Autopsy Cats lose to Freo by 29 in Perth.

[CatToTheFuture]

Freo had more players sub 100 games than Geelong I believe???

I really should re-word that post.

The "list" there was a list of either sides top 4 mids. Ours was 2 guys over 50 games who started out as rookies and only moved to full time midfielder in the last 2 years, the other two were late first rounders with less than 50 games.

It was a specific comparison of the part of the ground that lost the game for us

 

[Grimoz]

How far away is Guthrie from returning, havent heard much about him

 

[MacStradbroke]

As a Freo fan sitting in the crowd:

Your midfield aside from Atkins was mediocre. That bloke is a beast. Blicavs caused some headaches but he’s not a full time onballer. He should be a cameo not a regular centre square clearance mid. I’m guessing the fact your best onballers are injured largely contributed to Blicavs onball for so long.

As good as Esava looked taking intercept marks, his defensive running is very low. He looked good taking intercepts when your zone was in place, but when we switched play or cut diagonally across the ground he doesn’t move to the drop zone. He looked unfit and was blowing a gale end of the first quarter. I was surprised he was 88% TOG, it felt like less watching the game. As a comparison Alex Pearce was 100% TOG.

Zac Tuohy very much still has it. Our small / medium forwards put a huge amount of time into him (I don’t mean physically off the ball), I mean they chased and corralled him all the time. They were very focused shutting him down and Tom Stewart. You could see from the grandstands we focused on quelling those 2 a lot which stagnated your rebound.

Jack Henry is a star. If he had more ball directed to him forward of centre he would kick a lot of goals. When Hawkins retires he might be a better bet as key forward than Esava.

Jeremy Cameron had an almost day. 2 posters, 4 shots at goal for 4 points was very lucky for us.

Congrats on the flag last year, hopefully we can pinch our first in the window you rebuild 2024-26.

It’s amazing how subjective this game is. I thought Atkins was very ordinary. Recent weeks shows us that he needs to be 5th or 6th banana running through the midfield, not the 2nd or 3rd. That’s no knock, he just isn’t that level of player.

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

Won’t win 4 finals in a row! Have a look at the ladder … we are equal with essendon, Freo & Adelaide… that’s our grouping at the moment… does anyone think those 3 will win the cup? Top 4? Four finals in a row? Of course not! We have potential but we are not that good and only Danger is our star out.. the others are either past it or fringe not best 22 players…

I don’t think we can win 4 finals either - there’s no way imo - even if they were all in Melbourne.
Reminds me a little of 2012. Finished 6th and played Freo at the G.
Lots were saying we will win 4 finals that year as well.
Didn’t even make it past the first week.

Different team yes, but it’s a complete anomaly for a team to win it from outside the 4. It literally never happens - with 2016 being the freak occurrence.

History says 5-8 are just making up the numbers.

 

[Phipppppa]

Top 4 hard to achieve from here

 

[Mr Meow]

I don’t think we can win 4 finals either - there’s no way imo - even if they were all in Melbourne.
Reminds me a little of 2012. Finished 6th and played Freo at the G.
Lots were saying we will win 4 finals that year as well.
Didn’t even make it past the first week.

Different team yes, but it’s a complete anomaly for a team to win it from outside the 4. It literally never happens - with 2016 being the freak occurrence.

History says 5-8 are just making up the numbers.

Misuse of literal in that way is literally the biggest oxymoron you can make.

3 teams have made the GF since the bye was introduced in 2016. So almost half the time there is 1 team who made it to the big dance from that position. Only detail that mattered was '21 Bulldogs weren't as good as Melbourne and '19 GWS weren't as good as Richmond. Who knows - full strength defending reigning premier Geelong may be a tiny bit better than Collingwood, Melbourne, Brisbane, Port and co. We have no idea as of now.

Then a bunch make it playing four consecutive finals the classic way - top 4 finish, lose week 1 and then win the next 2.

 

[Mr Meow]

Just read the thread. Apparently it is head in the sand stuff to point out our injury toll is impacting the team lol. Did I read that correctly because that's a silly opinion. Injured players = not our best team = not our best footy. It seems pretty logical to me. Personally I want to thank people keeping cool heads and pointing out we're missing a lot of players. The negative nancy stuff over an injured team is a bit much. We've not even had the bye yet.

The only other team with our level of injuries is West Coast and they are second last on the ladder. The fact we have this amount of injured players and are still sitting pretty in 7th is damn impressive imo. We could have snatched several of those games despite our injuries too.

Fully fit we can beat anyone, anywhere. I don't care where we finish. Just make the eight. It'll be a nightmare for other teams having Geelong finish in 5th to 8th because we're spiritually a Top Four team. Whoever lost the QF would have to play us in the semi, which means they're essentially playing two Top Four teams in a row. You can't tell me teams like Brisbane wouldn't be dreading something like that, even if we would play them at the Gabba. We've beaten them there before in a big final. It cracks me up honestly.

Personally I am just going to sit back and enjoy the ride. See what mayhem we can cause.

We do ourselves a disservice when we are so lazy with our comprehension, but maybe you were genuinely confused.

I believe I said it was head in the sand stuff to ONLY put mis performance of the 15 premiership stars we had out there down to missing the 7 others. That it will massively help to get some players back (Dangerfield primarily), but that around 8 are flat and lethargic and it is not definite that things will instantly revert to '22 form for them. For instance our near full strength defence when available is still not its old self and only part of this can be put down to midfield pressure or lack thereof.

Having a nuanced view like this with a plethora of factors instead of one very binary, black and white view, seems to annoy some supporters. It's hardly throwing people under the bus - not everybody can stay in form all season, look at Stewart and Cameron - but there are things to work on even within the group we have right now. Scott said as much, and you know that what he reveals to the media is only 1/10 what is actually going on under the hood. Because he also has a duty not to overreact and put unnecessary heat on senior stars he believes he can get back on track.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

Well that was fun
Last years V8 is running on 5 cylinders at the moment.
Last 2 weeks have felt the same - decimated by injuries , young guys thrown into major roles and a disturbing number of experienced guys well down on form.

I over indulged in Corporate hospitality but managed to observe a few things.
Atkins - busted his arse all day against extreme odds , great effort
Bruhn - great first quarter but faded a bit after that , TOG suggests we are managing him but at 20 years old would have him in the second rotation when all are back.
Knevitt- ran to great spots but wasn’t used but still kept going. Needs some angry pills though - play him on Atkins at training.
Parfitt - serviceable

We were monstered in the ruck at times and that gave Freo clear ball ( they spread with handball well and always had outside options) which did a lot of damage.
Defense was well down and very disorganised at times , not a lot of talk going on.
Sav was great at times but had to do a lot including running after their smalls post a marking contest - tried hard all day.
Our ball movement was rushed and pressured all day , zero run from behind and we pretty much ignored the corridor.
The few times we had speed and flow we scored - just didn’t produce that enough

 

[Vdubs]

Lose 3
Win 5
Lose 2
forms all over the place...not like us at all.

It is though, 2023, it was never going to 22 form and luck again.

 

[Vdubs]

What's our next 4 games? GWS, Dogs, Port and Dees? We're going to find out just where we sit after that block.

1-3 at best, let's be realistic. Too old, injured, unsettled and young all at once.

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

The competition is pretty tight in the top 10 teams, so if any side is just a bit off, they can be beaten. I think the Cats still have a shot at making the top 8 by the end of the season (not the top 4) if they get some midfield stars back into the team. We had a bloody fantastic year last year, so we still have that even if 2023 doesn't work out the way we hoped.

 

[Chinacats]

Top 4 hard to achieve from here

Indeed! Cats haven’t lost more than 6 games in the H & A and made top 4 or won a final for that matter the last 3 times we lost more than 6. 2012, 2015 & 2018. 5 losses already…. Looking bog average to me unfortunately!

 

[UnitedWarrior93]

1-3 at best, let's be realistic. Too old, injured, unsettled and young all at once.

Probably. The stars all aligned perfectly for us last season, and about 90% of the time the reigning premier doesn't go back-to-back. The only teams to do so since 2000 is the Brisbane Lions, Hawks and Tigers, it's extremely hard to do.

I'm not completely giving up on the b2b dream but there's enough evidence so far to suggest it's going to be too difficult. Our best is good enough, we may not see it though, and not making top 4 makes it even harder.

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

Misuse of literal in that way is literally the biggest oxymoron you can make.

3 teams have made the GF since the bye was introduced in 2016. So almost half the time there is 1 team who made it to the big dance from that position. Only detail that mattered was '21 Bulldogs weren't as good as Melbourne and '19 GWS weren't as good as Richmond. Who knows - full strength defending reigning premier Geelong may be a tiny bit better than Collingwood, Melbourne, Brisbane, Port and co. We have no idea as of now.

Then a bunch make it playing four consecutive finals the classic way - top 4 finish, lose week 1 and then win the next 2.

Jesus, whose cares. You understood what I meant. No need to be a dickhead.

 

[STPer18]

Midfield is undermanned which understandably doesn't help the defenders, but a lot of them looked ordinary again. Kolo even brought out his great mark into near disastrous sideways kick turnover combo at a crucial stage too.

 

[Mr Meow]

Jesus, whose cares. You understood what I meant. No need to be a dickhead.

I really didn't understand, given almost 50% of the time since the pre finals bye was introduced a team outside the top 4 makes the GF. If you make the GF it's a new game and you're a chance if you're good enough, stop being lazy and ignoring the 2 grand finalists that didn't win on the last day. You'll notice I don't have to resort to inflammatory language to make a perfectly reasonable point.

 

[And_ROOS]

The fact we had no one get over 20 disposals tells you where its at especially our midfield where a CGuth of last season, or a Danger has a comfortable 28+.

Hope we really go hard at bringing in Parish and another 24 or 25 year old midfielder.

 

[Mr Meow]

Amazing how emotional and over the top a subset of supporters get after a loss or god forbid, a couple of losses. We're missing players, the ones out there are largely in a mini form rut and we should bounce back but there's no guarantee. Surely all of this can be discussed without personal attacks, baiting, "I told you so"s and the rest. We have no idea how things will pan out from here and that's part of the fun. Let's see if we can be one of the defending premiers who go through a difficult phase and then sharpen up at the business end. If it's too late, so be it. But there are plenty of clouds to yell at outside if you can't cope with a rough patch by the GFC.

 

[CHAWKTS]

Amazing how emotional and over the top a subset of supporters get after a loss or god forbid, a couple of losses. We're missing players, the ones out there are largely in a mini form rut and we should bounce back but there's no guarantee. Surely all of this can be discussed without personal attacks, baiting, "I told you so"s and the rest. We have no idea how things will pan out from here and that's part of the fun. Let's see if we can be one of the defending premiers who go through a difficult phase and then sharpen up at the business end. If it's too late, so be it. But there are plenty of clouds to yell at outside if you can't cope with a rough patch by the GFC.

Agree.

And remember at the start of last year we were about to fall off that cliff and instead ended up climbing the mountain! The cliff could well be still on the horizon but it won’t hurt as much if it comes given what we did last year - and it still may not come in 2023…

We could not have predicted winning 16 in a row after losing to the saints last year. Given one extra game this year we are in a position where we have 16 games to go (if we make GF) so lets just see how the next month goes with players coming back and we will have a much better feel for how the season turns out.

At some stage we probably will have a year or two as an average team given we are “hollow” in that middle age group - but I can already see us building a team for the latter part of this decade when our under 22’s will be peaking…If we can pinch another flag with the older group that will be a bonus

 

[bombersboy]

I don’t like saying this as he has been a favourite of mine for a long time, and he has had a sensational year. But Esava just brings a level of unpredictability to the backline which is creating the feeling of chaos.

The reason why SDK is a future champion is the level of calm he brings. We miss that. He just does the right thing (nearly) every time.

We need 2022 SDK and an in form and conditioned Henry back there to stop the leakage.

Esava may well play better around these cool heads too.

I think Esava is virtually a lock as best 22. Yes he got caught out a couple of times last night but I thought less than Tom Stewart. The backline has shown they cannot defend unless they have a midfield dominating that means 1. the ball is not going in there much and 2. when it is it is under pressure. I lost count of the number of times the ball went from our forward line to Freo's in a chain of uncontested possessions. It was so frustrating to watch.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Holmes and Blitz are the ones I thought look tired. We have asked a lot of Blitz for a long time.

I do agree in the sense that i think cegs cant cover as much ground as stanley so blitz is having to cover more ground than he normally would..that said he has a better tank than most but he could use a rest.

The main ones i was thinking of are tuohy who we know has been carrying back issues and looks injured to me. Duncan (who is now injured), off a limited pre season will need management (as will hawkins potentially for same reason). Ceglar will need a rest as soon as we have another fit ruck. Bews doesnt look right to me and it wouldnt surprise me if hes playing injured (again we cant do much until bowes is back). Smith is playing well but at his age im sure we would have rested him by now if we had less injuries.

So these are the guys i expect to see 'managed' once we have a shorter injury list.

 

[Cataholic]

Just read the thread. Apparently it is head in the sand stuff to point out our injury toll is impacting the team lol. Did I read that correctly because that's a silly opinion. Injured players = not our best team = not our best footy. It seems pretty logical to me. Personally I want to thank people keeping cool heads and pointing out we're missing a lot of players. The negative nancy stuff over an injured team is a bit much. We've not even had the bye yet.

The only other team with our level of injuries is West Coast and they are second last on the ladder. The fact we have this amount of injured players and are still sitting pretty in 7th is damn impressive imo. We could have snatched several of those games despite our injuries too.

Fully fit we can beat anyone, anywhere. I don't care where we finish. Just make the eight. It'll be a nightmare for other teams having Geelong finish in 5th to 8th because we're spiritually a Top Four team. Whoever lost the QF would have to play us in the semi, which means they're essentially playing two Top Four teams in a row. You can't tell me teams like Brisbane wouldn't be dreading something like that, even if we would play them at the Gabba. We've beaten them there before in a big final. It cracks me up honestly.

Personally I am just going to sit back and enjoy the ride. See what mayhem we can cause.

There's no doubt the injury toll has destabilized the team, and its been exacerbated by poor form and the inexperience of youth.

The nett effect has been too much to overcome, and hence the losses.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I think Esava is virtually a lock as best 22. Yes he got caught out a couple of times last night but I thought less than Tom Stewart. The backline has shown they cannot defend unless they have a midfield dominating that means 1. the ball is not going in there much and 2. when it is it is under pressure. I lost count of the number of times the ball went from our forward line to Freo's in a chain of uncontested possessions. It was so frustrating to watch.

Almost no backline in the league can defend that ball movement though it allows short leads to be isolated and too much space for defenders to cut it off. You need better pressure up the field to prevent that.

 

[Turbocat]

A few different takes in here and probably most have elements of truth

but for me reading Lana's insightful post I couldn't help but think about the term..."pain"?

Some pain? Sure..but nothing we have not felt before. Compared to some clubs we have had our share of disappointment... the group that support the P&W have been the luckiest supporters on earth... but if we compare ourself to many other groups we too have basked in the sun well beyond our fair share .

Four flags in the last 20 years? Eat your heart out StKilda.

Imo, if we have to endure sometime out of contention, perhaps even take some bruises and cuts ... id say thats just part of the price you pay. Struth ask any of those Stk supporters and they gladly embrace what ever pain comes our way for the period we have had.

The thing is Im not yet sold on that its all earth wind and fire and that the four horsemen are riding into KP. Im not sold of paying an everlasting enduring price ..even with the introduction of Tas.

To me in this era its not a fait accompli that we will now fall into muck and mire of cellar dweller oblivion and return our historical malaise of being a club of the median.

The underlying model of Geelong is strong and will continue to be strong. Id say I look at West Coast ..who is the wealthiest club in the afl, have a stadium full of ardent supporters .. and they look like they may be in for some pain. Im sure some would say they are due. Four flags in their time in the afl but really.. just how much pain? Any pain that comes there way will be balanced by the knowledge that its not going to last long, that the club is strong and it will rebound... and so it is for Geelong imo.

I think the swing towards youth in our recruitment last year was an acknowledgement that the time was right to begin to absorb some unpleasantness, show forbearance etc.

We are lucky in that we are club where high percentage of players come from our area..and high percentage of these will always be open to returning to Geelong...just like West Coast. The model on the draft only ...that many have tried to sail is anachronistic and redudant yet they still try it because they have no choice. I think in this era.. we have something we can utilise offers than many don't. The issue is players the level of Dangerfield etc are rare.. and having a player like that wanting to come here is rare too.

So short term we may just have to buy a bag of concrete and harden up. Its a socialistic comp ...... but as napoleon the pig said.. All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others ... we will be Ok . Just hold hard and have faith.

 

[Cataholic]

I don’t think we can win 4 finals either - there’s no way imo - even if they were all in Melbourne.
Reminds me a little of 2012. Finished 6th and played Freo at the G.
Lots were saying we will win 4 finals that year as well.
Didn’t even make it past the first week.

Different team yes, but it’s a complete anomaly for a team to win it from outside the 4. It literally never happens - with 2016 being the freak occurrence.

History says 5-8 are just making up the numbers.

Yeah, statistically speaking, a team coming into a GF from outside the Top 4 is unlikely to win, but our hope here - should we miss Top 4 - is that it's not impossible.....a la 2016.