List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part III

[George]

The embedded resources below are kept up to date by the trade board mods (as much as possible – we are human after all). Enjoy!

Spoiler: 2023 Draft Order

Spoiler: 2024 Draft Order, aka Future Picks

Spoiler: Blue Tick Rumours

Courtesy of Lore

 

[Klaatu]

It’s not really a hypothetical, it’s a reference to repeating the same mistakes for no benefit.
Billings and Gresham were 100% untouchable a couple of years back, they have a tough time with injury and everyone says their s**t all of a sudden.

Last i heard Gresham is making his own decision, who is pushing him out

Billings has a 2 year contract doesn't need to even look over the fence.

 

[Murraj1966]

What’s a Coffield?

 

[bird_man]

Who’s suggesting we should agree with every decision the club makes?

I just don’t understand the hand-wringing and breast-scratching over losing a bloke who never plays, that we offered a contract to.

He chose to go elsewhere. That’s the game.

So have Henry and (presumably) Dow.

I'd imagine most people are upset to lose him because they believe that if he gets his body right he's going to be a quality AFL player.

He wouldn't be the first player to come back and have a strong career after a few injuries.

And the fact that we will lose a very talented player for next to nothing.

If you disagree then fine, just seems weird you are taking pot shots and fans that aren't happy about losing a player they believe will eventually turn into something good.

 

[stavro#4]

 

[Max the great]

Absolutely clutching at straws here. Who's said he is a superstar? He's a young player with potentially a big future if he can get and stay fit.

I think it's fair if fans are upset he is going when apparently he's been offered a crappy deal and you have blokes like Jones who are always injured, at the end of there career and have no scope to improve getting offered extensions.

 

[gringo2011]

At the offer thats what we get, but the incredible thing is we are still going ahead with the steak knives deal with an overpaid 31 y.o injured mid that hasn't played well in five years.

I bet we pay overs for him plus all his salary while getting pick 61 for Coffield.

What a joke this is turning out to be.

As I've said all along. I don't think the list managers see Shiel as a steak knife. He's an actual target. It's been tacked on to Gresham's compensation and that has muddied the water. The club must want him to use. He's been an A grade player at one point and I think they see it as a cheap way to end up with a quality player. It's a very high risk gamble and getting a broken down overpaid old guy.

The benefits are that if he comes in he's still able to play good footy, he sucks up cap space so we don't over-contract young players and keeps them hungry and he won't really cost much. Get him right and he's potentially in our best few players. Get it wrong and it sucks-up money and spot that could have been used on youth with upside or longer term targets.

I guess the good news is that Lyon must think we are closer challenging if we are chasing these kind of short term fixes. Personally I don't think we should be waiting either. We probably have a 3 to 4 year window with our older players and then we are back to trying to bring in a refreshed list again.

I'm nervous as **** but I'll wait until the dust has settled to have a proper melt.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

McLean, Khamis... that's about it

Charlie Clarke would be nice.

 

[stavro#4]

It’s not really a hypothetical, it’s a reference to repeating the same mistakes for no benefit.
Billings and Gresham were 100% untouchable a couple of years back, they have a tough time with injury and everyone says their s**t all of a sudden.

What mistake?

Both players are choosing to leave.

Billings is contracted and wanting a fresh start. We are happy to oblige for the right price.

We want to keep Gresham on our terms. He wants more money and can apparently get it. We want fair value for him

Coffield has a contract offer and is choosing to leave.

What exactly are we doing wrong here?

Unless your upset that we should be moving heaven and earth to keep them all …

 

[gringo2011]

Young Khamis might be a fair player swap…Membrey replacement?

I really like Khamis. I'd definitely take him, he plays like small/medium forward even though he's tall. He's like a taller version of Snags with more mobility. I think having him and Coops in the forward line adds some defensive pressure without giving away height.

Otherwise Rhylee West was starting to look good last year and played out of position. I think he'd be pretty handy if we played him on ball.

 

[stavro#4]

As I've said all along. I don't think the list managers see Shiel as a steak knife. He's an actual target. It's been tacked on to Gresham's compensation and that has muddied the water. The club must want him to use. He's been an A grade player at one point and I think they see it as a cheap way to end up with a quality player. It's a very high risk gamble and getting a broken down overpaid old guy.

The benefits are that if he comes in he's still able to play good footy, he sucks up cap space so we don't over-contract young players and keeps them hungry and he won't really cost much. Get him right and he's potentially in our best few players. Get it wrong and it sucks-up money and spot that could have been used on youth with upside or longer term targets.

I guess the good news is that Lyon must think we are closer challenging if we are chasing these kind of short term fixes. Personally I don't think we should be waiting either. We probably have a 3 to 4 year window with our older players and then we are back to trying to bring in a refreshed list again.

I'm nervous as * but I'll wait until the dust has settled to have a proper melt.

You are correct.

Shiel is the Senior/Proven support for Steele referenced by Ross.

Dow unproven but we want to see if we can develop him.

 

[kernelT]

Hang on you forgot

Ian Stewart
Rod Gault
Russel Greene

How far back you want to go

Maybe just Joel Smith, that one has a lot in common with Coff.

 

[gringo2011]

Charlie Clarke would be nice.

A few here were keen on him in the draft.

 

[gringo2011]

Nearly always is. Every year this thread gets people hyped - first rounder for Acres nothing less, Dusty seen lunching in Brighton cafe with Joey etc etc.

Unless we end up with Clayton Oliver, two first round picks from Gresham and everyone else we want for nothing, supporters in this thread are going to be massively disappointed.

My tip. We get pick 20 plus for Gresh, late 2nd for Coff, one of those goes for Henry, Shiel talk disappears and we go to the draft with what we have left.

If we get a late second for Coff I think I'd be disappointed but not want to spew. I don't think we'll get that. They don't have much to offer up and his value isn't that high. High picks have a few years where they have potential and then they are just players who have earned their next contract/trade on merit.

 

[Mowman]

You are correct.

Shiel is the Senior/Proven support for Steele referenced by Ross.

Dow unproven but we want to see if we can develop him.

So we have gone from Shiel for pick 13/19
To now he is good for Steele

RTB also said we will build through the draft for Steele and leadership at B&F

Would rather Owens in there next year then Shiel

 

[Barrels]

I'd imagine most people are upset to lose him because they believe that if he gets his body right he's going to be a quality AFL player.

He wouldn't be the first player to come back and have a strong career after a few injuries.

And the fact that we will lose a very talented player for next to nothing.

If you disagree then fine, just seems weird you are taking pot shots and fans that aren't happy about losing a player they believe will eventually turn into something good.

Pot shots?

Jesus. Get a grip.

 

[Joffaboy]

As I've said all along. I don't think the list managers see Shiel as a steak knife. He's an actual target. It's been tacked on to Gresham's compensation and that has muddied the water. The club must want him to use. He's been an A grade player at one point and I think they see it as a cheap way to end up with a quality player. It's a very high risk gamble and getting a broken down overpaid old guy.

The benefits are that if he comes in he's still able to play good footy, he sucks up cap space so we don't over-contract young players and keeps them hungry and he won't really cost much. Get him right and he's potentially in our best few players. Get it wrong and it sucks-up money and spot that could have been used on youth with upside or longer term targets.

I guess the good news is that Lyon must think we are closer challenging if we are chasing these kind of short term fixes. Personally I don't think we should be waiting either. We probably have a 3 to 4 year window with our older players and then we are back to trying to bring in a refreshed list again.

I'm nervous as * but I'll wait until the dust has settled to have a proper melt.

Well the list managers need to have some confidence that the steak knives can add value, but for it worthwhile for us, we needs something extra like a band 1.

Your second sentence is spot on, and if it did go belly up, the high pick would be the trade off for the big risk.

With these short term fixes as you indicated, they are gone in a year or two, so the compo pick, the young draftee, would have been developed in that time, or so the theory goes. We can't bring in 31 y.o's Sheil and Haynes without this high quality young draftees coming in.

Like you, I am feeling nervous, but you are correct, I will wait for the dust to settle.

Holy S.hit Morris just said Gres will be offered 750-800k by Essendon

 

[Klaatu]

Great another player for Casey, well done Melbourne

 

[phantom13]

As I've said all along. I don't think the list managers see Shiel as a steak knife. He's an actual target. It's been tacked on to Gresham's compensation and that has muddied the water. The club must want him to use. He's been an A grade player at one point and I think they see it as a cheap way to end up with a quality player. It's a very high risk gamble and getting a broken down overpaid old guy.

The benefits are that if he comes in he's still able to play good footy, he sucks up cap space so we don't over-contract young players and keeps them hungry and he won't really cost much. Get him right and he's potentially in our best few players. Get it wrong and it sucks-up money and spot that could have been used on youth with upside or longer term targets.

I guess the good news is that Lyon must think we are closer challenging if we are chasing these kind of short term fixes. Personally I don't think we should be waiting either. We probably have a 3 to 4 year window with our older players and then we are back to trying to bring in a refreshed list again.

I'm nervous as * but I'll wait until the dust has settled to have a proper melt.

I see it, i just dont think hes worth pick 13 if we get that as compo.

I have no opposition to getting Shiel, on the whole assesment (lose gresh, take on that salary) hes not worth anything in the first round.

Rather keep Gresh than do that deal TBH and im not exactly in Greshs fan club.

 

[Joffaboy]

I really like Khamis. I'd definitely take him, he plays like small/medium forward even though he's tall. He's like a taller version of Snags with more mobility. I think having him and Coops in the forward line adds some defensive pressure without giving away height.

Otherwise Rhylee West was starting to look good last year and played out of position. I think he'd be pretty handy if we played him on ball.

Hate it when I agree with you two posts on the trot, either you are becoming more reasonable, or I am becoming more unhinged

 

[Joffaboy]

I see it, i just dont think hes worth pick 13 if we get that as compo.

I have no opposition to getting Shiel, on the whole assesment (lose gresh, take on that salary) hes not worth anything in the first round.

Rather keep Gresh than do that deal TBH and im not exactly in Greshs fan club

Am I reading this right? You think we are giving pick 13 for Sheil? If so, the AFL said we cannot swap the compo pick back to the club that got the FA.

Also this has been debunked a million times. If there is a pick 13, it will be in the STKFC column, not Essendon's.

 

[gringo2011]

Totally agree with all of this. For 13, even 19, sure. But I don’t want Shiel in any other situation and goes completely against what they’ve been saying about going to thedraft.

I'm not sure now. The draft is great. All of our high picks should go to the draft unless a deal so good comes up that you'd be crazy not to do it. We are carrying a lot of players with under 3 years footy under their belt. There is a point that too much youth becomes a tip over into uncompetitiveness. We'd be better to try to trade picks up every year and get one great pick than multiple late firsts (although this year is a weird draft).

Chasing players like Dow and Henry with some older players to fill holes actually looks alright as a strategy now. I think I understand what they're trying to do at least now. We just have to actually nail all our moves.

 

[pebblesofsand]

He is saying Gresham wants to go to Essendon.

The hold up is finalising the wage and compo to satisfy us

2 separate things. The actual public nomination is a formality

So its not 100% that Gresham will nominate Essendon.

Gresham only wants to go to Essendon if its a better deal than St Kilda are prepared to offer him.

So he could also say its 100% that Gresham will nominate to stay with St Kilda IF Essendon and St Kilda can't reach an agreement.

 

[ScrappyDo]

We could be saying the same thing about Philipou or Owens if they have some bad luck with injury in the next few years.
The chances of replacing those two with better players are highly unlikely IMO.

Yes we could but that's reality. If you stand still too long the game moves past you and 2 years is a long time in footy.

 

[puppy_dog7]

I hope Sos and Gubby do the old “we’ll scratch your back if you scratch ours” only to completely backflip on Shiel and keep Gresh Band 1 compo.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Am I reading this right? You think we are giving pick 13 for Sheil? If so, the AFL said we cannot swap the compo pick back to the club that got the FA.

Also this has been debunked a million times. If there is a pick 13, it will be in the STKFC column, not Essendon's.

But Essendon get 12 then.

And 31.

Maybe even pay Sincs to play for Essendon.