Roast St Kilda in no mans land

[Freomaniac]

aussierulesrules , the Free kick count at the saints vs cats was 19 free kicks each. Damn those corrupt umpires LoL.

The home town umpires wanted saints to win. LoL

This was pay back for the cats wanted a home final in Geelong in 2013 lol

 

[Toump Ass]

We only going off this year are we?

I mean he was pretty average last year and the year before that too.
His best year for goalkicking was 2016 with 44. That year the winner of the Coleman booted 80.

Membrey isn't even close to elite. Most clubs have better forwards than him, and plenty of clubs have two better forwards than him.

 

[staffonly]

I mean he was pretty average last year and the year before that too.
His best year for goalkicking was 2016 with 44. That year the winner of the Coleman booted 80.

Membrey isn't even close to elite. Most clubs have better forwards than him, and plenty of clubs have two better forwards than him.

Not many do.

 

[aussierulesrules]

How do you figure NWM Windhager and Owens looking very likely to become elite? Big call this early on.

Put Windhager on your watch list. Looks like he could be an absolute cracker, who’s fallen into our lap.

Watching him at ground level the speed he hits contests or the man at is a sight to behond, especially for someone who’s just 18yo, and he’s got the mix of attributes that those recruiting for clubs dream of.

Good height, built like a tank already, has genuine speed and power, they reckon he can “run all day” to go with it (which is a rare combo), he’s got really good skills, applies elite levels of pressure, is strong overhead, and he can play inside, outside, or up forward.

Comes from an elite basketball background (played for Australia in the U15 World Championships), then did an ACL two years ago and only played a handful of games last year due to Covid, so the fact he’s playing in a good team already augurs extremely well for him going forward.

 

[Present Not Past]

So it seems to be agreed that St Kilda is no longer in no mans land finally.
Close this thread and start a new one. Can St Kilda vie for a flag this year?

 

[mattwa]

Sinclair is elite
Ryder is Elite
Marshall is elite
Steele is Elite
Membrey is elite


King and Clark on the way
NWM Windhager and Owens looking very likely to become elite.

Are they elite? Steele made AA last year you can add him but the rest havent been recognised with any AA accolades or done much (except Ryder in the past). Are they good players? Absolutely but elite would be doing this over 1-2 seasons and none of those guys have. Sinclair is on track for AA so he is trending towards being that off a HBF.

How can you be calling Windhager looking very likely to be elite wasnt he the sub on the weekend?

 

[Toump Ass]

Not many do.

0 All Australians, never made the squad even?
Just pipped some guy named Wilkie for third spot in the B&F of a team that didn't make finals last year.
1.5 goals a game, 15 disposals.

You're very generous.

 

[markm106]

Put Windhager on your watch list. Looks like he could be an absolute cracker, who’s fallen into our lap.

Watching him at ground level the speed he hits contests or the man at is a sight to behond, especially for someone who’s just 18yo, and he’s got the mix of attributes that those recruiting for clubs dream of.

Good height, built like a tank already, has genuine speed and power, they reckon he can “run all day” to go with it (which is a rare combo), he’s got really good skills, applies elite levels of pressure, is strong overhead, and he can play inside, outside, or up forward.

Comes from an elite basketball background (played for Australia in the U15 World Championships), then did an ACL two years ago and only played a handful of games last year due to Covid, so the fact he’s playing in a good team already augurs extremely well for him going forward.

That’s all good and well. And he’s looked good so far I agree. But very likely to become elite? A big call this early.

 

[WillHayward]

So it seems to be agreed that St Kilda is no longer in no mans land finally.
Close this thread and start a new one. Can St Kilda vie for a flag this year?

Yep close thread.

Out of no mans land.

Question is what do they need to win the flag?

Shame Ryder isn't two years younger . Imagine Rydr and King together at peak ages. Would be awesome.

 

[The Nostradamus]

So it seems to be agreed that St Kilda is no longer in no mans land finally.
Close this thread and start a new one. Can St Kilda vie for a flag this year?

Let’s see how you go the next few weeks post the bye

I’m not convinced that you are more than just making up the numbers

 

[mrmonkey]

I understand the argument we don't have the elite players to win a flag

Steele and King would be the only truly elite players on the list. Gresham is not far off if he can be consistent

All those others mentioned are very good players but not what people would call elite.

As I said in an earlier post, we'd have to get a few out of that 23 and under group make it to elite to at least push for a flag.

I feel like we are still building. If we can find another couple out of that group then happy days. If not we will likely fall short.

This was the situation with Ratten's Carlton team around 2010/11. A good team but never good enough to truly challenge.

 

[The Nostradamus]

This was the situation with Ratten's Carlton team around 2010/11. A good team but never good enough to truly challenge.

Or north under brad scott

We made back to back prelims but we were clearly not good enough to seriously challenge for a flag

 

[stfan]

going ok is a bit different to elite though innit.

You are confused, as I was not the poster that stated he was elite. So you should address that to the poster that claimed it.


I said he was going ok in his goalscoring if he was 40th in the AFL, as that was the stat you were comparing him on, given that Membrey was not playing as pure forward as much this season. But I appreciate that your confusion was probably due to you being unaware of where Membrey was actually playing this season and hence were not using that relevant a statistic to try and make your point.

 

[mrmonkey]

Or north under brad scott

We made back to back prelims but we were clearly not good enough to seriously challenge for a flag

True, but Ratten is saints coach now hence the example. Ratten's not a bad coach did well with that Carlton team, he just didn't have the right cattle to truly challenge.

 

[Andy_Mac]

The saints current list is almost text book definition of no mans land, and finishing 4-6 this year isnt going to do much to help it.

Good win on the weekend against an ailing Geelong, but they did it with third oldest list (behind only Geelong and Richmond).

All things being equal they're no match for the Dee's and Brisbane right now, and the two next in line would appear to be Freo and Carlton who have both amsseed a cluster of elite talent about to enter their prime that will (in my view) see them take that next step from as soon as next year. The Saints by contrast have a couple of player (ie. Max King

12

Max King

Age

23

Ht

202cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

3star

G

1.4

5star

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

1star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

2.8

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

0.6

3star

G

1.4

5star

) that are superstars in the making, and then bunch of B+ footballers. Take Gresham as an example. I hear him talked up so much, and he's having his best season, but he's about to turn 25 and still only averages 23 touches and a goal a game. Not bad, but not ever going to get him anywhere near an AA team.

 

[Murraj1966]

The saints current list is almost text book definition of no mans land, and finishing 4-6 this year isnt going to do much to help it.

Good win on the weekend against an ailing Geelong, but they did it with third oldest list (behind only Geelong and Richmond).

All things being equal they're no match for the Dee's and Brisbane right now, and the two next in line would appear to be Freo and Carlton who have both amsseed a cluster of elite talent about to enter their prime that will (in my view) see them take that next step from as soon as next year. The Saints by contrast have a couple of player (ie. Max King) that are superstars in the making, and then bunch of B+ footballers. Take Gresham as an example. I hear him talked up so much, and he's having his best season, but he's about to turn 25 and still only averages 23 touches and a goal a game. Not bad, but not ever going to get him anywhere near an AA team.

Awful take. Mark Neeld level take.

Why the hell would you NOT want to finish 4th? The marketability of a club finishing 4th for trade targets and Free Agency outweighs coming 16th and getting a top draft pick who could be a star in 4 years.

 

[Andy_Mac]

Awful take. Mark Neeld level take.

Why the hell would you NOT want to finish 4th? The marketability of a club finishing 4th for trade targets and Free Agency outweighs coming 16th and getting a top draft pick who could be a star in 4 years.

Depends if you’re content with survival, or you actually want to win another flag.

St Kilda aren’t a free agent or a trade away from a premiership list.

 

[staffonly]

Depends if you’re content with survival, or you actually want to win another flag.

St Kilda aren’t a free agent or a trade away from a premiership list.

Grain of salt really. Melbourne were apparently a mile off in the pre season of 2021. Things change and move very quickly.

 

[Murraj1966]

Depends if you’re content with survival, or you actually want to win another flag.

St Kilda aren’t a free agent or a trade away from a premiership list.

And if that's the case then we aren't one off season of tanking away either?

Finals experience is far more valuable considering we already brought in a top 10 talent last year in Wanganeen-Milera and the 2 academy kids?

I dont see any realistic reason why we wouldn't want to play finals considering we still have plenty of young kids coming through and still have our first rounder this year?

 

[Toump Ass]

Grain of salt really. Melbourne were apparently a mile off in the pre season of 2021

We had Petracca (thanks for that), Oliver and Gawn in the midfield.
Elite players entering or in their prime.
Actual elite, not Membrey-level elite.

Saints don’t have that elite sexy talent in the midfield. You have Steele and Ryder (who is old and not very durable) and some B graders.

Your midfield isn’t close to the top teams and midfields win games.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Take Gresham as an example. I hear him talked up so much, and he's having his best season, but he's about to turn 25 and still only averages 23 touches and a goal a game. Not bad, but not ever going to get him anywhere near an AA team.

His averages were higher before he hurt his hip a few weeks ago.

Clarko for one would also disagree with you. Gave him a massive wrap the other night on Fox and believes having him back is the main reason we’ve returned to the top 6 this year.

He’s also coming off what is arguably the worst injury in footy or sport in general (a ruptured achilles), on top of a significant back injury the year before, so I’d say under the circumstances he’s going very well.

In the games he’s completed in the last 3 seasons we’re 14-7.

We’re 13-16 in the games he’s missed or didn’t play the 2nd half, and going into this year he received Brownlow votes in 4 of his last 8 completed games.

 

[staffonly]

We had Petracca (thanks for that), Oliver and Gawn in the midfield.
Elite players entering or in their prime.
Actual elite, not Membrey-level elite.

Saints don’t have that elite sexy talent in the midfield. You have Steele and Ryder (who is old and not very durable) and some B graders.

Your midfield isn’t close to the top teams and midfields win games.

You also had a patchwork forward line with no stars in it at all. A defense that was built around a key back that was unreliable and undisciplined. Things click and turn around very quickly.

 

[Saints TV]

Still dont see a premiership out of this list. Can see them ranging from 8th to 4th for a few years if all goes well but other than King who is the star? Mids are missing some X Factor but Gresham has been great on his return so could he go up another notch?

Defense is no names but is underrated as they play well together. Still a few pieces off making the step and could be brought down a few pegs quickly with injuries or players slipping in performance. Not a dig or slight on the Saints just my neutral observations but they are playing great footy as a collective unit and its great for saints fans

Who is the star? King, Steele, Gresh, Sinclair, Higgins, Marshall among many even contributors. Our bottom 5-6 are good too, that makes a huge difference. Players like Sharman, McKenzie, Long, Paton, Wood, Windhager are all playing important roles. Not EVERY player needs to be a star. The Bulldogs side of 2016 was not a list you probably thought would win the premiership, let alone do it by finishing outside the top 4.

 

[Saints TV]

St Kilda, to credit them, have been making the most of their incredibly easy run to start the season. Richmond, Hawks, Suns and Giants all in a row, but they're class (or lack of) showed with a loss to Collingwood in Round 1. Good win against Geelong, but they'll be tested over the coming few weeks. While they should get wins out of the next two (North & Adelaide, although I'm tipping they're 1:1 out of these) they come across a very tough block following: Brisbane (loss), Essendon (50:50), Sydney (loss), Carlton (loss), Dockers (loss), Doggies (loss).

Should be 8/9 from 17 leading up into Round 18. Will need to win two or three of the last four to make finals.

Incredibly easy? We're the only team in the top 8 to NOT play the bottom 3 sides on the ladder. Brisbane have played WC and North - that is a combined 180 points and % that those 2 games handed them. We've beaten 3 teams out of 4 that we've played who were IN THE 8 at the time of the match up. That isn't the easiest draw.

 

[Saints TV]

The saints current list is almost text book definition of no mans land, and finishing 4-6 this year isnt going to do much to help it.

Good win on the weekend against an ailing Geelong, but they did it with third oldest list (behind only Geelong and Richmond).

All things being equal they're no match for the Dee's and Brisbane right now, and the two next in line would appear to be Freo and Carlton who have both amsseed a cluster of elite talent about to enter their prime that will (in my view) see them take that next step from as soon as next year. The Saints by contrast have a couple of player (ie. Max King) that are superstars in the making, and then bunch of B+ footballers. Take Gresham as an example. I hear him talked up so much, and he's having his best season, but he's about to turn 25 and still only averages 23 touches and a goal a game. Not bad, but not ever going to get him anywhere near an AA team.

Third oldest list or third oldest starting 22 on the weekend (that's what really matters).

The list is made up of 40 odd and sure it might be the oldest, but how does that have any relevance on the age demographic of the team that played on Saturday? Answer: none at all.

Geelong on the other hand, what was their team age from the weekend's game? Probably 28?