Traded Jack Higgins [Traded to St Kilda with #21 and a Future 4th Round Pick for #17 and a Future 2nd Round Pick]

[theyellowsash]

Bruce wasn't a "rubbish player at the end of his career" when we traded him though.

Last year he had two games where he took 7 contested marks (43 in total for the year, which is excellent) and in his last 10 games for us he kicked 23 goals, which is 50 goals for a full season pace. And of course he's already had a 50 goal season, so he was right back to his very best and it looked like working with Dermie last year on his craft had done wonders for him. Even got 2 Brownlow votes in two of those last 10 games (which are hard to come by for "non-mids").

Hence the Bulldogs signing him for 4 years, on what was rumoured to be as much as $700K PA, and hence it being described in various articles as an "absolute bargain" trade for WB.

Just because he was abysmal this year doesn't mean he was at the time he was traded.

Obviously they wouldn't have signed him for 4 years on excellent coin if the way he played this year was the norm!

bruce averages 1.4 goals a game playing as the permanent #1 key forward target. vickery averaged that while also playing in the ruck. just because you had noone else and the dogs were desperate, doesnt make him not a rubbish footballer. if any of the big men available this year had been available last year, you wouldnt have got a packet of chips for bruce.

 

[stfan]

Well we may only have one slot available for a draft selection.

Our picks

21, 64, 67, 74, 93

But surely with the huge number of academy picks, plus father sons, this year picks 64,67 should with the likely bundling drop much earlier to the 40's.

The number of contracted players we have may make it difficult.

Picks 64 and 67 are only worth 170 points = pick 58 (or thereabouts if we swap for a next seasons pick).

 

[Marcel Proust]

hardly a feeder club when you're taking their guys that can't get a game for them

The saints are clearly Chelsea


Richmond SBV Vitesse

Commerical banker gags a far more ugly but equally effective upper manager to Marina Granovskaia

 

[Baker_for_PM]

bruce averages 1.4 goals a game playing as the permanent #1 key forward target. vickery averaged that while also playing in the ruck. just because you had noone else and the dogs were desperate, doesnt make him not a rubbish footballer. if any of the big men available this year had been available last year, you wouldnt have got a packet of chips for bruce.

Bruce played his first few years as a defender, Once he moved forward playing along side Riewoldt and Membrey he had 50,38,36,36 goal seasons with this season at the dogs being his lowest return since his injury plagued 2018. He may not be an elite but he is far from rubbish.

 

[Baker_for_PM]

The saints are clearly Chelsea


Richmond SBV Vitesse

Commerical banker gags a far more ugly but equally effective upper manager to Marina Granovskaia

 

[theyellowsash]

Bruce played his first few years as a defender, Once he moved forward playing along side Riewoldt and Membrey he had 50,38,36,36 goal seasons with this season at the dogs being his lowest return since his injury plagued 2018. He may not be an elite but he is far from rubbish.

sure, if you think that 36 goals from a stay at home full forward (#1 target) is good. 1.7 goals a game, whoopie do. if youre going to take the 'only the last few seaons count' angle, then vickery averaged the same 1.65 goals/game in the 4 years leading up to him going to hawthorn. from an almost identical number of games. while also playing ruck.

if demanding adequate performances from a full forward makes me crazy, then what does that make a club that offers 4 years to one that doesnt?

 

[Omin]

I wonder how professional stkilda will be if a required contracted player they took as a 1st rounder was approached and wanted to leave

This is the main point of the conversation and Bruce whether or not you think he is good is irrelevant. The main point is he was best 22 and our #1 key forward who was contracted was offered bigger money we couldn’t match and we let him move on without any hassle or getting paid overs.

Being a first round pick is irrelevant especially since we aren’t even talking a top 10 pick.

 

[Baker_for_PM]

sure, if you think that 36 goals from a stay at home full forward (#1 target) is good. 1.7 goals a game, whoopie do. if youre going to take the 'only the last few seaons count' angle, then vickery averaged the same 1.65 goals/game in the 4 years leading up to him going to hawthorn. from an almost identical number of games. while also playing ruck.

if demanding adequate performances from a full forward makes me crazy, then what does that make a club that offers 4 years to one that doesnt?

I'm sorry I just think trying to kick goals from the backline may affect the statistics you seem to value so much.
When was he ever our main full forward? 2016,17,18,19 leading goal kicker was Membrey the only season he played key FF was 2015 when he kicked 50.
He played manly 3rd forward for most of his time with us with Riewoldt and Tim. Bulldogs traded for him to take the pressure of Naughton not for a key full forward. Ty was never your main ruckman he pinched hit when needed, he nearly always started in the FP.

 

[theyellowsash]

I'm sorry I just think trying to kick goals from the backline may affect the statistics you seem to value so much.

good thing the stats i quoted above were from the 4 years he played forward before being traded then. but sure, if you think a player of tyrone vickerys quality is worthy of a 2nd and 3rd round pick and 4 year contract when 29, then go for it.

 

[aussierulesrules]

good thing the stats i quoted above were from the 4 years he played forward before being traded then. but sure, if you think a player of tyrone vickerys quality is worthy of a 2nd and 3rd round pick and 4 year contract when 29, then go for it.

What the hell are you talking about, he was 27yo when he was traded, and it was WB who believed he was worth a 4 year contract on excellent coin, hence giving it to him.

 

[Harvey to Hayes]

I wouldn't call it a win/win, but we didn't get absolutely destroyed. Slight unders for what I'd hoped but I've seen far worse trades.

Am hoping all the fairness and goodwill we show other clubs and our players at the trade table comes back around. I genuinely think that's the value to us here, treat your players well and you'll see good results. We could have done a Dodoro and held Higgins to contract demanding pick 17 alone but we don't operate that way, we almost always get our players where they want to go if they ask for more opportunities.

Karma is definitely a thing in trades I reckon clubs would infinitely prefer to deal with your mob moving forward than clubs who try to screw you every time

 

[Harvey to Hayes]

Really ? St Kilda seeks out a contracted player that was a 1st rounder and haggles for the required players value

I see only 1 club thats not trying to win here and happy to look after its players looking to move on and 1 team thats just looking for bargains

I wonder how professional stkilda will be if a required contracted player they took as a 1st rounder was approached and wanted to leave

How does pick #43 sound for Max King

12

Max King

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1.4

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4.7

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2.6

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5.2

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2.8

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2.8

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0.6

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1.4

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. Richmond traded for an injured and uncontracted Dion Prestia

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Dion Prestia

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4.4

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4.6

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D

21.2

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10.4

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10.8

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2.4

3star

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4.2

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3.2

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12.8

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6.0

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6.8

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3.2

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3.0

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1.4

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and the demand was pick #6 and Richmond paid it.

s**t take

 

[Baker_for_PM]

good thing the stats i quoted above were from the 4 years he played forward before being traded then. but sure, if you think a player of tyrone vickerys quality is worthy of a 2nd and 3rd round pick and 4 year contract when 29, then go for it.

You do realize one of the reasons he left was because he wasn't offered that kind of contract from St Kilda? Since your so enamored by stats Bruces numbers would be 160 goals in 86 games at a avg of 1.86 which i still believe is decent from a 2nd/3rd fwd. My main point all along was "rubbish" is a ridiculous choice of words when describing Josh try "serviceable". Ty had the potential to be a great footballer he was just a headcase and you got a second round pick in a broken free agency system for him that got you Bolton, We got Zak Jones

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Zak Jones

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29

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17.8

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10.0

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7.8

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3.4

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3.0

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1.7

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D

19.1

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10.6

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8.6

4star

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3.4

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3.1

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4.9

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7.0

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2.8

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4.2

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1.0

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1.6

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1.0

3star

which looks like a bargain so in then end we both lucked out.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Really ? St Kilda seeks out a contracted player that was a 1st rounder and haggles for the required players value

I see only 1 club thats not trying to win here and happy to look after its players looking to move on and 1 team thats just looking for bargains

This deal had piss all haggle, St Kilda offered just a future second which was knocked back then both clubs had a beer or 2, spent some time laughing at Dodoro, then smashing out a deal that is good for both sides.

Richmond probably took unders but Higgins gets to play for his childhood club, Richmond get a better pick for this draft and should get a good pick for next years second round (I assume richmond have good recruiters and are well run in the department) and get 200kish cap room to play around with.

Player agents also know that Richmond wont be campaigners at the trade table and wont pull a collingwood, good will can go a mile in this league.

 

[THE_GUN]

This deal had piss all haggle, St Kilda offered just a future second which was knocked back then both clubs had a beer or 2, spent some time laughing at Dodoro, then smashing out a deal that is good for both sides.

Richmond probably took unders but Higgins gets to play for his childhood club, Richmond get a better pick for this draft and should get a good pick for next years second round (I assume richmond have good recruiters and are well run in the department) and get 200kish cap room to play around with.

Player agents also know that Richmond wont be campaigners at the trade table and wont pull a collingwood, good will can go a mile in this league.

LOL I'll ask the same question

How would St Kilda fans taking 'Unders ' if a 1st rounder like a gresham or King decided to leave to come to Richmond for pick #17 or unders

We could just have piss all haggle and a couple of beers afterwards.


The point is that Richmond were very very kind to St Kilda last year to facilitate the Butler to St Kilda deal and as a thank you St Kilda want to haggle
then we hear supporters here saying both sides are good to deal / trade with. Seems to me only 1 side has shown this with the other side penny pinching.

Take you St Kilda glasses off you will see more clearly

 

[THE_GUN]

This is the main point of the conversation and Bruce whether or not you think he is good is irrelevant. The main point is he was best 22 and our #1 key forward who was contracted was offered bigger money we couldn’t match and we let him move on without any hassle or getting paid overs.

Being a first round pick is irrelevant especially since we aren’t even talking a top 10 pick.

Its a terrible comparison !!

Clearing bruce actually suited St Kilda and he no longer required as a 27 year old with no upside but had stagnated, Saints got his salary off the books
He is a better comparison to Sam Lloyd

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Sam Lloyd

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34

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81kg

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13.3

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8.8

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4.5

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M

4.2

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2.6

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G

1.3

5star

D

6.8

1star

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4.0

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2.8

2star

M

2.5

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2.8

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0.3

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14.0

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8.4

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5.6

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3.6

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4.4

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1.4

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who Richmond gave away to the doggies. Not a 21 year old 1st round pick who played 43 put of 61 games even after missing 12 games due to his brain surgery. St Kilda wouldnt even want to give up Bytel for a 2nd rounder.

But look its pointless to argue when most St Kilda supporters view is 'we got him on the cheap' and most Richmond supporters believe we gave him away for unders.

Fair pick for Higgins was a pick #20 and thats where St Kilda's 1st rounder falls and as reported St Kilda made 1st contact wit Higgins who is a contracted player should have offered its 1st and traded what was fair.

Im sure thats what you would expect if another club approached a contracted 21 year old 1st rounder at St Kilda

 

[lewdogs]

LOL I'll ask the same question

How would St Kilda fans taking 'Unders ' if a 1st rounder like a gresham or King decided to leave to come to Richmond for pick #17 or unders

We could just have piss all haggle and a couple of beers afterwards.


The point is that Richmond were very very kind to St Kilda last year to facilitate the Butler to St Kilda deal and as a thank you St Kilda want to haggle
then we hear supporters here saying both sides are good to deal / trade with. Seems to me only 1 side has shown this with the other side penny pinching.

Take you St Kilda glasses off you will see more clearly

St Kilda actually felt they paid overs for Higgins. Maybe you need to take the glasses off, he was never worth a straight first rounder.

 

[evo]

Let's face it, Richmond are the good guys of trade week. Too nice.

 

[THE_GUN]

St Kilda actually felt they paid overs for Higgins. Maybe you need to take the glasses off, he was never worth a straight first rounder.

Why do you believe he was never worth a pick #17
21 year old 1st rounder picked at #17 in a stronger draft
Played 43 out of 61 possible games missing 10 games last year due to brain surgery yet played 10 games with no pre season and was considered good enough for St Kilda to chase as a contracted player. Yet not worth the same pick he was drafted at in a draft where due to covid there is no exposed form for 50% of the juniors. Penny pinchers

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

LOL You do realise we can view the trade thread on the St Kilda board yeah !!

Why do you believe he was never worth a pick #17
21 year old 1st rounder picked at #17 in a stronger draft
Played 43 out of 61 possible games missing 10 games last year due to brain surgery yet played 10 games with no pre season and was considered good enough for St Kilda to chase as a contracted player. Yet not worth the same pick he was drafted at in a draft where due to covid there is no exposed form for 50% of the juniors. Penny pinchers

Most St Kilda posters were saying a swap of firsts and our future second.

Chill out and be happy that good players are wanting out as it is a sign of a powerhouse team.

 

[Ceanag]

LOL You do realise we can view the trade thread on the St Kilda board yeah !!

Why do you believe he was never worth a pick #17
21 year old 1st rounder picked at #17 in a stronger draft
Played 43 out of 61 possible games missing 10 games last year due to brain surgery yet played 10 games with no pre season and was considered good enough for St Kilda to chase as a contracted player. Yet not worth the same pick he was drafted at in a draft where due to covid there is no exposed form for 50% of the juniors. Penny pinchers

Whats done is done ... Build a bridge ...etc etc

 

[THE_GUN]

Most St Kilda posters were saying a swap of firsts and our future second.

Chill out and be happy that good players are wanting out as it is a sign of a powerhouse team.

??? But St Kilda fans are telling us they will smash Richmond

So I should be happy that good players are wanting out TO go to a powerhouse team?

 

[THE_GUN]

Whats done is done ... Build a bridge ...etc etc

I'll use the premiership cups to use as a bridge
But dont piss in our pockets saying 'Both' clubs are good traders. Tigers - Yes Saints - penny Pinchers

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

I'll use the premiership cups to use as a bridge
But dont piss in our pockets saying 'Both' clubs are good traders. Tigers - Yes Saints - penny Pinchers

Just because you repeat it enough it does not make it True

 

[THE_GUN]

Just because you repeat it enough it does not make it True

And you provide me with the ammunition to continue to repeat it with every post you quote and Just shows how much of a great 'BIG' club Richmond is with its own assistance package to the Saints for the 2nd year both on field and also off field with the extra revenue the AFL gets due to big clubs that enable the Saints to receive the 3rd higher financial assistance ($20mil - $21mil 4 years running $4 million above any other melbourne club ) from the AFL.