Traded Pick swap: Gold Coast trade #27 to Geelong for a 2021 R3 pick (Melb)

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master bate said:
The rational part of me thinks the Giants stuffed up the Cameron trade giving 2 picks that might be no worse than 2 of the ones they got in.

The Q Anon part of me thinks S Hocking still works for the Cats. When Tom Hawkins plays a full season shoving guys in the back every ruck contest you wonder where the direction of that is coming from. Gold Coast got way too many list concessions, in order for the AFL to save face they've quietly asked the suns to redirect some of that spare draft capital to appease two of their favourite clubs - the Cats and Giants.

The Cats need all the help they can get because the Government keep kicking in for their new stadium, which equals more revenue, which equals happy league bosses.

I'm getting real Q Anon here but the whole league is designed so the executives at the top keep making their big pay cheques. You can question how blatant they are to achieve that but it's pretty clear this year that the aim of the game is to make sure gravy train never stops rolling along. Trimming list sizes and lowering draft pick pay, cutting down the footy departments caps, it's all designed so no one at the top suffers.
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You are getting a bit Q anon there. I'll believe Hocking works for the cats when we get 11 home games a year and a home final is at least being considered as possible.

In any case this thread is getting wildly off topic
 

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kreglze said:
The issue with waiting for draft night is teams know we can't use it so they lowball us with future 4th's etc. Or even worse, no one offers us anything and we get nothing for it and have to skip our pick. It would be a huge risk to take in to draft night knowing we can't use it.
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It's worth the risk. The thing is - you've obviously been massively lowballed by everyone already (as usually happens at the start of negotiations). You've swapped a 2nd round pick for a team that finished 14th for a 3rd round pick for a team that finished 9th - you've done a straight swap to downgrade your pick by more than a full round.

The worst part is that you are unlikely to use pick 50 odd next year either. Market value for pick 27 is obviously a lot higher than pick 50 (you've taken about 50% of market value). GC know that and so does everybody else. Even without leverage, a club would have offered more as they'd be getting a bargain regardless. When the talent available is known, at least a couple of the 17 teams would still have players they rate higher than pick 50 and would be willing to offer more.

Given you've swapped a pick for a much worse pick that you're unlikely to use anyway, I believe they should have 'taken the risk'.
 
Guardian Hawk said:
It's worth the risk. The thing is - you've obviously been massively lowballed by everyone already (as usually happens at the start of negotiations). You've swapped a 2nd round pick for a team that finished 14th for a 3rd round pick for a team that finished 9th - you've done a straight swap to downgrade your pick by more than a full round.

The worst part is that you are unlikely to use pick 50 odd next year either. Market value for pick 27 is obviously a lot higher than pick 50 (you've taken about 50% of market value). GC know that and so does everybody else. Even without leverage, a club would have offered more as they'd be getting a bargain regardless. When the talent available is known, at least a couple of the 17 teams would still have players they rate higher than pick 50 and would be willing to offer more.

Given you've swapped a pick for a much worse pick that you're unlikely to use anyway, I believe they should have 'taken the risk'.
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Pick 50 if it ends up there, knowing Melbourne (who the 3rd round pick is tied to) it could easily be a pick in the early 40's as well, won't know till next year I suppose and from what I can see with very little knowledge I have it doesn't seem next years draft will be as heavily compromised as this years with academy players. Also with people not having to take 3 players like other years, COVID meaning there is less known about players, list sizes being shrunk, different level of kids and depth of draft next year. I don't think you can just look at this trade as a binary pick 27 for Pick 45 (as an example).

I think the Suns are banking on us having to match bids again next year for Academy players, so that pick will be fine for matching bids for our players, there will be a lot of deadwood coming off the list next year as well that will need replacing.

Not that you are making this assumption but just a wider call.
We make a stand about Martin and take nothing, get criticized for getting nothing.
Trade a pick we can't use for something we can use next year, get criticized for taking something.
Seriously feels like we can't win.

I think our list is in a great position going forward and adding a pick 5, Davies and Jeffery to our list is a pretty good draft. Now were the concessions over the top, that is a complete other question.
 
kreglze said:
Pick 50 if it ends up there, knowing Melbourne (who the 3rd round pick is tied to) it could easily be a pick in the early 40's as well, won't know till next year I suppose and from what I can see with very little knowledge I have it doesn't seem next years draft will be as heavily compromised as this years with academy players. Also with people not having to take 3 players like other years, COVID meaning there is less known about players, list sizes being shrunk, different level of kids and depth of draft next year. I don't think you can just look at this trade as a binary pick 27 for Pick 45 (as an example).

I think the Suns are banking on us having to match bids again next year for Academy players, so that pick will be fine for matching bids for our players, there will be a lot of deadwood coming off the list next year as well that will need replacing.

Not that you are making this assumption but just a wider call.
We make a stand about Martin and take nothing, get criticized for getting nothing.
Trade a pick we can't use for something we can use next year, get criticized for taking something.
Seriously feels like we can't win.

I think our list is in a great position going forward and adding a pick 5, Davies and Jeffery to our list is a pretty good draft. Now were the concessions over the top, that is a complete other question.
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Even if you are taking a bit of a hit in value, it's better trading a selection you won't use to one that you will next year. Now that might be at the draft OR it might be in a trade next year. No reason that pick can't be used to sweeten a particular deal next year.
 
kreglze said:
Pick 50 if it ends up there, knowing Melbourne (who the 3rd round pick is tied to) it could easily be a pick in the early 40's as well, won't know till next year I suppose and from what I can see with very little knowledge I have it doesn't seem next years draft will be as heavily compromised as this years with academy players. Also with people not having to take 3 players like other years, COVID meaning there is less known about players, list sizes being shrunk, different level of kids and depth of draft next year. I don't think you can just look at this trade as a binary pick 27 for Pick 45 (as an example).

I think the Suns are banking on us having to match bids again next year for Academy players, so that pick will be fine for matching bids for our players, there will be a lot of deadwood coming off the list next year as well that will need replacing.

Not that you are making this assumption but just a wider call.
We make a stand about Martin and take nothing, get criticized for getting nothing.
Trade a pick we can't use for something we can use next year, get criticized for taking something.
Seriously feels like we can't win.

I think our list is in a great position going forward and adding a pick 5, Davies and Jeffery to our list is a pretty good draft. Now were the concessions over the top, that is a complete other question.
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I agree your list is taking shape and that your draft haul this year is again very good.
I don't think that means you need to essentially throw away picks though. You don't need to take a 'hard stand' (ala Martin) - you can accept less than market value. All you need to do is understand what the pick is worth and trust that you'll receive an offer that gets close. Look at the pick swaps with all other clubs. They are typically pretty fair and equate to similar enough points. When GC pick swap though, they keep accepting swaps where they have approximately halved the pick value - they don't need to do that. Someone will be happy to pay (for example) 20 -25% less that its worth (and therefore get a bargain) rather than accepting more than 50% less as you have done.
 
Guardian Hawk said:
I agree your list is taking shape and that your draft haul this year is again very good.
I don't think that means you need to essentially throw away picks though. You don't need to take a 'hard stand' (ala Martin) - you can accept less than market value. All you need to do is understand what the pick is worth and trust that you'll receive an offer that gets close. Look at the pick swaps with all other clubs. They are typically pretty fair and equate to similar enough points. When GC pick swap though, they keep accepting swaps where they have approximately halved the pick value - they don't need to do that. Someone will be happy to pay (for example) 20 -25% less that its worth (and therefore get a bargain) rather than accepting more than 50% less as you have done.
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I knew you're Hawthorn fan , but i think you already better than a lot of GCS list management staff with these statement.
 
Mr MysteryGuest said:
For those that think this trade isn’t that bad, compare It to the Adelaide-Melbourne pick swap.

Crows gave 33 and 50 for Dees future 2nd and future 4th.

seems off, that this type of one sided deal has happened 2 years in a row.
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The 2 years in a row thing is the bit that gets me, we took a loss last year with 11 for 27, this deal should of been more in our favour but instead it is again in Geelongs favour.

Our last list manager sent 4x 2nd rounders to the Eagles for pick 18 and then went to work for them the very next year. This stinks of the same BS
 

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Good move by Geelong. Just watch them land Henry Walsh with this pick and set up their 1st ruck for the next 10 years.

Hats off to their recruitment team. They obviously have more balls than the Eagles mob, I wanted them to trade in that pick.

Obviously time will tell but no risk no reward.
 
Scotland said:
Pick 27 for a pick that will be 37+ before any shenanigans is... interesting. With all due respect to Gold Coast it's likely that they just traded pick 27 for pick 40-50 given Melbourne are iffy to make the finals and the order is always being pushed back.
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Pick 27 will be pick 33.

So its pick 33 2020 for a 2021 pick 37-40 hopefully in a draft that has a season form line behind it and deeper.

For a pick the Suns didn't need. So that's pretty even and smart trading from Geelong.

Just a shame our guys didn't have the balls or foresight to do it. They are putting all our draft eggs for three years (2019, 2020 and 2021) in one basket.
 
Obeanie1 said:
Good move by Geelong. Just watch them land Henry Walsh with this pick and set up their 1st ruck for the next 10 years.

Hats off to their recruitment team. They obviously have more balls than the Eagles mob, I wanted them to trade in that pick.

Obviously time will tell but no risk no reward.
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We should use it on a ruck but I bet that we don't. They just don't rate trying to develop a ruckman. They have taken a basketballer as a Cat B so having two development rucks would be a massive shift in philosophy.
 
fuic08 said:
Surely holding it til draft night where there might be a player at 27 another club wants would be the way to go.
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But if it gets to pick 27, which we have no capacity to use - Geelong for instance could just lowball and say we'll give you our 2021 4th rounder. We would have to take it - better than passing on the pick.
 
Don't forget that GC also traded their 3rd round picks in pick 59 for Horlin-Smith and 58 for Zac Smith with Geelong in 2018 and 2019 respectively.

Both were out of contract and delist material and yet GC decided to trade the kind of draft pick that nets a club Dan Butler during the trade period.

Horlin-Smith was delisted and chose to "retire" 2 years later, and Zac Smith has been delisted after only one season and been moved to the rookie list.

They have been in cahoots with Geelong for a while.
 
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Bucking Bronco said:
Don't forget that GC also traded their 3rd round picks in pick 59 for Horlin-Smith and 58 for Zac Smith with Geelong in 2018 and 2019 respectively.

Both were out of contract and delist material and yet GC decided to trade the kind of draft pick that nets a club Dan Butler during the trade period.

Horlin-Smith was delisted and chose to "retire" 2 years later, and Zac Smith has been delisted after only one season and been moved to the rookie list.

They have been in cahoots with Geelong for a while.
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That's the reason i said AFL and bribery committee need to check on Craig Cameron dealing. I rather use pick 27 and 37 to get multiple pick for Jefferey and AFL only allow one prelisted for Alex Davies . .
 
Haha this is *en dodgy.

I thought there was a guy who signed off on trades to prevent iffy s**t like this?

You cant tell me there wasnt a club out there willing to give something better than a future 3rd for that pick.

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk
 
Mr Meeseeks said:
Haha this is fu**en dodgy.

I thought there was a guy who signed off on trades to prevent iffy sh*t like this?

You cant tell me there wasnt a club out there willing to give something better than a future 3rd for that pick.

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk
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On the take Craig Cameron . GHS , Murdoch, Smith and now this .
 
Peel67skin said:
On the take Craig Cameron . GHS , Murdoch, Smith and now this .
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What's on the take about that? 3 experienced players for two picks in 50s at a time when you desperately seeking experienced players? Murdoch was DFA. Smith you could have taken UFA but traded to prevent your Tom Lynch compo being downgraded. GHS was career limited by his leg speed at senior level but if you want someone who is going to put in for the team and drive standards around the club then he's well worth it the I think pick 59.
 
Thewlis Dish said:
I reckon most people thought you got the better of that trade at the time because West Coast were tipped to really struggle in 2018.
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That was the perception of some, the stinger however is that the deal was only done to get another 1st rounder to give to freo instead of pick 2 for Weller. Clayton didn’t bother to ask Freo if they would accept the pick, so we ended up with a pick we didn’t need and paid a massive price. The list manager then goes to work for the very club he gifted all those picks to
 
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