Carlton - How did they get to here?

[Rich01]

I was referencing the first and second rounders from the previous regime that should currently be playing AFL but aren’t due to incompetent drafting/trading. Giles, Viojo-Rainbow, Jaksch, Boekhurst, Watson, Everitt off the top of my head. McCarthy, Lucas, Bootsma, Temay in the years before him.

A massive hole of players that should be in their prime now through years of valuable picks wasted. But you’ve been told this a million times before.

That’s got nothing to do with what Geoff was referring to which is what SOS has traded in and how he did it.

But anyone who actually read the posts before blindly responding would have understood this.

 

[My name geoff]

I don't like cornflakes. never have, so your probably right on the crying bit.

Let's just put draft position aside?? it's the whole point of the thread!

But it doesn't suit your ridiculous narrative I guess!

Only you could take credit for moving on players your club drafted so poorly for in the first place.... talk about straw clutching,

Anyway only responded to your post in the first place because of how fantastically condescending some of your posts were and continue to be... lifes to short to bother wasting time on those quick to throw barbs but then divert their own short comings on others.

Seeya

For starters, I was talking specifically about the players Silvagni brought into the club, so your attempted straw man argument fails right of the bat.

Secondly, you tried to reduce silvagnis good Work by putting it down to relative draft position. I decided to cut right to the chase to show the players he brought in that had nothing to do with Carlton’s draft position, hence destroying your attempted narrative.

But nice of you to bail out when you realise that you were clutching at straws. Saves everyone time

FYI, if you want condescending, go
Read just about every crows fans comments to Carlton fans post 2017.
I’m now dancing on the crows grave.

 

[Old navy]

Carlton list build under sos
Sigficant In’s
Weitering
McKay
Curnow
Cuningham
JSOS
Plowman
Marchbank
Kennedy
SPS
Fisher
Setterfield
Williamson
Dow
LoB
TDK
Walsh
Stocker
McGovern
Newman

Significant Out’s
Gibbs
Yarren
Bell
Henderson
Thouy
Menzel

Crows significant out’s
Lever
Cameron
Lyons
McGovern

In’s
Gibbs
Fogarty
Jones
McHenry
Doedee

Ouch probably missed a few, but young Ried indeed

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

That’s got nothing to do with what Geoff was referring to which is what SOS has traded in and how he did it.

But anyone who actually read the posts before blindly responding would have understood this.

Original Adelaide poster was comparing the draft positions of each club, failing to realise the astute trading it took to get into those positions, without much value on the list in the first place. All apart of Silvagnis rebuild.

The way he’s built our assets and extracted maximum value in basically every deal, considering what he started with, is amazing. And some really good drafting which should hopefully bear fruits soon.

 

[Drewie11]

Carlton list build under sos
Sigficant In’s
Weitering
McKay
Curnow
Cuningham
JSOS
Plowman
Marchbank
Kennedy
SPS
Fisher
Setterfield
Williamson
Dow
LoB
TDK
Walsh
Stocker
McGovern
Newman

Significant Out’s
Gibbs
Yarren
Bell
Henderson
Thouy
Menzel

Crows significant out’s
Lever
Cameron
Lyons
McGovern

In’s
Gibbs
Fogarty
Jones
McHenry
Doedee

Ouch probably missed a few, but young Ried indeed

With all these significant “ins” why did Carlton finish 16th?

Has this TDK even played a game yet? Didn’t Kennedy spend 10 weeks in the VFL? Didn’t Dow spend some time in the seconds this year? Who is Cunningham and Williamson? Didn’t McGovern have to go to fat camp during the year?

Yep real significant ins, you win the internet today bud

 

[My name geoff]

Carlton list build under sos
Sigficant In’s
Weitering
McKay
Curnow
Cuningham
JSOS
Plowman
Marchbank
Kennedy
SPS
Fisher
Setterfield
Williamson
Dow
LoB
TDK
Walsh
Stocker
McGovern
Newman

Significant Out’s
Gibbs
Yarren
Bell
Henderson
Thouy
Menzel

Crows significant out’s
Lever
Cameron
Lyons
McGovern

In’s
Gibbs
Fogarty
Jones
McHenry
Doedee

Ouch probably missed a few, but young Ried indeed

‘Significant ins’ is a term used loosely in young Reid’s case

 

[My name geoff]

With all these significant “ins” why did Carlton finish 16th?

Has this TDK even played a game yet? Didn’t Kennedy spend 10 weeks in the VFL? Didn’t Dow spend some time in the seconds this year? Who is Cunningham and Williamson? Didn’t McGovern have to go to fat camp during the year?

Yep real significant ins, you win the internet today bud

It’s this weird concept you may or may not be aware of.. it’s called ‘youth’

 

[My name geoff]

Original Adelaide poster was comparing the draft positions of each club, failing to realise the astute trading it took to get into those positions, without much value on the list in the first place. All apart of Silvagnis rebuild.

The way he’s built our assets and extracted maximum value in basically every deal, considering what he started with, is amazing. And some really good drafting which should hopefully bear fruits soon.

That’s a bingo!

 

[Brasher]

For starters, I was talking specifically about the players Silvagni brought into the club, so your attempted straw man argument fails right of the bat.

Secondly, you tried to reduce silvagnis good Work by putting it down to relative draft position. I decided to cut right to the chase to show the players he brought in that had nothing to do with Carlton’s draft position, hence destroying your attempted narrative.

But nice of you to bail out when you realise that you were clutching at straws. Saves everyone time

FYI, if you want condescending, go
Read just about every crows fans comments to Carlton fans post 2017.
I’m now dancing on the crows grave.

Just on the bolded bit...did I? Think your jumping at shadow there champ. Pretty sure all I asked you to do (which you just ignore or discount because your argument falls over) was to put Carlton's drafting of recent years into perspective relative to Adelaide's given the extra draft capital your club had. Have you added more talent, of course you have, where have i argued you didn't?

As far as "I decided to cut right to the chase to show the players he brought in that had nothing to do with Carlton’s draft position" well now your just embarrassing yourself....nothing to do with the, what 4 top 6 draft picks in the last 4 years? According to you SOS would have got Sam Walsh with a 3rd rounder right?

But to have pop shots at others when the main reason for your relative successful drafting in recent times is the abysmal drafting performance your own club put in the previous four years is just weak. You strike me as the sort of guy that when when he wasn't very good would vote for not keeping score and handing out participation ribbons but when you won a game or two you'd be launching a fund me site to install a jumbo tron on your local footy ground.

As far as the "grave dancing" last time I looked, as trash as we have been been this year, your club still finished the season buried below us.

 

[My name geoff]

Just on the bolded bit...did I? Think your jumping at shadow there champ. Pretty sure all I asked you to do (which you just ignore or discount because your argument falls over) was to put Carlton's drafting of recent years into perspective relative to Adelaide's given the extra draft capital your club had. Have you added more talent, of course you have, where have i argued you didn't?

As far as "I decided to cut right to the chase to show the players he brought in that had nothing to do with Carlton’s draft position" well now your just embarrassing yourself....nothing to do with the, what 4 top 6 draft picks in the last 4 years? According to you SOS would have got Sam Walsh with a 3rd rounder right?

But to have pop shots at others when the main reason for your relative successful drafting in recent times is the abysmal drafting performance your own club put in the previous four years is just weak. You strike me as the sort of guy that when when he wasn't very good would vote for not keeping score and handing out participation ribbons but when you won a game or two you'd be launching a fund me site to install a jumbo tron on your local footy ground.

As far as the "grave dancing" last time I looked, as trash as we have been been this year, your club still finished the season buried below us.

I think you are confusing yourself..badly.

You are doing exactly what you are trying to say you are not doing lol. ‘I’m not reducing silvagnis rebuild, but it was built on 4 top 6 draft picks’ hahahah

You are also getting pretty emotional with the personal jab, but I already sensed your blood was boiling givin how much it burns to see these facts presented.

Walsh, Weitering, SPS, Dow. Excellent top draft picks, no one would ever deny that. But that’s just four players. The ‘Walsh for a third rounder’ comment just shows how weak your argument is. The point I’m making is that real work Silvagni done wasn’t nailing the four first round draft picks, it was here:

Harry Mckay
Charlie Curnow
Matt Kennedy
Lachie O’Brien
Tom DeKoning
Lachie Plowman
Andrew Philips
David Cuningham
Caleb Marchbank
Harrison Macreadie
Tom Williamson

All acquired through trades of players who haven’t fired a shot since leaving (Tuohy aside)

Pointing to the fact the oldest team in the Comp who is crashing and burning finished a few spots above one of the most exciting young teams in the comp as some sort of achievement pretty much says it all

 

[Brasher]

I think you are confusing yourself..badly.

You are doing exactly what you are trying to say you are not doing lol. ‘I’m not reducing silvagnis rebuild, but it was built on 4 top 6 draft picks’ hahahah

You are also getting pretty emotional with the personal jab, but I already sensed your blood was boiling givin how much it burns to see these facts presented.

Walsh, Weitering, SPS, Dow. Excellent top draft picks, no one would ever deny that. But that’s just four players. The ‘Walsh for a third rounder’ comment just shows how weak your argument is. The point I’m making is that real work Silvagni done wasn’t nailing the four first round draft picks, it was here:

Harry Mckay
Charlie Curnow
Matt Kennedy
Lachie O’Brien
Tom DeKoning
Lachie Plowman
Andrew Philips
David Cuningham
Caleb Marchbank
Harrison Macreadie
Tom Williamson

All acquired through trades of players who haven’t fired a shot since leaving (Tuohy aside)

I know who you are now..your the Carlton supporter who rang up SEN this morning complaining to Whately on SEN how the AFL robbed your club of Steve Cognilio.

It was the lack of comprehension skills and ability to avoid direct questions that gave it away.

 

[My name geoff]

I know who you are now..your the Carlton supporter who rang up SEN this morning complaining to Whately on SEN how the AFL robbed your club of Steve Cognilio.

It was the lack of comprehension skills and ability to avoid direct questions that gave it away.

You are getting further and further away from mounting an argument which counters my point.

Not suprised. The more obsfucation the better for the crows and their kool aid drinking supporters.

 

[TiAn_]

Not a bad trade for Carlton now, but gee there was some talent taken around Stocker.

I think you are confusing yourself..badly.

You are doing exactly what you are trying to say you are not doing lol. ‘I’m not reducing silvagnis rebuild, but it was built on 4 top 6 draft picks’ hahahah

You are also getting pretty emotional with the personal jab, but I already sensed your blood was boiling givin how much it burns to see these facts presented.

Walsh, Weitering, SPS, Dow. Excellent top draft picks, no one would ever deny that. But that’s just four players. The ‘Walsh for a third rounder’ comment just shows how weak your argument is. The point I’m making is that real work Silvagni done wasn’t nailing the four first round draft picks, it was here:

Harry Mckay
Charlie Curnow
Matt Kennedy
Lachie O’Brien
Tom DeKoning
Lachie Plowman
Andrew Philips
David Cuningham
Caleb Marchbank
Harrison Macreadie
Tom Williamson

All acquired through trades of players who haven’t fired a shot since leaving (Tuohy aside)

Pointing to the fact the oldest team in the Comp who is crashing and burning finished a few spots above one of the most exciting young teams in the comp as some sort of achievement pretty much says it all

Literally only McKay and Curnow are good players in that list. Is that your point?

 

[Brasher]

You are getting further and further away from mounting an argument which counters my point.

Not suprised. The more obsfucation the better for the crows and their kool aid drinking supporters.

Make a point and I'll happily address it. Meanwhile you have gotten the time period and number of off seasons wrong, discounted the high draft picks you have over the Crows as non consequential, continue to base your arguments with me on some attack I have made on SOS but haven't and can not show where I have and since you have demonstrated a real flair for obfuscation yourself, at least spell it correctly.

 

[My name geoff]

Make a point and I'll happily address it. Meanwhile you have gotten the time period and number of off seasons wrong, discounted the high draft picks you have over the Crows as non consequential, continue to base your arguments with me on some attack I have made on SOS but haven't and can not show where I have and since you have demonstrated a real flair for obfuscation yourself, at least spell it correctly.

Do you realise your whole argument is built on ignoring points Ive made, ignoring points you’ve made and instead focusing on red herrings, spelling, grammar and personal jabs?

I’ll spell it out for you...

You have asked me to present the relative draft positions of the crows and carlton in response to the list of players I presented which were brought in by SOS.

I accused you of reducing the unbelievable list of players to just having a better draft position (you seem to have unwittingly doubled down on this point in subsequent posts)

Rather than address your request directly, I listed all the players that relative draft position had no impact on, to show that dismissing the Silvagni rebuild is futile.

Pretty simple stuff would have thought. Maybe I’ve misjudged the simplicity of this straight forward argument as badly as the crows misjudged their premiership window.

 

[jezzajay]

With all these significant “ins” why did Carlton finish 16th?

Has this TDK even played a game yet? Didn’t Kennedy spend 10 weeks in the VFL? Didn’t Dow spend some time in the seconds this year? Who is Cunningham and Williamson? Didn’t McGovern have to go to fat camp during the year?

Yep real significant ins, you win the internet today bud

Compare the amount of games the Carlton ‘ins’ played in comparison to the Crows ‘ins’.
Now compare the games played of the Carlton ‘outs’ to the Crow ‘outs’.
Significant.

As for your dumb ‘why did you finish 16th’ retort...well, it doesn’t take much to work that out.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

You missed a fair few ins for the blues in that list as well, but they would all be bolded and not suit your argument.
And the picks swapped for some of these players - Matt Kennedy for Sam Taylor for example. And the Josh Dunkley pick.

We got Curnow with the Dunkley pick. More than happy for that trade.

 

[Rich01]

We got Curnow with the Dunkley pick. More than happy for that trade.

Yup. But the cost should be acknowledged.

 

[My name geoff]

Crows never should have traded for Gibbs - it's hard to know how ruined a player is when he's playing for a terrible team. You're better leaving them there because they can't be fixed.

The deal was fine - a first and a pick swap into a better draft. That pick 16 we gave Carlton has now become two early seconds, which is a great deal - 16 for 21 and 30.

By the end of this trade period:

........ Plowman ........
........ ............ .........
O’Brien Stocker Kennedy
Papley McGovern........
Betts DeKoning..........

Philips ......... ............


Give it another couple of offseasons and Silvagni will extract a whole team out of the crows.

 

[Crow till I die]

By the end of this trade period:

........ Plowman ........
........ ............ .........
O’Brien Stocker Kennedy
Papley McGovern........
Betts DeKoning..........

Philips ......... ............


Give it another couple of offseasons and Silvagni will extract a whole team out of the crows.

He might but that team you put up would get done by the south adelaide u15's

 

[FairKouta]

He might but that team you put up would get done by the south adelaide u15's

Yup just like we got done this year at the G against you guys.
Lels.

 

[Crow till I die]

Yup just like we got done this year at the G against you guys.
Lels.

But that team you list above doesn't have mckay, cripps, murphy, kreuzer, weitering etc etc etc...

 

[My name geoff]

He might but that team you put up would get done by the south adelaide u15's

Why don’t you put the team up that the crows have got out of their dealings with sos and we will see which one looks better

 

[Crow till I die]

Why don’t you put the team up that the crows have got out of their dealings with sos and we will see which one looks better

How can I do that as I don't know why we are picking with pick 3 and pick 21 that we have from Carlton. But since you are guessing you are getting Papley and Betts in this trade periood - neither are at all guaranteed, I will guess just like you did and add Lukosius or Grundy (pick 3 will be used as part of any trade) and Francis (pick 21) from trading..neither may at all happen but Papley and Betts are no lock to go to carlton either

 

[My name geoff]

How can I do that as I don't know why we are picking with pick 3 and pick 21 that we have from Carlton. But since you are guessing you are getting Papley and Betts in this trade periood - neither are at all guaranteed, I will guess just like you did and add Lukosius or Grundy (pick 3 will be used as part of any trade) and Francis (pick 21) from trading..neither may at all happen but Papley and Betts are no lock to go to carlton either

Go ahead and add them