Rumour GFC 2016 Player Trading, Drafting, FA, Rumours, and Wish lists.

[porgy]

I just don't understand this viewthat a number of people have expressed lately.

You/they want us to bottom out now, and try and rebuild for a flag.

But you/they seem to totally against the idea of spending 3-4 more years having a shot at the flag, and then bottoming out for a rebuild!

It isn't really very logical.

I understand your view, I do really. It comes down to if you think 3-4 of "contending" if feasible. I personally don't rate the list as much as others do.
For example take our 09 team, I'd only have Guthrie and danger as players that could replace anyone.
Also the longer you wait to bottom out the less players you currently have that will see any success.
Right now our list has the worst quality of any team in the Afl when it comes to under 23s. 3-4 more years and that becomes 26.
Sydney, GWS and WB all have great kids under 23.
Clearly the best 3 teams in the leaugue.
I'm not saying bottom out, I'm saying we need a balance.
Who's knocking the doors down in the 2s? Who's putting pressure on our B and C graders to perform? VFL listed players are constantly in the bests.
Even given our ladder position wells has been terrible with his picks, A few b graders aside. I don't blame him totally he's only getting 2 or 3 a year late in the draft.
I don't see anything wrong with giving more to get quality kids in say every second year, plus if a danger comes along great.
The draft is becoming far to much of a science where quality kids are so well researched. It's not 1999 anymore, quality is getting harder and harder to find with lower picks.
AFL is not NBA you can't just go buy lebron and wade and win a championship. You constantly need improvement from bellow.
So all I'm saying is look after today, but it might fail, we need a plane B as well.

 

[Lana]

Am I the only one, who's a bit bemused, by the yearly hysteria that seems to emerge regarding GWS fringe players. It seems like opposition clubs, and especially posters on bigfooty, go crazy for GWS off-cuts. It's one thing to nab a genuine player like Treloar, and to a lesser extent Tyson. But this faffing about guys like WHE, Steele, Stewart etc is bemusing to me. In reality, these guys are every bit the same as players in terms of value/development as say a Smedts/GHS/Murdoch. Yet I have seen numerous posters on the D & T board and elsewhere suggesting these guys are worth picks in the 20's or better. I've even seen it suggested more than once that Steele is worth a Top 10!

For mine, there are numerous reasons to be cautious when it comes to GWS guys. But the main one is the quality of the NEAFL. IMO, the jump from the VFL to the top level is a large one, and the longer an AFL draftee spends entrenched at the lower level the harder the gap is to bridge. This is especially amplified for anyone who spends significant development time in the NEAFL you'd think.

Looking at the list of guys GWS have traded out, there have been a number of players and yet no one really jumps out at me (apart from Josh Bruce) as a raging success.

Jack Hombsch (traded 2012), Dom Tyson, Taylor Adams, Kurt Aylett, Shaun Edwards, Josh Bruce, Sam Darley (all 2013) Jonathan O' Rourke, Kristian Jaksch, Mark Whiley, Jonathon Giles, Sam Frost (all 2014), Curtly Hampton, Jacob Townsend, Jed Lamb, Lachie Plowman, Andrew Phillips, Liam Sumner, Adam Treloar, Tomas Bugg (all 2015).

Disregarding Treloar, Adams and Tyson given they were premium trades, the list above is pretty underwhelming. If your looking to find hidden gold GWS isn't the best place to mine I reckon. Furthermore, even the 3 premium trades are currently in GWS favour I'd say. Treloar is a gun but has cost Coll 2 x picks 7. Tyson helped deliver Josh Kelly. Adams delivered Heath Shaw.

Buyer beware.

It is a factor in what seperates GWS from GC.
I think it would be a good idea to look at the movements in greater detail. Not all of them were at a premium and some of the failures reflect the clubs involved more than the players (either poor development, drafting or trade craft)

St Kilda got a steal for Bruce and it almost took them a season to realise it. It wouldn't surprise me if talent was wasted due to being incorrectly identified.

 

[hokee]

We should give the current crops of players 1-2 more years to contend for a flag though it will be hard given the talents in gws, melb and Bulldogs. Can't rebuild now with the mature players recruited last year. Hope kids like Parson, Cucino, cocky and House will come good. This year was our chance but we blew it.

 

[rocker_oz33]

I don't think we really blew it the team never clicked into gear and jelled ,something was missing.

 

[dazbroncos]

The kersten horse appears to have bolted.

Hope not.

GO Catters

 

[dazbroncos]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-10-09/trade-wrap-dockers-set-to-part-with-pick-no3

How would P33 be for Kersten ?

Unders for mine. WE gave that up to pick up. Have brought him thru injury and form to get to this point. Kicked 20 goals this year.
With better delivery to him, could have been 30.

I get the coulda woulda shoulda stuff but IMO him leaving leaves us very short on F50 options and if he leaves, it would not surprise me to see him blow up.
And that would be the bitterest pill to swallow.

Mind you, him being good mates still with Hamling and the reports both are Freo bound does not instill me in confidence.

Go Catters

 

[Turbocat]

I'll say it. I don't think the current list had what it takes to win a flag.
We have too many holes and lack the ruthlessness and determination of a Premiership team.
I don't see us having the ability to trade in ready made players to fill those holes and we have too good of a list to trade out a heap and bank bulk picks (ala 1999, 2001) so I think we are in for some frustrating years of being close enough but never actually taking that step.
Perhaps similar to the dogs circa 2008-2010 or even the Cats sides of the middle 90s.
I almost wish in a way we didn't get the 4 big ins last year.... Almost.

Over reaction ...almost. We beat the premiers twice , we are not totally out of it... but we don't need to add more 30 plus guys , we don't need to add pnp journey men. The Swans had 7 debutants in2016 , The Dogs had Dunkley in the GF ... and our latest early pick was not in our last side.

 

[catstragic]

I think what he means if we didn't recruit Danger, Henderson etc.. we'd have finished down the ladder and been "primed" for a rebuild because we're shitter and have better draft picks. **** that. I hope we're top 4 again next season, we got there this year with 3/4 of our new recruits still finding their feet and a few players that we typically rely on going backwards. If our recruits gel even better next season and we get _the same_ output from the 3-4 that slid this year as we did in 2015 then this list's output can improve further.

Agreed. So much potential in the list as it currently stands. Even if we had bottomed out this year we wouldn't have ended up holding half the Picks GWS have either, so we would have been doubly behind the 8 ball.

 

[Turbocat]

Am I the only one, who's a bit bemused, by the yearly hysteria that seems to emerge regarding GWS fringe players. It seems like opposition clubs, and especially posters on bigfooty, go crazy for GWS off-cuts. It's one thing to nab a genuine player like Treloar, and to a lesser extent Tyson. But this faffing about guys like WHE, Steele, Stewart etc is bemusing to me. In reality, these guys are every bit the same as players in terms of value/development as say a Smedts/GHS/Murdoch. Yet I have seen numerous posters on the D & T board and elsewhere suggesting these guys are worth picks in the 20's or better. I've even seen it suggested more than once that Steele is worth a Top 10!

For mine, there are numerous reasons to be cautious when it comes to GWS guys. But the main one is the quality of the NEAFL. IMO, the jump from the VFL to the top level is a large one, and the longer an AFL draftee spends entrenched at the lower level the harder the gap is to bridge. This is especially amplified for anyone who spends significant development time in the NEAFL you'd think.

Looking at the list of guys GWS have traded out, there have been a number of players and yet no one really jumps out at me (apart from Josh Bruce) as a raging success.

Jack Hombsch (traded 2012), Dom Tyson, Taylor Adams, Kurt Aylett, Shaun Edwards, Josh Bruce, Sam Darley (all 2013) Jonathan O' Rourke, Kristian Jaksch, Mark Whiley, Jonathon Giles, Sam Frost (all 2014), Curtly Hampton, Jacob Townsend, Jed Lamb, Lachie Plowman, Andrew Phillips, Liam Sumner, Adam Treloar, Tomas Bugg (all 2015).

Disregarding Treloar, Adams and Tyson given they were premium trades, the list above is pretty underwhelming. If your looking to find hidden gold GWS isn't the best place to mine I reckon. Furthermore, even the 3 premium trades are currently in GWS favour I'd say. Treloar is a gun but has cost Coll 2 x picks 7. Tyson helped deliver Josh Kelly. Adams delivered Heath Shaw.

Buyer beware.

A lot of this is fair and reasonable... Tom Boyd? Anthony Miles ? ... trying to sort out those missing games cause they are just not what their original pick would have have fortold , and those just not getting a chance and will develop with one and given time.

 

[Mr Meow]

Over reaction ...almost. We beat the premiers twice , we are not totally out of it... but we don't need to add more 30 plus guys , we don't need to add pnp journey men. The Swans had 7 debutants in2016 , The Dogs had Dunkley in the GF ... and our latest early pick was not in our last side.

If we take out sentiment then the only way to improve both our immediate first 22 and long term prospects it would be for say Deledio to replace a 30+ player from this year. Not to keep Cocky and co out of the side.

 

[Catman]

I understand your view, I do really. It comes down to if you think 3-4 of "contending" if feasible. I personally don't rate the list as much as others do.
For example take our 09 team, I'd only have Guthrie and danger as players that could replace anyone.
Also the longer you wait to bottom out the less players you currently have that will see any success.
Right now our list has the worst quality of any team in the Afl when it comes to under 23s. 3-4 more years and that becomes 26.
Sydney, GWS and WB all have great kids under 23.

09 is irrelevant. That team was full of players who were some of the best in club history. The current team and league environment is so different thanks to the dilution of talent due to the inclusion of GC and GWS and the introduction of Free Agency.

Sydney and GWS are greatly helped by their academy picks - Mills, Heeney etc. Most of the league aren't afforded this luxury.

The Dogs stunk for about five years, hence the accumulation of young talent. We've missed the finals once in a decade. The fact we keep on putting ourselves around the mark without any regular assistance of high picks, is a testament to the club and the structures/culture/people in place. The same sort of goes for Hawthorn, as much as it pains me to praise them. Though, we'll see how they fare from next season onwards now their era has ended.

I'm not saying bottom out, I'm saying we need a balance.
Who's knocking the doors down in the 2s? Who's putting pressure on our B and C graders to perform? VFL listed players are constantly in the bests.
Even given our ladder position wells has been terrible with his picks, A few b graders aside. I don't blame him totally he's only getting 2 or 3 a year late in the draft.
I don't see anything wrong with giving more to get quality kids in say every second year, plus if a danger comes along great.
The draft is becoming far to much of a science where quality kids are so well researched. It's not 1999 anymore, quality is getting harder and harder to find with lower picks.
AFL is not NBA you can't just go buy lebron and wade and win a championship. You constantly need improvement from bellow.
So all I'm saying is look after today, but it might fail, we need a plane B as well.

So how do we do this when we have no early picks? Trade away our proven players for unproven young talent in hope they'll be even better in years to come? Do we tank every second season?

 

[calder_daddy]

He has a new contract, he earned that contract..its up to him to decide if he wants to stay. Its up to the club if he gets selected. What ever is OK with me , its one thing not to offer a new contract to our champs..but to dishonour one.. that would would curdle the milk in my tea. He will alway be the Norm from 2011.. id offer him a role next to Wells if he wanted it...but if he wants to play..its up to him. It certainly was not his fault we played like that V the Swans.

I'm not saying that Geelong should revoke his contract or the fact he didn't earn it because who knows the little details of how he earned it.
I'm just saying IMO that before this year I was excited when the ball went anywhere near jimmy.
Now I cringe.
Also no one is blaming him for our loss to the swans
It takes 22 players in finals football and the WB showed us that

 

[thegerman]

Rich get Prestia Motlop Vardy
Rich lose 2016 and 2017 1st rounders

GC get 2016 and 2017 1st rounders rich
GC lose Prestia and picks 25 and 28

Cats get picks 25 and 28
Cats lose Motlop and Vardy

Can't trade two consecutive first round picks

 

[thegerman]

I don't think we really blew it the team never clicked into gear and jelled ,something was missing.

Totally agree. I can't remember a game where our team play totally hit it, so getting that together will be what we need

 

[thegerman]

If we take out sentiment then the only way to improve both our immediate first 22 and long term prospects it would be for say Deledio to replace a 30+ player from this year. Not to keep Cocky and co out of the side.

If Mots goes, cocky will get a fairly decent run at it

 

[Danger Money]

Can't trade two consecutive first round picks

Rubbish

Collingwood did with Treloar
We traded 1 for Danger and 1 for Hendo

 

[Lana]

Rubbish

Collingwood did with Treloar
We traded 1 for Danger and 1 for Hendo

They traded a first round pick last year

 

[Danger Money]

They traded a first round pick last year

Rubbish

Rioli ????

 

[Lana]

Rubbish

Rioli ????

You are correct, they traded in another first rounder that they sent to Carlton for Yarran.

 

[catempire]

Now that the official trade period is open we have a current thread going here:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/official-trade-period-discussion.1148574/