Is Shaun Burgoyne the best clutch player of all time?

[Slysh]

As opposed to the multitude of other times he did something fantastic in the dying moments of a big game.

Or, say, being voted best on ground in a grand final for example.

Very different things.

Being best on ground does not mean you were 'clutch'. For example i see Hodge as being one of the best big game players in my time of watching football (I can't comment on greats of the past due to not getting the chance to see them) but i think Burgers is more clutch. Being clutch is standing up in a moment where the team needs you to and delivering on a regular basis.

 

[Schauermann]

reaks the record for most goals in a GF when he kicks 8 in 1985

Gordon Coventry kicked 9 in the 1928 GF. But perhaps 8 was the record in a losing side before Ablett tied Coventry's 9...

 

[PhatBoy]

Very different things.

Being best on ground does not mean you were 'clutch'. For example i see Hodge as being one of the best big game players in my time of watching football (I can't comment on greats of the past due to not getting the chance to see them) but i think Burgers is more clutch. Being clutch is standing up in a moment where the team needs you to and delivering on a regular basis.

Either way, making or missing a smother which is one of the flukiest acts in the sport is not exactly the same as making it missing a shot or a pass is it.

 

[PhatBoy]

Being best on ground isn't a clutch moment. Smothering the Burgoyne kick would have been.

That’s like saying someone not holing out from a bunker on the last hole of a major is not being clutch. Ie. a smother is often a pure fluke because you can do everything right and still not affect it. Given that it is your boy Burgoyne himself who kicked it, wouldn’t that act itself be a better example of clutch, than Bartel missing a smother being an example of non-clutch?

Not sure about other people but when I watch the toe-poke replay I don’t think to myself ‘gee that was an example of someone being poor under pressure when the St Kilda defender missed that smother off Chapman.’ I just think ‘gee that was good execution under pressure from Chapman.’

 

[maddog37]

Enright was pretty handy when the chips were down too.

 

[conrad_437]

Burgoyne is a worthy nomination. Bartel was also excellent in this area.

I am shocked not to have seen one nomination from Bulldogs supporters for the Bont.

I did nominate him, but it's probably because he is so young that a fair few people would laugh at the fact that he is called 'clutch', as opposed to someone like Burgoyne or Bartel.

 

[PhatBoy]

I did nominate him, but it's probably because he is so young that a fair few people would laugh at the fact that he is called 'clutch', as opposed to someone like Burgoyne or Bartel.

I can’t say I’ve watched a lot of bulldogs matches outside their finals and when they play us. Maybe it’s more because his efforts have only been seen over a relatively small sample size.

Over the last decade naturally the Hawks, Cats and Swans are going to have the majority of players who are regularly proven in this area.

 

[conrad_437]

I can’t say I’ve watched a lot of bulldogs matches outside their finals and when they play us. Maybe it’s more because his efforts have only been seen over a relatively small sample size.

Over the last decade naturally the Hawks, Cats and Swans are going to have the majority of players who are regularly proven in this area.

I think that's fair to say. However in his 87 games, he has had more clutch moments than most players have in 200+ games, and by the end of his career I believe he will be extremely well known as a clutch player and perhaps rated higher than some of the players mentioned in this regard.

 

[Doashuey]

Being best on ground isn't a clutch moment. Smothering the Burgoyne kick would have been.

By that metric, Daniel Chick must be the best of all time.

Best 9 finger smother... EVER!

 

[Sydswans666]

Leo Barry

 

[Bestevaer]

Hands down the greatest ever when the game is on the line



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

James "Big Game" Worthy

 

[TBoyleSuperstar]

Leo Barry

The perfect example of clutch (both literally and figuratively).

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Each of Bartel's goals in the '11 gf were difficult and clutch.

Summed up each situation and took the responsibility.

 

[Mofra]

Burgoyne is the best of his era, without doubt. Hard to say best of all time without much footage of earlier seasons - would McLeod be the 90s version? 2 x Normies but I seem to remember a couple of clever late plays in the H&A season that dragged the Crows to narrow wins.

 

[Sydswans666]

Burgoyne is the best of his era, without doubt. Hard to say best of all time without much footage of earlier seasons - would McLeod be the 90s version? 2 x Normies but I seem to remember a couple of clever late plays in the H&A season that dragged the Crows to narrow wins.

Darren Jarman got them there and also dominated the gfs

 

[darklake]

Dew.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

I rate that Geelong 07-11 era as the best I've ever seen. The H&A vs St Kilda in 2009 at Etihad is hands down the ultimate evolution of AFL. It peaked on that day.

Stewie Dew tore away one premiership from that great Geelong side. Whoever won the 13 prelim was always going to go on and win the big one. Geelong had never lost a finals game when leading by 20 points going into the last quarter.

It was all set up for geelong to win 4 during a majestic dynasty for the club.

Enter S.Burgoyne, the destroyer of worlds.

Geelong were cooked, should never have even been on front in that game. Miracle they even got close.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Hodge, Burgoyne, Voss, Hird, Chapman. Had some good ones this century.

JPK is certainly up there with the best. Can't remember him playing too many poor finals.

SF 2017 should be fresh in yr mind.

 

[Monkey King]

Wayne Harmes bigtime clutch player.

 

[Monkey King]

No.

Oh hell yes. Judd was a great clutch player. Always found that extra leg at the right time. Elimination final against Richmond is a terrific example of him doing this. Did against the Swans a couple of years earlier as well, but because the rest of the Carlton side couldn’t get it together and they didn’t win, he’ll get no recognition for it.

Other great clutch players, Bartel, Voss, Carey. Often did something at just the time their team needed it.

 

[SterlingArcher]

Very different things.

Being best on ground does not mean you were 'clutch'. For example i see Hodge as being one of the best big game players in my time of watching football (I can't comment on greats of the past due to not getting the chance to see them) but i think Burgers is more clutch. Being clutch is standing up in a moment where the team needs you to and delivering on a regular basis.

I also see clutch as being huge when the game is on the line no matter how you performed earlier. Can you find the will to win even when things aren't going your way, can you make it your moment etc.

Obviously big game players and clutch goes hand-in-hand a lot, but I don't think they necessarily have too.

 

[Seeds]

Was chatting to some mates, all neutrals except MightyHawks and they all said Burgoyne.

Got me thinking and I can’t actually think of a player who consistently performs when it matters more than him.

I’m sure someone will come up with some other names, these are my favourite type of players.

remembers Burgoynes 2007 GF performance when he got towelled up in the game that mattered most. I definately came away from that game thinking he was the games greatest clutch player.

 

[liam123]

Harmichael k*nt

 

[TBoyleSuperstar]

remembers Burgoynes 2007 GF performance when he got towelled up in the game that mattered most. I definately came away from that game thinking he was the games greatest clutch player.

Considering the result, not sure a lot can be put down to Burgoyne not stepping up, the whole team was pretty much smashed from the start against a clinical Geelong side. 19 possies, 7 tackles and 2 goals. Hardly their worst too.

I think the reason most Hawks supporters think so highly of Burgoyne is that when things were going poorly for us over the 7yrs or so, when we needed someone to lift us, Burgoyne was very much front and centre. When we were struggling in the middle, we'd throw him in there (actually he'd go in himself more often than not) and he'd get clearances we needed, when we needed goals, he'd always seem to bob up with important goals.

He rarely lets us down, rarely beaten. He's not the big possession getter that he used to be, but rarely wastes them and gets them when needed.

 

[TBoyleSuperstar]

Each of Bartel's goals in the '11 gf were difficult and clutch.

Summed up each situation and took the responsibility.

Agree. He did this a lot Bartel. When you guys needed someone to step up, invariably he made an impact. not so much Clutch, but his job on Hayes after qtr time in the 2009 GF probably won it for you.

Also, he always seemed to be in the right place at the right time in the close games against us over the years.