Patrick Cripps

[Ambrosia]

The second of those junk time goals in another Carlton loss was near the final siren. Cripps gave himself a big fist pump. For me that symbolised both a wider malaise on the Blues' list and where Cripps is at. Maybe that prompted the Lethal bake.

I really like Cripps but the game and his body have gone past him being an A grader and potential champion of the Competition. He is a liability in transition because he runs in treacle boots.

He is still a valuable player at Carlton but I suspect more as a role playing solid B grader. There is nothing wrong with that.

What is questionable is the length of the contract extension (6 years) and the purported dosh he is being paid (circa $750k pa ave). Personally a 3 year contract, with performance based options at around $450-500k pa base would have been reasonable.

The Cripps contract adds pressure to Carlton's cap. They have overpaid prominent name imports who have failed to deliver and the SOS era did not help either. Eventually they could lose a Walsh.

Actually of their imports Nic Newman is a stand out. He was in their best this week, would be on minimum chips and is the sort of C+ role player the Blues need more of.

Their list needs a big clean out a bit like North did. The new Coach and List management crew need to nail the Draft and avoid the quick fixes that has been the Club's hallmark.

I’m not going to read into players celebrating goals. It’s fairly obvious at most clubs that the players are told to celebrate their goals hard to try and manufacture momentum.

Watch Richmond play you’d think every goal they kick was a match winner.

 

[Noidnadroj]

What evidence do you have of that figure? All I could find was AFL 2021: Patrick Cripps contract, no pay cut, salary, Carlton Blues, trade news, contract news, latest news (foxsports.com.au). Not sure I would trust Sam Mcclure over Cripps himself. There is a huge difference between 700-750k x 6 vs 900k x 6.

If you think as captain that Cripps has accepted $50-100k per season less than Zac Williams I think you’re being naive. Anyway…. $4.5m over 6-years is massive overs as well.

3-years on $1.8m was an appropriate contract whichever way you analyse it.

If he’s fit then that’s in line with his output. If he’s not fit as everyone at Carlton keeps hinting at as the reason for him becoming average, how on earth do you land on a 6-year commitment…?



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[00Stinger]

His contract isn't that high. It was reported by the club, coach, and Cripps himself as being a more reasonably $750k-ish, which puts him around the 25-50th highest paid player in the league for the duration of his deal.

And here is the issue. On his past 24 months he would probably be lucky to be in the top 100 players

 

[Rich01]

If you think as captain that Cripps has accepted $50-100k per season less than Zac Williams I think you’re being naive. Anyway…. $4.5m over 6-years is massive overs as well.

3-years on $1.8m was an appropriate contract whichever way you analyse it.

If he’s fit then that’s in line with his output. If he’s not fit as everyone at Carlton keeps hinting at as the reason for him becoming average, how on earth do you land on a 6-year commitment…?



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The blues were put in a difficult position.
They had to reward his loyalty even if his current form wasn’t up to it. Williams and McGovern deals made it hard for them to offer him unders - it would have been a kick to the teeth to a club champ.

The four year deal initially mooted would have been ideal. Even if he ended up continuing his current form, I think the acknowledgment of the $$$ would have been for his standing in the game.

Another six years on top of this one is far too long though. It makes him impossible to trade, constrains the salary cap and puts ridiculous pressure on the player who is either cooked already or playing injured. That said, he signed the contract so with that comes expectation.

The current list manager does have a lot to answer for. I have no doubt Walsh will stay, but he should be demanding $1m+ a year to stay based on the $$$ being given vs performance and pay of some of his peers.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

If you think as captain that Cripps has accepted $50-100k per season less than Zac Williams I think you’re being naive. Anyway…. $4.5m over 6-years is massive overs as well.

3-years on $1.8m was an appropriate contract whichever way you analyse it.

If he’s fit then that’s in line with his output. If he’s not fit as everyone at Carlton keeps hinting at as the reason for him becoming average, how on earth do you land on a 6-year commitment…?



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Lets just say hypothetically he gets back to his 2018-2019 form. Then would that deal not be massive unders would it not? Im not saying I think he will get back to that. But nobody knows whats happened to him other than himself and the club. Could be for all they know hes been playing with a broken back half the year and believe he'll be back to a top player the next 5 years

 

[PrisonBars4life]

If you think as captain that Cripps has accepted $50-100k per season less than Zac Williams I think you’re being naive. Anyway…. $4.5m over 6-years is massive overs as well.

3-years on $1.8m was an appropriate contract whichever way you analyse it.

If he’s fit then that’s in line with his output. If he’s not fit as everyone at Carlton keeps hinting at as the reason for him becoming average, how on earth do you land on a 6-year commitment…?



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Some people are loyal. Robbie Gray has reportedly never been paid more than about 650k. I would expect that Boak has never been paid much more than 700k. Cripps is the captain, he is clearly invested and 750k is reasonable. 6 years is 1-2 years too much, but that seems to be the way the competition is moving. If he is completely cooked in year 5, players with loyalty to their clubs generally agree to a settlement and retire. I don't think it is nearly as bad as people are saying.

 

[btdg]

And here is the issue. On his past 24 months he would probably be lucky to be in the top 100 players

But that really isn't that big an issue.

the afl salary cap is far bigger and more flexible than people think, and the form of players in their 20s far more variable. The list of top 100 salaries is littered with players missing entire years, of players underperforming, etc.

In Cripps case, even in a quiet year he is a consistently good midfielder, who is an occasional match-winner, and who has a set of attributes that makes opponents think and plan ahead. He's also 26: he's not finished, any injury concerns are likely fixable, and his attributes mean he should continue to play well for the duration of the contract.

I'm completely ok with Cripps being locked in...

Even at Carlton, there's worse. McGovern on a slightly lower salary, but unable to get on the park and thus providing zero value? Williams being paid similar to play 17 games in the back pocket each year?

There's plenty of others around the league too. Also heaps and heaps of guys in their 30s at the tail-end of their career chewing up cap space they don't quite warrant. Carlton have essentially zero of those. And for every team, this is counterbalanced by guys in their early 20s earning less than they are 'worth'. That's just how the salary systme works

 

[btdg]

Some people are loyal. Robbie Gray has reportedly never been paid more than about 650k. I would expect that Boak has never been paid much more than 700k. Cripps is the captain, he is clearly invested and 750k is reasonable. 6 years is 1-2 years too much, but that seems to be the way the competition is moving. If he is completely cooked in year 5, players with loyalty to their clubs generally agree to a settlement and retire. I don't think it is nearly as bad as people are saying.

The Australian listed both Robbie Gray and Boak last year as $800k.

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

This article (and others they have repeated) seem to be the best source I've seen on player salaries at the top end, and I don't have any reason to doubt it. The way I read that article is that in both cases the players did take low salaries for a while, then Port identified a spot last year where they had teh cap space to make it up and gave them both hefty 2 year deals as a bit of a reward, which is excellent contract management (and good work all round IMO).

 

[btdg]

The blues were put in a difficult position.
They had to reward his loyalty even if his current form wasn’t up to it. Williams and McGovern deals made it hard for them to offer him unders - it would have been a kick to the teeth to a club champ.

The four year deal initially mooted would have been ideal. Even if he ended up continuing his current form, I think the acknowledgment of the $$$ would have been for his standing in the game.

Another six years on top of this one is far too long though. It makes him impossible to trade, constrains the salary cap and puts ridiculous pressure on the player who is either cooked already or playing injured. That said, he signed the contract so with that comes expectation.

The current list manager does have a lot to answer for. I have no doubt Walsh will stay, but he should be demanding $1m+ a year to stay based on the $$$ being given vs performance and pay of some of his peers.

How do you figure any of this?

Cripps is being paid a salary that puts him in the top 30-50 of players in the league. That's hardly undue pressure.

He's 26, not 30. Arguably just entering his prime. Form isn't linear, and he's been down in the last two years - while carrying an injury at times, in an underperforming team, playing a system that doesn't seem to suit his game.

It strikes me as completely reasonable to expect he will get back to a new peak that is close to his 2017-18 form. We've seen this previously too and there is a very clear precedent in Fyfe, who is arguable the closest comparison to Cripps (bigger bodied midfielder who also pushes forward):
- Fyfe dominated in 2014 and 2015 (aged 23 and 24). Bad injury aged 25. Played almost every game aged 26 but was below par. Bounced back aged 27 but had some further injury concerns (16 Brownlow votes in 15 games is pretty nice...). Won a second Brownlow aged 28.

I think Fyfe is better all round with Cripps weighted more to contested football. But in career pattern there is a definite similarity at least to this point...

With Walsh, he has been excellent, but is also 21 (just) and hasn't had nearly the consistency over time Cripps had, nor does he have the responsibility. Most likely, he'll sign an extension for 3? or 4? years next year that takes him to free agency and that is very reasonable. I'd expect $700k as the upper end, maybe even less. He'll set himself up with the flexibility of a big payday down the track, as most players seem to do now.

Our list manager certainly has questions after the past 2 off-seasons though. Williams is a joke of a deal. Martin was a reach, Saad a decent player but also a needless move IMO. McGovern is ancient history now, a poor move in hindsight as well. All bigger issues than Cripps getting an eminently reasonable contract despite being out of form...

 

[Bunk Moreland]

The blues were put in a difficult position.
They had to reward his loyalty even if his current form wasn’t up to it. Williams and McGovern deals made it hard for them to offer him unders - it would have been a kick to the teeth to a club champ.

The four year deal initially mooted would have been ideal. Even if he ended up continuing his current form, I think the acknowledgment of the $$$ would have been for his standing in the game.

Another six years on top of this one is far too long though. It makes him impossible to trade, constrains the salary cap and puts ridiculous pressure on the player who is either cooked already or playing injured. That said, he signed the contract so with that comes expectation.

The current list manager does have a lot to answer for. I have no doubt Walsh will stay, but he should be demanding $1m+ a year to stay based on the $$$ being given vs performance and pay of some of his peers.

They really didn't. It's harsh, but that's footy. He simply isn't up to it any more.

If they paid him big coin "cos he's captain and he used to be a star" then it's madness. Pay him what he's worth.

If you must then build in significant performance incentives so that if he returns to his best, he's paid commensurately. A big fat increase upon B&F wins or high finishes, or AA berths etc.

$750k for six years is absolutely ridiculous for a player of his ilk.

 

[Rich01]

How do you figure any of this?

Cripps is being paid a salary that puts him in the top 30-50 of players in the league. That's hardly undue pressure.

He's 26, not 30. Arguably just entering his prime. Form isn't linear, and he's been down in the last two years - while carrying an injury at times, in an underperforming team, playing a system that doesn't seem to suit his game.

It strikes me as completely reasonable to expect he will get back to a new peak that is close to his 2017-18 form. We've seen this previously too and there is a very clear precedent in Fyfe, who is arguable the closest comparison to Cripps (bigger bodied midfielder who also pushes forward):
- Fyfe dominated in 2014 and 2015 (aged 23 and 24). Bad injury aged 25. Played almost every game aged 26 but was below par. Bounced back aged 27 but had some further injury concerns (16 Brownlow votes in 15 games is pretty nice...). Won a second Brownlow aged 28.

I think Fyfe is better all round with Cripps weighted more to contested football. But in career pattern there is a definite similarity at least to this point...

With Walsh, he has been excellent, but is also 21 (just) and hasn't had nearly the consistency over time Cripps had, nor does he have the responsibility. Most likely, he'll sign an extension for 3? or 4? years next year that takes him to free agency and that is very reasonable. I'd expect $700k as the upper end, maybe even less. He'll set himself up with the flexibility of a big payday down the track, as most players seem to do now.

Our list manager certainly has questions after the past 2 off-seasons though. Williams is a joke of a deal. Martin was a reach, Saad a decent player but also a needless move IMO. McGovern is ancient history now, a poor move in hindsight as well. All bigger issues than Cripps getting an eminently reasonable contract despite being out of form...

What Cripps is being paid per year has been speculated in the media as anywhere between $750k-$900k.
No point arguing which it is closer to because the truth is no one on here knows the exact number. If he is a top 30-50 paid player, that means he’s in the top 2 in your club. Curnow is getting $800k a season. McGovern as well. What’s Walsh and McKay worth? Weitering? Williams on $850k.
They can’t all be top two paid players. Where does Patrick fit there?

And you are right. He will be 27 before the first year of his new six season contract begins.

As you pointed out, if he returns to his 17-18 form for 3 years then loses steam and perhaps performs the last three at 20-21 standard, it would be a great return.

The big worry for mine is that we are seeing a decline in his output over the last couple of years. So if he performs at 2021 standard for another three years, then drops further off the cliff (in his fourth year as a 30 year old), the contract is cumbersome.

Again, I don’t think the $$$ just by itself on a yearly basis was the big issue. The risk lies in giving him six more years and banking on him getting back to form. It’s a risk the list manager has taken, and I hope it pays off for them.

To put the contract into context, I don’t think there would be another club that would take that on now - his contract makes it too risky for clubs to trade for, regardless of the draft collateral they would also have to forgo.

While I would have liked him at our club (on a four year, $650k deal), I am glad he will end up a one club player, and hope he sees success there.

 

[Bucking Bronco]

So the game has passed him by, while Ollie Wines who is even more weighted to being a contested ball winning specialist is enjoying the best season of his career and the 2nd shortest favourite to win the Brownlow with the bookies.

Makes sense.

Wouldn't be that maybe he is injured or in a down period like almost all players have for a season or two, just like Wines himself after he burst onto the scene in his first two seasons.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

I’m not going to read into players celebrating goals. It’s fairly obvious at most clubs that the players are told to celebrate their goals hard to try and manufacture momentum.

Watch Richmond play you’d think every goal they kick was a match winner.

But last play in a loss? This was not a momentum for team issue - it was personal hubris

 

[RonnieRaven]

How do you figure any of this?

Cripps is being paid a salary that puts him in the top 30-50 of players in the league. That's hardly undue pressure.

He's 26, not 30. Arguably just entering his prime. Form isn't linear, and he's been down in the last two years - while carrying an injury at times, in an underperforming team, playing a system that doesn't seem to suit his game.

It strikes me as completely reasonable to expect he will get back to a new peak that is close to his 2017-18 form. We've seen this previously too and there is a very clear precedent in Fyfe, who is arguable the closest comparison to Cripps (bigger bodied midfielder who also pushes forward):
- Fyfe dominated in 2014 and 2015 (aged 23 and 24). Bad injury aged 25. Played almost every game aged 26 but was below par. Bounced back aged 27 but had some further injury concerns (16 Brownlow votes in 15 games is pretty nice...). Won a second Brownlow aged 28.

I think Fyfe is better all round with Cripps weighted more to contested football. But in career pattern there is a definite similarity at least to this point...

With Walsh, he has been excellent, but is also 21 (just) and hasn't had nearly the consistency over time Cripps had, nor does he have the responsibility. Most likely, he'll sign an extension for 3? or 4? years next year that takes him to free agency and that is very reasonable. I'd expect $700k as the upper end, maybe even less. He'll set himself up with the flexibility of a big payday down the track, as most players seem to do now.

Our list manager certainly has questions after the past 2 off-seasons though. Williams is a joke of a deal. Martin was a reach, Saad a decent player but also a needless move IMO. McGovern is ancient history now, a poor move in hindsight as well. All bigger issues than Cripps getting an eminently reasonable contract despite being out of form...

Your right if Cripps wins the brownlow mvp and gets AA next year he will only be a brownlow behind at the same age.
Fyfe played 5 games in 2016, 2017 he played 21 but his first year as captain and coming back from serious injury effected him.
2018 back to his best but more injury!
Cripps injuries are a myth an excuse.
Played every game in 2020.
Going to play 20 games this year and got a 6 year contract if he had SERIOUS injuries that wouldn’t be the case.
Fyfe has never played every game in a season Cripps has twice.
Just because cripps moves like a cripple doesn’t mean his injured.

 

[zeggie]

Wow, some weird posts over the last 2 days.

Cripps has been managing an injury. He is also dealing with some serious off field issues relating to his partner. He's having an off year and he will be back to his best soon.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Everyone was saying Cripps was a one man show and needed some help.
He gets help, in the form of Walsh, Kennedy and Dow and his numbers drop because he isn't the only one carrying the load. Now it's 'Cripps is past it'.

In 2019, he was getting 17% of our clearances. This year he is getting 11%.
In 2019, he was getting nearly 3 clearances more than our 2nd placed winner, who was our ruck! This year, he's getting slightly less than what 2nd placed Kreuz was getting in 2019, but he's less than half a clearance per game ahead of Walsh.

He's still playing reasonable footy. He has definitely carried some niggles the past couple of seasons, but he's also been trying to do a little bit too much. When he was at his best, he would take the first option handball most times out of a stoppage/bounce. Now he tends to hold onto the ball longer, absorb the tackle and look for the 2nd/3rd option. It's usually not the best option and he ends up disposing under more pressure and killing a bit of momentum that would've been there if the 1st option was taken.
I don't care about the dollars or the length of the contract. The club can manage all of that stuff. It's only an issue if we can't afford to keep Walsh or Harry, or bring in another A grader because we're maxed out. So far, that hasn't been an issue.

 

[Milanista28]

I wouldn't write him off yet, bulked up in the wrong season, needs to lose 7-8kgs so he can run more, body has failed him this year, he'll bounce back.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Wow, some weird posts over the last 2 days.

Cripps has been managing an injury. He is also dealing with some serious off field issues relating to his partner. He's having an off year and he will be back to his best soon.

An off 2-years you mean.


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[Trent the flight Steward]

It's a worse contract then the Carlton kouta contract. The form was screaming out to everyone, that unfortunately he's gone from slightly ahead of Bont in 19, to been behind Luke Dunstan as a footballer 21. How the club list management could justify 6 years to Cripps, astounds me. I'd give Walsh a 6 year deal, but if they don't play Cripps where do they play him? Chb?

What Cripps is being paid per year has been speculated in the media as anywhere between $750k-$900k.
No point arguing which it is closer to because the truth is no one on here knows the exact number. If he is a top 30-50 paid player, that means he’s in the top 2 in your club. Curnow is getting $800k a season. McGovern as well. What’s Walsh and McKay worth? Weitering? Williams on $850k.
They can’t all be top two paid players. Where does Patrick fit there?

And you are right. He will be 27 before the first year of his new six season contract begins.

As you pointed out, if he returns to his 17-18 form for 3 years then loses steam and perhaps performs the last three at 20-21 standard, it would be a great return.

The big worry for mine is that we are seeing a decline in his output over the last couple of years. So if he performs at 2021 standard for another three years, then drops further off the cliff (in his fourth year as a 30 year old), the contract is cumbersome.

Again, I don’t think the $$$ just by itself on a yearly basis was the big issue. The risk lies in giving him six more years and banking on him getting back to form. It’s a risk the list manager has taken, and I hope it pays off for them.

To put the contract into context, I don’t think there would be another club that would take that on now - his contract makes it too risky for clubs to trade for, regardless of the draft collateral they would also have to forgo.

While I would have liked him at our club (on a four year, $650k deal), I am glad he will end up a one club player, and hope he sees success there.

 

[Noidnadroj]

I wouldn't write him off yet, bulked up in the wrong season, needs to lose 7-8kgs so he can run more, body has failed him this year, he'll bounce back.

I don’t think he’s been written off as an AFL quality footballer. But he’s been given 6-years on huge coin. It’s just lunacy. Let’s put it this way …. if he was offered up right now to any club, and they had to take his entire contract signed just a few weeks ago, is any club taking him and his contract? Not on your life.

He should have got 3-years on $650-700k/season. No club was offering more than that.


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[PhatBoy]

Why do people put a line through anyone?
If I had a five cent piece for every time I read ‘so and so is cooked’ and it’s blatantly proven wrong sooner or later I’d be richer than Elon Musk.
Yes I get that clubs have to make assessments about players and adjust their salaries accordingly but why do we still keep seeing people writing blokes off as ‘past it’ or ‘not that good’ or ‘cooked’ when it gets proven wrong so often?

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

I don’t think he’s been written off as an AFL quality footballer. But he’s been given 6-years on huge coin. It’s just lunacy. Let’s put it this way …. if he was offered up right now to any club, and they had to take his entire contract signed just a few weeks ago, is any club taking him and his contract? Not on your life.

He should have got 3-years on $650-700k/season. No club was offering more than that.


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You are very lucky to have all these close contacts in the industry. Links to 17 list management teams is pretty impressive. Can you ask them what they think of paying Tom Lynch 1.2m a season?

 

[btdg]

I don’t think he’s been written off as an AFL quality footballer. But he’s been given 6-years on huge coin. It’s just lunacy. Let’s put it this way …. if he was offered up right now to any club, and they had to take his entire contract signed just a few weeks ago, is any club taking him and his contract? Not on your life.

He should have got 3-years on $650-700k/season. No club was offering more than that.


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He's 26 and he isn't on huge coin - he will be around the 40-50 mark in terms of highest paid players. His deal is pretty reasonable for a multiple All Australian, 3x best and fairest winner who is also the club captain.

If we offered him to other clubs? He'd be snapped up in a second. If we'd let him get to free agency he'd have been given the same. Two years ago, Dylan Shiel got more money from Essendon with less runs on the board, at the same age. Last year we gave Zac Williams the same.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

You are very lucky to have all these close contacts in the industry. Links to 17 list management teams is pretty impressive. Can you ask them what they think of paying Tom Lynch 1.2m a season?

You are very fortunate to have close contacts in the industry….

 

[Noidnadroj]

You are very lucky to have all these close contacts in the industry. Links to 17 list management teams is pretty impressive. Can you ask them what they think of paying Tom Lynch 1.2m a season?

So a team would take on his contract? Of course not.

Lynch kicked 60-goals in his first year including BOG and 5-goals in the 2019 prelim …he has played 2-years for 2 flags. We got him without giving up a draft pick. We saw a need, got our man and won 2 flags.

Blues saw a need, got 2 x HBF’ers, gave up pick-8 and sacked their coach.


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