Autopsy Geelong loses to Doggies by 16 points // Rd 16 2019

[Landgraft]

I feel dirty defending guth, but to be fair he was pushed in the back first. But of course the umpire disregarded that and paid the 2nd push from guthrie. Umpiring was garbage all night.

On a pretty grim night that moment of pinball made me smile. Absurd moments look good on Footy.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Add Duncan from my pov.

At the start of the year 1-2 games had been played maximum - i heard Malthouse on the radio discussing Geelongs midfield

With Selwood - he had tremendous admiration- called him a warrior an inspirational captain the lot

Dangerfield the same - huge wrap

With Kelly ( and bear in mind it was early in the season ) he said Kelly has been quite good in his career to date

But with Duncan - all Mick said was - oh Duncan can be allright now and again - there was no rap for Duncan at all - the way he said it

 

[Vdubs]

I think there have been multiple games where we have done this style this year but got away with it.. too many times we rate our perfromance on W and L ... how many times we are lucky to escape a club just not shooting the lights out with their scoring... I certainly think the last 4 week since the focus on our inbound ball was highlighted we have looked far more like last year.

Having our best players available when it counts will help.. Having them in form will help. Having us play a style that puts pressure on opponents and less on our our players would help.

Am I more convince or less convinced we have the game style to handle finals pressure after the last 4 weeks? Less. Are we now playing a style that suits the G better ..maybe ..but if the players can not standup to stressfull skill performance better than we have in the past .. then we will fall like a thrill seeker on the end of a snapped bungie rope... again.

This week V Saints will be another week that tells us very little.. unless we lose.

True.
Why is every conversation tempered by the possibility of us failing yet again in finals like pressure?
We are not owed any guarantee that we will do better this year.
At the start of this season, where did you truthfully have us? Low top 8, just outside?
We have overachieved and it has given many supporters possible false hope that we are the team to beat.
If we start to perform in this half season the way we were speculated to, like 4-6 or worse, after our 11-1 start, that would be still a great season, but more realistic.
We simply do not have the personnel to handle intense pressure on the player with the ball- we changed things up a lot at start of this year, and we caught some teams napping, but trust my long term following of Geelong, we are not a truly awesome team; we need everything to fall in place for us. We have done exceptionally well, but I am prepared for reality, whatever that is.

 

[Vdubs]

At the start of the year 1-2 games had been played maximum - i heard Malthouse on the radio discussing Geelongs midfield

With Selwood - he had tremendous admiration- called him a warrior an inspirational captain the lot

Dangerfield the same - huge wrap

With Kelly ( and bear in mind it was early in the season ) he said Kelly has been quite good in his career to date

But with Duncan - all Mick said was - oh Duncan can be allright now and again - there was no rap for Duncan at all - the way he said it

Tbh, I have never been a huge admirer of Duncan, and I had not heard that MM comment. He has been let loose sometimes because of GAJ, Selwood, Danger, Kelly getting attention, but he is not great at any single aspect of play, and is a B grader through and through. I do not expect any more from him. He tries hard, but is limited. Not to say I don't rate him in our team- he has a role, but will never be AA or in our best 3 mids. Even his reputed strength of passing, kicking- that has been really poor at times.

 

[romeohwho]

At the start of the year 1-2 games had been played maximum - i heard Malthouse on the radio discussing Geelongs midfield

With Selwood - he had tremendous admiration- called him a warrior an inspirational captain the lot

Dangerfield the same - huge wrap

With Kelly ( and bear in mind it was early in the season ) he said Kelly has been quite good in his career to date

But with Duncan - all Mick said was - oh Duncan can be allright now and again - there was no rap for Duncan at all - the way he said it

Don’t know why Duncan has quickly become a target on our thread. He’s always had a slight tendency to be inconsistent -sometimes terrific, sometimes ordinary. He played some very good footy earlier this year and is important to the team when he’s linking up and hitting targets. However he’s been off for a few weeks and it’s impacting. Hopefully he can lift and I can’t see him being dropped. The whole team lacked intensity and energy the last couple of weeks, so plenty of room for improvement from lots of players. I’m not too worried - a few weaker games is to be expected in this comp and it’s not like we are a super team. We are a good team and will be ok.

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

Watch them put Henderson in the team this week.

By the sounds of it, they need to bring in Scooter, I'm told he's been awesome in the 2's, a tackling machine.

 

[Vdubs]

Don’t know why Duncan has quickly become a target on our thread. He’s always had a slight tendency to be inconsistent -sometimes terrific, sometimes ordinary. He played some very good footy earlier this year and is important to the team when he’s linking up and hitting targets. However he’s been off for a few weeks and it’s impacting. Hopefully he can lift and I can’t see him being dropped. The whole team lacked intensity and energy the last couple of weeks, so plenty of room for improvement from lots of players. I’m not too worried - a few weaker games is to be expected in this comp and it’s not like we are a super team. We are a good team and will be ok.

You just answered the reasons.
But when he recurrently recently makes a mess of the basics, the area he normally is good at (kicking) it frustrates more.
I suspect a possible injury that affects kicking, no reason other than the howlers are uncharacteristic, but becoming repeated.

 

[romeohwho]

You just answered the reasons.
But when he recurrently recently makes a mess of the basics, the area he normally is good at (kicking) it frustrates more.
I suspect a possible injury that affects kicking, no reason other than the howlers are uncharacteristic, but becoming repeated.

Yep but when a player with very good skills, who usually makes good decisions, is down for a few weeks -do you drop him? Nope. What’s the value in that? Don’t you think the club presumably works with him or manages the injury if that’s what it is, and supports him and expects him to come good?
And yep- I have yelled at Duncan a few times lately myself!
And I’ve yelled at Hawkins to lead to the ball. And Henry for holding on to the ball for 10 minutes. And a few others. But they can all mostly stay in the team for mine!

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Every side struggles under heavy pressure. The challenge with being considered the best side in the competition is you get hunted more often. Geelong is feeling this now.

All you can do is match the intensity / pressure being faced. Or better it. Then hope your side is the one with the talent to prevail, all else being equal. The problem last night was, all else wasn't equal, as you know.

Our issue with their defensive pressure aside, the Dogs should not have been able to move the ball the way they did, to find space the way they did, etc.

Guthrie's presence in such a game is all but non existent. I kept a close eye on my boy at Marvel last night, he just creates nothing. Unless the ball falls in his direction he's out of the contest. The club is only playing him now because of the money invested IMO... He's warming the bench now more often than not. I've never seen the club manage a player worse than Cameron Guthrie.

Agree 100% that modern day football is all about who can apply the most pressure and intensity wins games.

Things have completely changed in that direction. All teams who lose games look pressured and slow.

Still the obsession about Guthrie??

He has actually done ok since coming in. His a solid good player. Every team needs them for balance

 

[Turbocat]

True.
Why is every conversation tempered by the possibility of us failing yet again in finals like pressure?
We are not owed any guarantee that we will do better this year.
At the start of this season, where did you truthfully have us? Low top 8, just outside?
We have overachieved and it has given many supporters possible false hope that we are the team to beat.
If we start to perform in this half season the way we were speculated to, like 4-6 or worse, after our 11-1 start, that would be still a great season, but more realistic.
We simply do not have the personnel to handle intense pressure on the player with the ball- we changed things up a lot at start of this year, and we caught some teams napping, but trust my long term following of Geelong, we are not a truly awesome team; we need everything to fall in place for us. We have done exceptionally well, but I am prepared for reality, whatever that is.

If the game style that is played now reduces the enjoyment factor down to the basis of win or not then ..thats what they should be judged by. The weekly wins that we experience now are sometimes barely entertaining. The goals Miers have kicked this year have been unusual.. they have made me think a player can still play on instinct.. but then at times our wins have had less excitement than some TV cooking show where the contestants are assembling a croquembouche .. thru theseason..it appears to be about nothing more than build a win tally to qualify.

Now sure our wins have got us in a outstanding position but I have heard very few that think we a re a dominant side like 10 years ago. Our over achiement ..as you call it says more about our opponents than us.. they are flawed as well. Overachievement is only credible if you achieve.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Now sure our wins have got us in a outstanding position but I have heard very few that think we a re a dominant side like 10 years ago. Our over achiement ..as you call it says more about our opponents than us.. they are flawed as well. Overachievement is only credible if you achieve.

I think Essendon is a good example of that point

Last year when the Dons flogged us - they played quick attacking exciting football - and Geel simply couldnt keep up . And they did the same to the Eagles in Perth - with that quick attacking play from half back line- they tore the Eagles to pieces

However when we played Ess this year - in the 3rd qtr - Geel walzed - walked through 4 or 5 of the softest blooody goals ive seen in my life - it wasnt anything special from the Cats - it was just there was very little opposition

 

[Vdubs]

Yep but when a player with very good skills, who usually makes good decisions, is down for a few weeks -do you drop him? Nope. What’s the value in that? Don’t you think the club presumably works with him or manages the injury if that’s what it is, and supports him and expects him to come good?
And yep- I have yelled at Duncan a few times lately myself!
And I’ve yelled at Hawkins to lead to the ball. And Henry for holding on to the ball for 10 minutes. And a few others. But they can all mostly stay in the team for mine!

I'm not into dropping Duncan, or Guthrie. Or Henry, or Stanley. Or Tuohy. But Duncan is down.
They are allowed these games, and it's to be expected somewhat.
What you said has been my argument all along. Insert whatever name is relevant.

 

[Cattery]

Every week it's talk of the flag or not... Let's wait and see where we finish, win a final or 2, and then talk GF's
Who says game plan no good?
My major point is our actual list. Not saying we have a poor list, but certainly no better than any top 8 team, including Port. Without Sav, we look lost on the forward line, and Rohan has gone back to his Swans
form. If we are to rely on Buzza to take the slack, we are in some trouble.

Think it was some bloke called Vdubs, asked which teams were best equipped to progress come September given every factor such as Rucks, MF, Forwards, Defence, HGA, Class/Skill, Speed, Coach and Gameplan, and thought we only came out ahead with Coach and defence, which means our gameplay apparently doesn't stack up compared to the other finalists.

Good post.
I am realistically thinking we could win 2 more h & a games this year- Saints and Carlton.
Losses against Lions, Swans, NM, Freo, Hawks are very possible.
In that scenario, 14-8, we could still win the flag. No double byes, no expectations.

Getting a bit carried away there methinks, the way Carlton are going at the moment reckon we could very easily drop that one as well, which means, "if" we beat the Saints we could finish 13/8 and possibly miss the finals altogether.

 

[mcwilrob]

Means little come finals.

Especially given our absolutely sh!te finals record

 

[Nickoo]

I thought 2e had been ordinary for a while, but many disagree.

Yeah I thought so to but Sat night was possibly one of his best games so far. Looked like turned a corner but others obviously want him dropped. There might be a reason why we stopped in last qtr. Should have won it in the first.


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[Nickoo]

My biggest fear is that a likely top two finish and ‘home final’ will be negated by playing a big Victorian club at the ‘G where our supporters are outnumbered.

I’ve played around with a couple of ladder predictors today, one in which we only lose one more game (Brisbane) and one in which we lose another three to finish with a 16-6 records.

The first scenario ends in:

Geelong
WCE
GWS
Collingwood

The second scenario ends in:

WCE
Geelong
GWS
Collingwood

We would be CLEARLY be better off finishing 2nd in those scenarios.

Right now that’s my main concern.

I know our team is good enough, albeit we need to tinker with the 22 we put out last night. Ratugolea is one of our most structurally important players and it’s no surprise most of our best performances against good sides this year have been with him in the team.

We were flat last night and we experimented with a few things I don’t want to see in the finals unless we are in a crisis (Blicavs in the ruck, Taylor forward, Ablett lots of midfield minutes). We kicked for goal poorly and most of our key players were down. We should have been 5-6 goals up in the first half. Yet we were still a chance even with a couple of minutes left - something that has been common in all three of our losses.

To me that shows we are not a team that will get blown out of the water. WCE, GWS and Collingwood have all had 40+ losses this season. We haven’t had a loss over three goals....

Agreed. We haven’t been disinterested. 2e looked so peeved after the game in the interview I thought he was going to lose it.


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[Nickoo]

I hear what you're saying, and in some ways would be willing to try it...... But therein lays some of our problems.

We've been shoehorning guys into the side, simply to keep them within it, rather than simply picking the best player for each position and retaining the integrity of our structure.

We're behind the 8 ball from the moment the MC convenes of late.

Same as last year. Looked like when we started season we were over that but back to bad habits and losing.


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[Nickoo]

Guthrie has shown those signs for a while. Becoming more evident it seems.

I'd drop Guthrie, give Atkins a spell, and bring in Constable, then look for Parfitt, Menegola and even SS. No particular order.

Seems reasonable. Need hard edge back tackling harassing and accuracy.


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[Nickoo]

Add Duncan from my pov.

Down on Mitch as well but a poster after rich game indicated that sides were targeting him with pressure such that he hasn’t the time and space. So he needs an overall team effort in order to perform at his best possibly.


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[Nickoo]

He was OK, rated in the second half of the side by Champion.. that's where I would have had him.

To expand though, we controlled 3 quarters of that game. I'd expect someone in his role to register the stats he did. He got on the end of some good work and kicked 2 goals, finished well. Do I think he really influenced the game much, ultimately? No. He rode with the flow, which would be Guthrie's legacy if he never played again.

Where is he in the games that are really tough? Absent. Is he alone? No. But he's a senior player now, he's never one to buck the trend, he's never in the bests.. let alone BOG. Why not? 150 game senior player, playing midfield, ample opportunity? Why not?

The bar for him is extremely low for those supporting him, I believe the club's bar is similarly low. -4m gained from 12 disposals? How would you rate Guthrie's performance last night? Who was worse?

Other than the Adel game ‘16 he hasn’t turned a game towards us since.


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[witsend]

July 29, 2018.
North Melbourne (81) defeat West Coast (41).

July 8, 2017.
St Kilda (138) defeat Richmond (71).

July 23, 2016.
St Kilda (75) defeat Western Bulldogs (60).

July 31, 2015.
Richmond (71) defeat Hawthorn (53).

July 4, 2014.
North Melbourne (108) defeat Hawthorn (88).

July 6, 2013.
Geelong (82) defeat Hawthorn (72).

I have a very close family member who coaches at an elite level in the AFL system. How it was described to me is:
Likely certain finalists are tapered in training at this time of year. Drills are not as often full ground. A 10 minute drill becomes an 8 minute drill. The changes are in the order of 20%.
Players and teams simply can’t be caned on the track physically and psychologically for 23 rounds and be expected to be at their peak in September. It’s not to say losses are orchestrated. It is just that they, in small numbers, are seen as acceptable collateral damage.
Also sometimes you just have a s**t game or two...


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[Falconx]

Maybe it's just for me but I think Hawkins plays worse when Danger is i50 with him. Whenever they are both deep it always seems like Hawkins is hesitant with his positioning to try and not get in the way of Danger. I just see it too much like Danger is trying to be the main man when he should always be playing second fiddle to Hawkins. I think Sav has a better understanding of how to position himself without hindering Hawkins positioning. Again this might just be and I could be entirely wrong.

Also stop using Dahlhaus as your forward target, he'll never mark it.

 

[David the Cat]

Watch them put Henderson in the team this week.

logical replacement for Kolo if he doesn't come up......

 

[Nickoo]

I believe the MC have strayed from the adherence to structure that they showed early in the season, and in doing so, have disrupted the continuity of our game plan and players.

Hence, repair work is necessary I believe, but the MC have to re-focus on structure to succeed.

Absolutely. But not against trying new things.


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[Nickoo]

Is it just me or do others think the coach didn't appear too perturbed at the loss in the post match presser?

And me. Same as bucks. Both looked to me somewhat relieved.




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