Rumour GFC 2019 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists PT 2

[CatsDoItBetter]

We are talking about a rookie spot for Bennel. As opposed to a main list spot for Menzel. That makes a difference, also they are different injuries to players who play in different parts of the ground.

 

[Partridge]

Not in respect of HB ... I just asking for what you feel we should get from an R1 ..either thru trade or draft.

My position on Henderson was..he should have been a FA..the system is wrong atm... but as he wasnt ..it was a funny call to get him but we have shown that we do bring in ex Falcons that want to come if we see value in them . Henderson played 54 games but only 13 in the last 2 years. Is 50 games a pass for the use of a R1 pick? Id have been happier if he was a CHF/CHB but his main role was to come in and cover the outgoing KPD's .. and the transfer of Blitz into the role probably now means there is one spot at the most. Last year it was Taylor or Henderson ..and he could not get past Taylor..
Id say if we compare it to a Lang type drafting ..then Henderson was a reasonable outcome.. if we compare it to the potential of a Clark and take into acount the player we might have in our side now from that draft.. probably barely a pass.

Ah fair enough my mistake. Sorry I misunderstood.

Regarding the bolded it's interesting, and why I continue to query drafting mature players. It's not that Henderson couldn't play, and at times he was pretty good in defence (not unlike Rivers in that respect). But the problem with getting guys at 26 is exactly this - you get four years out of him where for a round 1 draftee you'd be hoping for 10-12.

 

[MotlopMagic]

Keeping Taylor and Ablett is myopic and stunts the growth of the list. Not sure why they went down this path.
As I have said before, under someone like Clarkson they would be gone..

Because the club believes we are in a “premiership window”. We finished on top of the ladder and lead the eventual premiers by 21 points at half time in the preliminary final. Without 2 of our best 5 players no less. Ablett made the AA squad. It’s really not that hard to work out. You may not agree that we are in a “premiership window” but that’s another matter altogether.

Would they? I’m not sure why a 36 year old Burgoyne would be re-contracted for 2020 then.


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[MelbCat]

I think an organisation is in a far healthier place where leadership roles are earned, not given. I get the thinking around responsibility being the making of a person, but a welfare management professional generally needs to be exactly that.

I couldn't agree more with you, it was just an idea of what the club could possibly do with him "IF" they take the punt on him.

They know he won't be running until Feb at the latest so may as well have him at the club in some compacity "IF" they go down that path.

 

[Warhorse]

Just don't think he is as clean as a pick that high should be. Also think he is an ok kick but average. Wins inside and out but his skill set is way too meh for mine when he's talked about as a potential top 5.

No I meant taking D Stephens in the Flanders spot not as an alternative to Cooper.

Most recruiters disagree with me re Flanders though so I'm likely to be wrong.

I don't rate D Stephens at all. Doesn't do it for me. Then again I never rated gaff who he is constantly compared to

Flanders is so good as a forward as well as a midfielder. Reckon he is a ripper but at the same time it's not worth trading up to grab him as he is not that much better than what we can get at 14.

 

[Warhorse]

On another note, safl form doesn't seem to transfer as well into afl form when compared to the wafl. Heaps of u18s play seniors in the safl but never seem to progress.

 

[year of the cat]

Just don't think he is as clean as a pick that high should be. Also think he is an ok kick but average. Wins inside and out but his skill set is way too meh for mine when he's talked about as a potential top 5.

No I meant taking D Stephens in the Flanders spot not as an alternative to Cooper.

Most recruiters disagree with me re Flanders though so I'm likely to be wrong.

I’d be comfortable taking D.Stephens over Flanders if that’s the way Wells has it. Obviously more outside but has a nice turn of speed and a great left foot. We are needing outside types so he fits from a needs basis too.

 

[dazbroncos]

Ah fair enough my mistake. Sorry I misunderstood.

Regarding the bolded it's interesting, and why I continue to query drafting mature players. It's not that Henderson couldn't play, and at times he was pretty good in defence (not unlike Rivers in that respect). But the problem with getting guys at 26 is exactly this - you get four years out of him where for a round 1 draftee you'd be hoping for 10-12.

I get your point and it stands to reason but you can't have it both ways. i agree you are hoping for it but you have sited
Lang, Thurlow, Smedts as all Rd1 fails. And they were.

Point is, sure we all want every Rd 1 pick to be a winner and a 200 gamer but it just does not happen. And you want every traded player to be a 200 gamer for us too - but its just not gonna happen. There are going to be fails and if you ncat accept it you are just going to be bitter and disappointed.

GO Catters

 

[Turbocat]

Ah fair enough my mistake. Sorry I misunderstood.

Regarding the bolded it's interesting, and why I continue to query drafting mature players. It's not that Henderson couldn't play, and at times he was pretty good in defence (not unlike Rivers in that respect). But the problem with getting guys at 26 is exactly this - you get four years out of him where for a round 1 draftee you'd be hoping for 10-12.

Id have to look at the average of what a R1 delivers .., CE loves that stuff... but I suspect 10-12 year players would be far from a lock for R1 players.... I guess we could look at 2009 and see how many were 10 year players from that year as a sort of a guide.. Lets say the 10 year players you are hoping for 150 games + ..It may or may not be represenatative .. but it looks like about 8 are going to deliver that 150 games from 19 players.. in 2009 and 4 of the 8 are at different clubs from who drafted them.

So overall ..trying to gauge a pass rate is difficult eyes... when you also build in development time for failures ... I can see the logic of trading for players if you believe they can give you that 4 years you mention.

Still .. I think there are a lot of reasons why drafting and using R1's are still the backbone of list build. To me you may have more success supplementing the drafted players with matures once you have the solid core group.. Im not convinced that just adding a couple of players like you do in Basketball works as well in a sport like AustRules..at AFL level.. I think a solid group building and developing together is not to be underestimated..

 

[Down at K Park]

I get your point and it stands to reason but you can't have it both ways. i agree you are hoping for it but you have sited
Lang, Thurlow, Smedts as all Rd1 fails. And they were.

Point is, sure we all want every Rd 1 pick to be a winner and a 200 gamer but it just does not happen. And you want every traded player to be a 200 gamer for us too - but its just not gonna happen. There are going to be fails and if you ncat accept it you are just going to be bitter and disappointed.

GO Catters

Just look at macartin. No 1 pick, and after a series of head knocks his career is pretty much over. He is going to sit out next year. Can’t see him playing again though.

 

[Strange Cat]

Just look at macartin. No 1 pick, and after a series of head knocks his career is pretty much over. He is going to sit out next year. Can’t see him playing again though.

I’m shocked that either the club or his doctor hasn’t told him to give it up

he’s so young it isn’t worth the risk

 

[Pollywaffle]

I’m not sure why a 36 year old Burgoyne would be re-contracted for 2020 then.

True, but the guy is a freak and has shown little signs of dropping off, unlike Taylor and Ablett who are shadows of their previous selves.

 

[MotlopMagic]

True, but the guy is a freak and has shown little signs of dropping off, unlike Taylor and Ablett who are shadows of their previous selves.

The output of Ablett and Burgoyne in 2019 isn’t even comparable. Ablett > daylight > Burgoyne.


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[Pollywaffle]

The output of Ablett and Burgoyne in 2019 isn’t even comparable. Ablett > daylight > Burgoyne.
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If you say so...

 

[MotlopMagic]

If you say so...

Seriously?


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[nohairandfair]

The output of Ablett and Burgoyne in 2019 isn’t even comparable. Ablett > daylight > Burgoyne.


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Ablett showed signs of losing that magic during the course of the season. In fact his performances in the finals were quite uncharacteristic with incessant fumbling.

In saying that he's still in our top half dozen and his ball use and vision is still exquisite.

 

[CatsDoItBetter]

True, but the guy is a freak and has shown little signs of dropping off, unlike Taylor and Ablett who are shadows of their previous selves.

Do you think Burgoyne played better than Ablett last season?

 

[MotlopMagic]

Ablett showed signs of losing that magic during the course of the season. In fact his performances in the finals were quite uncharacteristic with incessant fumbling.

In saying that he's still in our top half dozen and his ball use and vision is still exquisite.

Agree on both accounts. He’s clearly not the player he was but the fact he is still in our top 6 is a testament to the player he is/was.


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[CarAttack]

Taylor can hold his head high , fantastic career
My fear is that he will not drop off gradually , I think he will hit the wall very hard at some stage next season.
Struggled on Cameron and Lynch for a start and guys like Brown , Daniher , McKay , Curnow , Lewis Mitchell , 2MP will worry him in 2020.

Never fear, Chris Scott will simply play him in a wing. That will solve that problem

 

[fpm84]

Ablett showed signs of losing that magic during the course of the season. In fact his performances in the finals were quite uncharacteristic with incessant fumbling.

It’s been confirmed by a couple of people including Gaz’s manager that he played through the finals with a hamstring injury. Explains plenty including his overnight inability to kick beyond 40m during the finals when he was kicking set shots from outside 50 during the season.

 

[MelbCat]

I’m shocked that either the club or his doctor hasn’t told him to give it up

he’s so young it isn’t worth the risk

Sometimes clubs put them first.
When ever he retires there will be legal action against the club and most likely the AFL at some point of his life.

 

[fallout11]

Taylor was 2 metres behind lynch in prelim he will be slower again

Our AA Full Back would not have been slower than lynch, but he was playing on the wing...

 

[CatRiot]

Do you think Burgoyne played better than Ablett last season?

Not a chance.
GAJ had a handful of very influential games, but did taper off at end of season.
He should've been managed much better, and they will do that this year for sure.

 

[Pollywaffle]

Seriously?
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Not sure we can say daylight from Burgoyne- Ablett. Burgoyne has a degree of flexibility and durability allowing him ro play multiple roles which may suit current hawks strategies and deficiencies. I wouldnt be surprised to see him gradually sidelined as next season progresses though.
No doubt Gaz is still producing, albeit well below his best, and despite his underwhelming finals efforts. Will he be keeping a younger developing guy out of the lineup next year? We have a few small forward options now.
Re Burgoyne. He still has a year to run on his contract (?)and I suspect if it were up for renewal this year he would probably be on his way. Clarkson has already let a number of still productive superstars go in his tenure because he understands the need for reinvigorating his list and is not seduced by the mirage of never ending premiership windows or obligations to old campaigners.

 

[thecatattack]

Not sure we can say daylight from Burgoyne- Ablett. Burgoyne has a degree of flexibility and durability allowing him ro play multiple roles which may suit current hawks strategies and deficiencies. I wouldnt be surprised to see him gradually sidelined as next season progresses though.
No doubt Gaz is still producing, albeit well below his best, and despite his underwhelming finals efforts. Will he be keeping a younger developing guy out of the lineup next year? We have a few small forward options now.
Re Burgoyne. He still has a year to run on his contract (?)and I suspect if it were up for renewal this year he would probably be on his way. Clarkson has already let a number of still productive superstars go in his tenure because he understands the need for reinvigorating his list and is not seduced by the mirage of never ending premiership windows or obligations to old campaigners.

If someone is getting held out of the side by a 35yr old then maybe it's on them to perform better and take the spot?