Preview Round 10, 2020: Gold Coast v St.Kilda - Metricon Stadium, Thursday 6th August, 8:10PM AEST *RYDER 250TH*

[prophetic1]

2009

Rounds 17-21

interesting ..thanks!

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

Pretty rough on Savage in here I reckon… plays a different game to Long.

Savage last week
483m gained (elite)
5 rebound 05's (elite)
4 inside 50's (elite)
4 spoils
3 tackles
2 clearances
2 intercept marks


Long average this year
130m gained
1.5 rebound 50's
0.8 inside 50's
1.5 spoils
2.3 tackles
0 clearances
1 intercept mark

We keep talking about run and drive off half back but Long doesn't really offer that… he's a really good intercept player and reads the play well but he's not really giving us that rebound defensive drive that people think. Happy he's back in the side but I don't think we need to rubbish what Savage did last week, there are not many sides that his game would get you dropped from.

Our defence has been rock solid this year but we don't really have anyone playing that level of attacking rebound from defence like Savage was last week.

How many turnovers?
Savage played one of his better games defensively but his long bomb in hope isn't what we do anymore when we go for short possession chains up the corridor.

 

[bird_man]

Pretty rough on Savage in here I reckon… plays a different game to Long.

Savage last week
483m gained (elite)
5 rebound 05's (elite)
4 inside 50's (elite)
4 spoils
3 tackles
2 clearances
2 intercept marks


Long average this year
130m gained
1.5 rebound 50's
0.8 inside 50's
1.5 spoils
2.3 tackles
0 clearances
1 intercept mark

We keep talking about run and drive off half back but Long doesn't really offer that… he's a really good intercept player and reads the play well but he's not really giving us that rebound defensive drive that people think. Happy he's back in the side but I don't think we need to rubbish what Savage did last week, there are not many sides that his game would get you dropped from.

Our defence has been rock solid this year but we don't really have anyone playing that level of attacking rebound from defence like Savage was last week.

I don't think anyone is rubbishing Savage, just pointing out that he doesn't play to the style Ratten clearly wants while Long, Paton, Coffield etc do.

I think that is pretty obvious with the fact he wasn't even named as an emergency.

I think if Ratten thought he played well he'd at least be an emergency. SuperCoach points are irrelevant.

He's handy depth.

 

[Moral Decay]

Long vs Sav
IMHO, is about 2 games where the we've failed to clear the ball from defensive 50 for the best part of a quarter.
If Long is a better option to get through a press he needs to be selected.
I'm just as concerned about the ability of Ryder, Marshall, Battle and Membrey to take marks between the arcs.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Creamed myself looking at that. Stop it Ratts!!!

View attachment 928226

This is where it begins...

 

[gringo2011]

You need to look at the style we play footy now. It's changed since Richo was coaching.

Have a look at our back 6. All have relatively low metres gained stats and despite this all have relatively high disposal efficiency.

This is because we aren't blindly kicking long down the line out of defence. We are much more inclined to lower our eyes and pull the trigger in the corridor.

Long is able to do this. Savage has proved for years he isn't. Had a chance on the weekend and clearly didn't play to the plan.

On top of that Long has been our best intercept player and one of our best contested ball winners.

He's not starring by any means, but he is playing his role and doing it well.

I get the difference. I don't see one as being outstandingly better than he other. Long definitely has age and lack of experience on his side. I don't see Long as having had many great games or even good games this season. I think Paton looks outstandingly better than him for example. I think turning him into a rebound back is a Ratts pet project and he'll get plenty of time to prove himself. Just disagree that he's been anything other than okay so far. The one preseason game he played he looked amazing in, he hasn't really done it at AFL level yet.

I think Savage started to settle down after a poor first quarter and the only other bombing he did was when the side stopped running and we just repelled their entries repeatedly, he wasn't alone. Long is in, so he just needs to repay the faith now, hope he has a great game.

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

How many turnovers?
Savage played one of his better games defensively but his long bomb in hope isn't what we do anymore when we go for short possession chains up the corridor.

Went at 57%. Considering any kick over 40m to a contest is considered an 'effective disposal', he realistically may have had 13 kicks for 483 metres without hitting a single St.Kilda jumper

 

[kernelT]

I don't think anyone is rubbishing Savage, just pointing out that he doesn't play to the style Ratten clearly wants while Long, Paton, Coffield etc do.

I think that is pretty obvious with the fact he wasn't even named as an emergency.

I think if Ratten thought he played well he'd at least be an emergency. SuperCoach points are irrelevant.

He's handy depth.

Wouldn't have a clue what supercoach points these guys are getting, but I'm tipping that if Long has an average game people won't be calling for him to be dropped.

And people were saying Savage was "awful" so I would call that rubbishing considering he was pretty good overall IMO.

 

[gringo2011]

I don't think anyone is rubbishing Savage, just pointing out that he doesn't play to the style Ratten clearly wants while Long, Paton, Coffield etc do.

I think that is pretty obvious with the fact he wasn't even named as an emergency.

I think if Ratten thought he played well he'd at least be an emergency. SuperCoach points are irrelevant.

He's handy depth.

I think he's not emergency because Long is playing, that's not necessarily a slight on him, we need players who can ruck in case Ryder doesn't get up and midfield cover. Perhaps Kent is still proppy so have Parker as emergency. It's not proof that Ratts hates his game.

 

[kernelT]

Went at 57%. Considering any kick over 40m to a contest is considered an 'effective disposal', he realistically may have had 13 kicks for 483 metres without hitting a single St.Kilda jumper

Would be incredible with 4 score involvements and two shots on goal.

 

[kernelT]

Zak Jones had 2 effective kicks from 8 kicks last week… maybe he's a richo player too?

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

Zak Jones had 2 effective kicks from 8 kicks last week… maybe he's a richo player too?

Kinda proving our point about these stats

 

[BrutThough]

I get the difference. I don't see one as being outstandingly better than he other. Long definitely has age and lack of experience on his side. I don't see Long as having had many great games or even good games this season. I think Paton looks outstandingly better than him for example. I think turning him into a rebound back is a Ratts pet project and he'll get plenty of time to prove himself. Just disagree that he's been anything other than okay so far. The one preseason game he played he looked amazing in, he hasn't really done it at AFL level yet.

I think Savage started to settle down after a poor first quarter and the only other bombing he did was when the side stopped running and we just repelled their entries repeatedly, he wasn't alone. Long is in, so he just needs to repay the faith now, hope he has a great game.

If we were to rank the main 7 backs this season - Wilkie, Carlisle, Howard, Paton, Coffield, Clark and Long - Long would be 7th on what he's produced.

He was always going to come back in and has shown some glimpses throughout games, but you are absolutely correct in that he hasn't been any better than 'okay' this season.

 

[BrutThough]

Went at 57%. Considering any kick over 40m to a contest is considered an 'effective disposal', he realistically may have had 13 kicks for 483 metres without hitting a single St.Kilda jumper

I haven't rewatched the entire game to verify specific examples, but I'm sure there were a few times where Savage correctly kicked it 40m to a contest and it was the forward who was outworked by his opponent or dropped the mark etc. making his kick ineffective and causing the ball to come back.

He was a lot better after the first quarter - and I thought his third quarter in particular was good when we were under so much pressure down back. He was always going to be the player to go out for Long - last in, first out. But I don't think he played as badly as some are suggesting.

 

[Ducky Tie]

Zak Jones had 2 effective kicks from 8 kicks last week… maybe he's a richo player too?

That's the whole point. Disposal efficiency is a highly flawed stat where a long kick under no pressure to a contest is an effective kick. This results in Savage constantly bombing long and not retaining possession but getting 'effective kicks'. Jones had 14 contested possessions and 8 clearances. That's eight stoppages where the ball is up for grabs and he gives us territory that we might not have otherwise had. His 'efficiency' might be low but his impact is high. The opposite of Savage.

 

[12Chill]

Look at the kick to HB ratio of the 2 and meters gained though, Ben is a running line breaker who dishes by hand, Sav a running line breaker that kicks long. HB is always going to be more accurate. They look pretty similar to me apart from the way the use the footy. Savage started to short kick too late unfortunately. I think guys on the fringe of best 22 are looking like they are playing to keep a spot instead of team footy without VFL as a show of quality.

You make a good point, unfortunately that does seem to be the knock on Sav (hate to sound like a broken record) is that a lot of his long kicks have ended up coming straight back.

I think with Coff and Clark being the distributors by foot out of defence (just on the eye test) and showing good form the need for Savage is lower than it has been in recent years, so while Long being more of a HB player I’d be guessing it’s to get it in the hands of those guys.

Maybe if Clark starts to play full time mid there could be an extra spot opening down back?

It definitely is a tough year in that regard with no VFL for them to go back to.

 

[bird_man]

Wouldn't have a clue what supercoach points these guys are getting, but I'm tipping that if Long has an average game people won't be calling for him to be dropped.

And people were saying Savage was "awful" so I would call that rubbishing considering he was pretty good overall IMO.

I think if Long goes down the path of blinding kicking it long down the line every time he gets it rather than lowering his eyes he'll come under scrutiny also

 

[kernelT]

Kinda proving our point about these stats

yup

poor effective kicks stat for player people don't really like = damning
poor effective kicks stat for player people think is a superstar = irrelevant

I'm not even a big Savage fan TBH, but I reckon if Long plays a game like Savage did last week, people will be foaming and pointing to similar stats rather than calling for him to be dropped.

We're very well stocked for defenders that's for sure, I'd be happy with any of Savage, Webster, Roberton, Austin coming into the side if we need them.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Looking forward to seeing all these bullet passes inside 50 tomorrow night.

Makes me wonder why King doesn't kick 5 goals a week.

 

[Joffaboy]

yup

poor effective kicks stat for player people don't really like = damning
poor effective kicks stat for player people think is a superstar = irrelevant

I'm not even a big Savage fan TBH, but I reckon if Long plays a game like Savage did last week, people will be foaming and pointing to similar stats rather than calling for him to be dropped.

We're very well stocked for defenders that's for sure, I'd be happy with any of Savage, Webster, Roberton, Austin coming into the side if we need them.

Well Savage was dropped by Ratts, no more needs to be said.

 

[kernelT]

Well Savage was dropped by Ratts, no more needs to be said.

Not sure why you even bother with a forum then to be honest.

 

[Joffaboy]

Not sure why you even bother with a forum then to be honest.

Because I am allowed to.

Savage was omitted and rightly so, the likes of him, Ross, Webster, Dunstan are Richo mediocre era and should be only used for depth.

 

[Hayes4PM]

Melts?

It’s crazy how the melts stop after a few good wins. Hard to melt when we’re in the 8 and in form.

 

[cooperg]

Good stats and feedback kernelT .

People won't have a go at long if he has an average game but they will 4 Savage

 

[Diehard Saint]

We can argue the stats re Long and Savage till the cows come home, but at this stage I’m going with Ratts.

He’s done very little wrong thus far.