Free Agency Brad Crouch [joins St Kilda as a RFA for pick 23]

[DangerSloane]

Now way is he worth more than a top 5 pick maybe somewhere around 5-10 by itself if you managed to get more than that you would be laughing all the way to the bank.

For example if Geelong traded for him next year the best you would get would be our pick 11 by itself nothing more than that.

He is good but he isn't top 10 mid in the comp hell he would be lucky to be top 20 mid.

And by the way i love Brad i even had him in my fantasy team last year.

It would be around the mark. Early to mid first round.

Regardless of that, hes worth more to us than that.

I know what you're trying to say, that we should make hay while the sun shines...but we have lost plenty in previous years and we've had 5 first round draft picks in the last 2 years (and at least anohter 2 in the next draft). I dont think we need to go over the top on cashing in for draft picks.

 

[Gunf]

It would be around the mark. Early to mid first round.

Regardless of that, hes worth more to us than that.

I know what you're trying to say, that we should make hay while the sun shines...but we have lost plenty in previous years and we've had 5 first round draft picks in the last 2 years (and at least anohter 2 in the next draft). I dont think we need to go over the top on cashing in for draft picks.

Draft picks aren't just for drafting though you could use the compo you get for him for trading other players in say Hately from GWS etc or to try and poach a top forward or mid.

The days of spending all your draft picks at the draft are done teams have so many more options now with FA etc.

If i was the Crows i would take whatever comp i get from Brad if he chooses to leave and try and pry some elite young home talent away from GWS/GCS whilst keeping an eye on FA yourselves for the next few years trying to land some 26ish yo players.

 

[DangerSloane]

Draft picks aren't just for drafting though you could use the compo you get for him for trading other players in say Hately from GWS etc or to try and poach a top forward or mid.

The days of spending all your draft picks at the draft are done teams have so many more options now with FA etc.

If i was the Crows i would take whatever comp i get from Brad if he chooses to leave and try and pry some elite young home talent away from GWS/GCS whilst keeping an eye on FA yourselves for the next few years trying to land some 26ish yo players.

Very true but Hately hasnt proven he'll ever be as good as Crouch, so even though he's 2 years down the track its still another risk.

I mean I know he doesnt want to leave and given how many have exited the last few years, I think its best we retain him, even if there is really good value available.

Hes not that old either. Hes only 25 remember.

 

[Yoda_]

That's right, Essendon have Shiel on $1.3 taking up all the cap space

This thread is about Brad Crouch. Nice deflection attempt though

 

[Yoda_]

True he my become worth more than 800k but right now he isn't, i leave that for Dusty/Danger/Fyfe/Cripps etc who are clearly worth it and if the rumours are true he wants out why over pay someone when they will jump at 750k more than likely.

To be fair, the new Collective Bargaining Agreement allows the top end talent to earn more. $500,000 is now $750,000. Just ask Brandon Ellis. Crouch is an infinitely better player than Brandon Ellis imho.

 

[Gunf]

To be fair, the new Collective Bargaining Agreement allows the top end talent to earn more. $500,000 is now $750,000. Just ask Brandon Ellis. Crouch is an infinitely better player than Brandon Ellis imho.

True but i would rather spend that on a player that is worth it not might become worth it

 

[Thetrader15]

If he is offered a contract that gets you a top 10 or even top 5 pick you will take it and run. if you don't i would be surprised to see the other club back out and you being stuck with a player who doesn't want to be there.
You won't get 2 firsts for a player that hasn't proved to be worth that unless they are late picks e.g 16 and 18 in which case you would prefer the single high pick like say 5-10.

The whole 'doesn't want to be there' thing is over rated IMO. As long as players are there, they put in and play their best (ok, Jenkins maybe an exception). Gibbs and Kelly both had great years after failing to change clubs. Papley will do the same this year.

The issue is that if it's a new contract, Brad doesn't have to sign it and would go to the draft.

Clubs need to get some of the power back and the only way to do that is for them to pick up players in the draft even if they didn't get nominated as the desired destination. E.g. Melbourne should have taken Martin this year in the PSD. It will quickly become a trend like holding contracted players to their contract if the trade value isn't sufficient.

Then, FA will really be FA, not this OOC FA we have now

 

[DangerSloane]

True but i would rather spend that on a player that is worth it not might become worth it

But your alternative is to get a pick and spend it on an unknown kid like Hately.
Who would come at a decent price tag with no runs on the board.

The bigger risk isn't paying Crouch 800k.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Now way is he worth more than a top 5 pick maybe somewhere around 5-10 by itself if you managed to get more than that you would be laughing all the way to the bank.

For example if Geelong traded for him next year the best you would get would be our pick 11 by itself nothing more than that.

He is good but he isn't top 10 mid in the comp hell he would be lucky to be top 20 mid.

And by the way i love Brad i even had him in my fantasy team last year.

Crouch is worth more than a top 5 draft pick to the Crows as he is our best mid age midfielder entering his prime.

We already have 2x 1st & 2nd rounders next year, so we don't need to be trading away our best mid for picks.

He enjoys Adelaide with his local girlfriend so confident he will re-sign early in 2020.

 

[Gunf]

Crouch is worth more than a top 5 draft pick to the Crows as he is our best mid age midfielder entering his prime.

We already have 2x 1st & 2nd rounders next year, so we don't need to be trading away our best mid for picks.

He enjoys Adelaide with his local girlfriend so confident he will re-sign early in 2020.

Don't get me wrong if Brad wants to stay and re-signs hell yes for you as you have kept a very good player

But if given a choice between Matching and forcing him to stay or getting a pick between 5-10 as FA compensation you bet the Crows will take the compo.

What they do with that after who knows maybe they trade for a young player with potential e.g Hatley or maybe they try for a more established player like Brisbane did with Neal.

And as a side note look what port did with 3x firsts last year would it really be a bad thing for the Crows to try and do a similar thing sometimes youth is exactly the spark a side needs to help it grow.

 

[Gunf]

But your alternative is to get a pick and spend it on an unknown kid like Hately.
Who would come at a decent price tag with no runs on the board.

The bigger risk isn't paying Crouch 800k.

A kid like Hatley is only one option you could use it to get a more established player or split the pick and grab multiple players with it it's not like if you have say pick 8 the only thing you can do is draft an unknown.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Don't get me wrong if Brad wants to stay and re-signs hell yes for you as you have kept a very good player

But if given a choice between Matching and forcing him to stay or getting a pick between 5-10 as FA compensation you bet the Crows will take the compo.

What they do with that after who knows maybe they trade for a young player with potential e.g Hatley or maybe they try for a more established player like Brisbane did with Neal.

And as a side note look what port did with 3x firsts last year would it really be a bad thing for the Crows to try and do a similar thing sometimes youth is exactly the spark a side needs to help it grow.

We already have more recent 1st round picks, including more than Port... So keeping our best midfielder is more important when we have another 2x 1st & 2nd rounders next year, along with 3 guaranteed decent players.

We have taken enough young talent early in the recent drafts & can add plenty more next year with a strong draft hand & keep Brouch:
2019 draft - McAsey (6), Schoenberg (24), Worrall (28)
2018 - Jones (9), McHenry (16), Hamill (30)
2017 - Fogarty (12)

 

[My name geoff]

We already have more recent 1st round picks, including more than Port... So keeping our best midfielder is more important when we have another 2x 1st & 2nd rounders next year, along with 3 guaranteed decent players.

We have taken enough young talent early in the recent drafts & can add plenty more next year with a strong draft hand & keep Brouch:
2019 draft - McAsey (6), Schoenberg (24), Worrall (28)
2018 - Jones (9), McHenry (16), Hamill (30)
2017 - Fogarty (12)

You think that's enough early talent?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

You think that's enough early talent?

Yes.

You don't trade away your best mid age talent. This is what Carlton did a few years back & ensured you won spoons.

 

[My name geoff]

Yes.

You don't trade away your best mid age talent. This is what Carlton did a few years back & ensured you won spoons.

I don't know why youre bringing Carlton into this. Just makes your point seem even worse.

You do realise that you have recruited the same amount of top 30 players as Carlton have in the past 3 years but 3 of Carlton’s were top 10 picks and at the same time Carlton were also trading in top 30 players from other clubs.

Not to mention Carlton already had Mckay, Weitering, Curnow, Cuningham, Fisher, SPS from the previous 2 drafts as top 30 picks.

Over that period Carlton brought in Martin, Kennedy, Lang, Marchbank, McGovern, Setterfield as former top 30 picks

Carlton has brought in the same amount of top 10 players as the crows have top 30 players over this period.

The crows have brought in 2 top 10 players since 2015.

Moral of the story, the crows haven’t brought in enough early talent.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I don't know why youre bringing Carlton into this. Just makes your point seem even worse.

You do realise that you have recruited the same amount of top 30 players as Carlton have in the past 3 years but 3 of Carlton’s were top 10 picks and at the same time Carlton were also trading in top 30 players from other clubs.

Not to mention Carlton already had Mckay, Weitering, Curnow, Cuningham, Fisher, SPS from the previous 2 drafts as top 30 picks.

Over that period Carlton brought in Martin, Kennedy, Lang, Marchbank, McGovern, Setterfield as former top 30 picks

Carlton has brought in the same amount of top 10 players as the crows have top 30 players over this period.

The crows have brought in 2 top 10 players since 2015.

My point is relevant as I posted many times before Carlton won their spoons that they were making a mistake trading out most of their quality mid age players.

IF you are going for a rebuild, you trade out your older players... which we have done with Betts, Jacobs & Jenkins... & lesser degree Keath & Greenwood.

You don't trade out your quality mid age players like Crouch, because they are needed to lead the way for the younger players coming through.

We have 3 free hits next draft period, along with 2x 1st & 2nd rounders, so there is no need to trade our gun for even more picks, because then our list becomes unbalanced.

 

[My name geoff]

My point is relevant as I posted many times before Carlton won their spoons that they were making a mistake trading out most of their quality mid age players.

IF you are going for a rebuild, you trade out your older players... which we have done with Betts, Jacobs & Jenkins... & lesser degree Keath & Greenwood.

You don't trade out your quality mid age players like Crouch, because they are needed to lead the way for the younger players coming through.

We have 3 free hits next draft period, along with 2x 1st & 2nd rounders, so there is no need to trade our gun for even more picks, because then our list becomes unbalanced.

Your list is already unbalanced. There is a dearth of top 10 draft picks. No young superstars coming through. Compare that to your competition, you're behind and having players like Brad Crouch isn't going to fix or even help the problem. Brad Crouch is only really helpful if you're in your window, which you aren't.

Using Carlton as an example again, players like Setterfield(21), Walsh(19), Weitering(22), Mckay(22), Curnow(22) will all be passing Brad Crouch in the coming year or so but you are advocating holding onto a 26 year old, injury prone, yet to be proven as a consistent contributor, level below the top midfielders Brad Crouch at the expense of the aforementioned level of talent players. What you're advocating is that your club shouldn't be competing with the likes of Carlton. Brad Crouch is the exact type of player you offload to try bring in a Sam Walsh. Brad Crouch cant compete with the Cripps, Martin, Dangerfield, Fyfe types but you're arguing that you shouldn't try get one of these types with Brad Crouch.

You're advocating that the Crows should aspire to be a mid table team, which makes perfect sense if your read my opinion on the Crows supporter base over the past few years. The crows aspire to be a middle table club. You are proving this yet again.

If you believe Carlton has made a mistake by trading out Henderson, Menzel, Bell, Yarran, to bring in Curnow, Mckay, Cuningham, Plowman etc then you clearly have no concept of how to rebuild a football team

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Your list is already unbalanced. There is a dearth of top 10 draft picks. No young superstars coming through. Compare that to your competition, you're behind and having players like Brad Crouch isn't going to fix or even help the problem. Brad Crouch is only really helpful if you're in your window, which you aren't.

Using Carlton as an example again, players like Setterfield(21), Walsh(19), Weitering(22), Mckay(22), Curnow(22) will all be passing Brad Crouch in the coming year or so but you are advocating holding onto a 26 year old, injury prone, yet to be proven as a consistent contributor, level below the top midfielders Brad Crouch at the expense of the aforementioned level of talent players. What you're advocating is that your club shouldn't be competing with the likes of Carlton. Brad Crouch is the exact type of player you offload to try bring in a Sam Walsh. Brad Crouch cant compete with the Cripps, Martin, Dangerfield, Fyfe types but you're arguing that you shouldn't try get one of these types with Brad Crouch.

You're advocating that the Crows should aspire to be a mid table team, which makes perfect sense if your read my opinion on the Crows supporter base over the past few years. The crows aspire to be a middle table club. You are proving this yet again.

You have a strange fascination with top 10 picks. You can pick up quality players outside the top 10 too. How many top 10 picks were in our premiership sides? I don't believe there were any!

To be fair you know little about the Crows younger players coming through to comment on in any meaningful manner.

Why trade out our best mid age player when we have 3 free hits & 2x 1st & 2nd rounders next year? It's list management madness!

 

[My name geoff]

You have a strange fascination with top 10 picks. You can pick up quality players outside the top 10 too. How many top 10 picks were in our premiership sides? I don't believe there were any!

To be fair you know little about the Crows younger players coming through to comment on in any meaningful manner.

Why trade out our best player when we have 3 free hits & 2x 1st & 2nd rounders next year? It's list management madness!

Great point, the 97, 98 premiership teams didn't have top 10 picks!

You don't get it. You're already behind, these aren't free hits like your crow-centric view is telling you. These are necessary picks to attempt to close the gap on your competition, which is currently huge.

Top 10 picks are generally what you need to build a gun team. Richmond had 6 top 10 picks in their premiership this year including former top 3 pick Dustin Martin who is the pick of the bunch and unsurprisingly so given his draft position. Crows don't have anyone even close to Martin's level of talent on their list and you're advocating holding onto Crouch at the expense of possibly acquiring a draft pick which gives you a decent chance at netting a player of that calibre.

Keep in mind that teams like Carlton already have multiple players of that top level calibre (Cripps, Walsh, Curnow) and are still bringing in more top 30 players than the crows are.

You are behind, and the gap is growing.

 

[TalkingFootyNow1223]

You have a strange fascination with top 10 picks. You can pick up quality players outside the top 10 too. How many top 10 picks were in our premiership sides? I don't believe there were any!

To be fair you know little about the Crows younger players coming through to comment on in any meaningful manner.

Why trade out our best mid age player when we have 3 free hits & 2x 1st & 2nd rounders next year? It's list management madness!

I wouldn't blow to hard on the draft trumpet, not to much to claim in a compromised draft. You could take 20 picks in and still walk away below average.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I wouldn't blow to hard on the draft trumpet, not to much to claim in a compromised draft. You could take 20 picks in and still walk away below average.

We have 1st dibs on 3 in this compromised draft, so we should be ok.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Great point, the 97, 98 premiership teams didn't have top 10 picks!

You don't get it. You're already behind, these aren't free hits like your crow-centric view is telling you. These are necessary picks to attempt to close the gap on your competition, which is currently huge.

Top 10 picks are generally what you need to build a gun team. Richmond had 6 top 10 picks in their premiership this year including former top 3 pick Dustin Martin who is the pick of the bunch and unsurprisingly so given his draft position. Crows don't have anyone even close to Martin's level of talent on their list and you're advocating holding onto Crouch at the expense of possibly acquiring a draft pick which gives you a decent chance at netting a player of that calibre.

Keep in mind that teams like Carlton already have multiple players of that top level calibre (Cripps, Walsh, Curnow) and are still bringing in more top 30 players than the crows are.

You are behind, and the gap is growing.

Lol, so it makes no sense to trade out our earliest pick & current b&f winner.

Shoot yourself in the foot more...

 

[My name geoff]

Lol, so it makes no sense to trade out our earliest pick & current b&f winner.

Shoot yourself in the foot more...

But you're not in your window. Crouch wont be playing in a premiership, do you understand that? As mentioned, he has little value as a former first rounder to you, he would if you were in your window as I mentioned. Just like former first rounder Lachie Henderson had no value to us but had value to Geelong.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

But you're not in your window. Crouch wont be playing in a premiership, do you understand that? As mentioned, he has little value as a former first rounder to you, he would if you were in your window as I mentioned. Just like former first rounder Lachie Henderson had no value to us but had value to Geelong.

Crouch is 25 years of age not 30!

It's madness to trade him when we don't need more picks as we already have one of the best draft hands & it's a compromised draft. We already have a younger list than AFL average

Look what happened to Carlton when you traded away too much mid age talent. You became a basket case, because you didn't have enough quality experience to support the kids. Fortunately the Crows list managers won't use this crazy strategy!

 

[My name geoff]

Crouch is 25 years of age not 30!

It's madness to trade him when we don't need more picks as we already have one of the best draft hands & it's a compromised draft. We already have a younger list than AFL average

Look what happened to Carlton when you traded away too much mid age talent. You became a basket case, because you didn't have enough quality experience to support the kids. Fortunately the Crows list managers won't use this crazy strategy!

Crouch is 26 next year, and he is not playing in a crows premiership. He is not a top shelf player and the crows need young top shelf players. Currently they have no young top shelf players bar O'Brien, Doedee and possibly Jones if he continues on his trajectory. Crouch is very expendable.

The only players who should be untouchable at the crows:

O'Brien
Jones
Doedee
McAsey
Fogarty
McHenry
Milera
Scholl

These are the only guys with the capacity to take you forward and be core players in your next tilt.


Carlton spent 3 years at the bottom developing talent and began their rise in the back half of 2019 at which point the Crows looked uncompetitive with the young Carlton lineup. Carlton overtook the Crows in the back half of 2019 and the gap between the two sides is only growing. Brad Crouch will not bring you into a position where you can compete with Carlton. Only young superstars will and at this point, the Crows have none.

All you are advocating is that the Crows try reach for a middle of the ladder position, which is 100% in line with my views on the crows as a club.