
18- Clark gone
17- Fogarty gone
16- traded
15- traded
14- Cockatoo gone
13- lang gone
12- thurlow gone
 
Marshall has a tendency to let his opponent of the leash. Oscar McInerny is a pretty good yardstick of whether you are elite or sub-elite. Oscar was too influential on Friday night.
Stanley also had his way early in the cats game too, despite Marshall finishing statistically well, got owned in the bounces first quarter.
 
Owen’s looks a forward threat but windy hasn’t really shown it yet. Pre draft was a goal kicking mid. His secret weapon for the pre season
True but he still makes a tough match up if nothing else.

My point was probably more around the names on paper make it tough to cover every player.

I said the same thing for DeGoey if we got him, just means there is absolutely no weak link in the forward line on paper.

Plus DeGoey/Zurhaar demands a good defender so Higgins probably gets an easier match up as does Membrey.
 

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I think i said in the match preview for Brisbane that there isnt a weak link in that forward line (Daniher, Cameron, Hipwood, McStay, Rayner, McCarthy) then McCluggage, O-Mac, Zorko etc rolling through.

On Friday it was really Rayner who got us in the past Charlie had his way with us. If you have 6-7-8 genuinely dangerous forwards it gives opposition coaches nightmares. I think King, Butler, Higgins, Membrey, Zurharr/DeGoey, Owens, Hayes plus Roma, Steele, Windy is just a lot to stop.

Also i dont think our forward line is devoid of talent, it gets trash supply and has a busted structure.
 
I think i said in the match preview for Brisbane that there isnt a weak link in that forward line (Daniher, Cameron, Hipwood, McStay, Rayner, McCarthy) then McCluggage, O-Mac, Zorko etc rolling through.

On Friday it was really Rayner who got us in the past Charlie had his way with us. If you have 6-7-8 genuinely dangerous forwards it gives opposition coaches nightmares. I think King, Butler, Higgins, Membrey, Zurharr/DeGoey, Owens, Hayes plus Roma, Steele, Windy is just a lot to stop.

Also i dont think our forward line is devoid of talent, it gets trash supply and has a busted structure.
That forward line still has the same issue of a lack of a proper 2nd target.
 
That forward line still has the same issue of a lack of a proper 2nd target.


We could send Coops in now and Hayes comes back. We choose to play everything through King. It's instructed or our players are a bit dim.
 
Rory Laird is the easiest comparison. Was an AA half back averaging about 1 clearance a game, but moved into the midfield the past 2 years and averaged 14.8 and 15.1 contested possessions and 6.9 and 7.6 clearances respectively. Is the 8th highest ranked player in the AFL player ratings.

Sinclair is a year younger and not sure if he has that in him, but I am curious to find out.

Sinclair reminds me of Joey a bit. Joey started as a small forward, and just slowly got better and better until he was actually one of our best mids.
 
I’d argue that Hayes/Roma is as good as most second talls. Geelong and Carlton have absolutely ridiculous twin towers but ours as good as most others. Melbourne argurably has none and just won a flag.
Sorry, I completely skipped over Hayes name. He’s got the big body and some height which we really sorely lack at the moment.

I hope he can return to the form he did pre knee because he became such an important piece to the side very quickly.
 
We could send Coops in now and Hayes comes back. We choose to play everything through King. It's instructed or our players are a bit dim.
We use to do the same with Rooter.
 
Coff back takes sincs spot, sincs middle so bye bye jones

Fwds
Cooper Hayes King
Higgo gresh throw skunk there.
Roma and Hayes ruck/rest fwd

Top 4

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Needs more Zurhaar.

I know we’re not getting him, I know it was only suggested this morning and has as much chance of me sleeping with Em Rata but if we say it here enough you just never know
 
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