Rumour GFC 2021 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists... Part II

[Shadow89]

Starting a mock draft

Why would I need to have a thick skin lol? Just a bit of fun?

 

[Shadow89]

I didnt write that post....why are you applying it to me...??

It's hardly the type of post I would agree with....direct me to the post number where I "liked" that particular post please..be buggered if I can find it..

For posterity - Page 242 / Post 6027

Probably didn't even register that you 'liked' it, as I don't with most posts, haha. Such is the fleeting nature of forum posts

 

[David the Cat]

Tell me this was not personal ..and all about football

I assume you're all filthy rich now right? You put your house on Richmond half way through the second quarter of the 2020 GF right? Same in the 2019 prelim final? And I assume you layed Geelong at half time in round 23 this year right?

After all everyone knew Geelong couldn't possibly win the flag. Right? If you really did know that you could've easily made 10x your money over the last 3 years.

So are you filthy rich?

OK....thanks to others I have found the post you are referring to.

I liked the last sentence and still do.

Apart from the last sentence the rest was intemperate I agree, but its content, hardly worthy of a response. I read it I suspect with a view that the poster was using the collective "you" for the bulk of the post.

As a Mod, I do my best to either delete personal attacks, or sanction the perpetrators and I think my record reflects that. On this occasion, clearly at the time I didnt pick up on the interaction as deserving sanction or Moderator input. On second reading, it is clear the poster was a bit worked up and certainly over the top with his rhetoric.

If it continues, then you can be sure I'll have an eye out for it.

I am sorry you have been disturbed by my input on the offending post...I'm sure you understand that I (and the others) read literally hundreds of posts every day....sometimes they get away from us....I'll try to do better in future.

 

[Footy Smarts]

You want discuss it. I presume not ... but the personal stuff is by and large unnecessary. The rich personal comment stuff is totally ridiculous. I do not bet on football, and just because I disagree with the clubs approach for years now, has not meant I have stopped hoping for us to win. If you are happy with what the last ten years have delivered good luck to you.

It wasn't in any way meant as a personal attack and of course betting on football is optional. It was merely pointing out that the idea that Geelong couldn't possibly win the flag was completely at odds with the general perception from football followers. Suggesting that we were just settling for prelim finals with a team that clearly wasn't good enough is absolute revisionist nonsense.

No I don't consider that we've been successful the last 10 years. I don't consider a prelim final loss a successful season. But I also don't think that just because you didn't win the flag that it was a terrible decision to do everything humanly possible to win it. Or that you somehow could've known beforehand that it definitely wouldn't work out.

So criticise the club all you want. Questioning tactics or selection or recruiting or whatever is perfectly fine and reasonable.

But don't pretend that Hocking talking about competing means settling for mediocrity. He clearly means the club wants to win the flag next year. And if we're not trying to win the flag with the type of list we currently have then we may as well fold the club. If we're not trying to win with this list we'll go into almost every season finding an excuse to not bother trying.

 

[ShaunWDT]

Leek looks like a one trick pony. If has no marking what can he be for us? Another sav type ute ruck?

The knock on him is his ability to stay involved in the game when hes not marking the footy, will be something he needs to work on once in the AFL system, also probably needs 10kg to be a realistic afl prospect hes far from the finished product, lot of skinny intercept defenders this draft pool, remains to be seen how many can actually hold their own in the grade.

 

[Tony Barber]

After Fejo's first 3 baulks, the word that immediately sprang to my mind was "Smedts"; he used to kill them in exactly the same way among the kids, but never came to terms with the fact that in the AFL they were all just as big and fast and agile as him.

Bingo!
Someone will grab him. He has good skill.
But he's not getting away with all those baulks at afl level. He had a ton of space.
And most of the footage seemed to be on the wing. I can't see a fit.

I also picked up something that seemed to show he was a bit of a deer in the headlights up forward.

And it was SANFL reserves correct?
If he doesn't get picked up we should offer him a VFL contract. He can continue with the party tricks.

 

[Turbocat]

It wasn't in any way meant as a personal attack and of course betting on football is optional. It was merely pointing out that the idea that Geelong couldn't possibly win the flag was completely at odds with the general perception from football followers. Suggesting that we were just settling for prelim finals with a team that clearly wasn't good enough is absolute revisionist nonsense.

No I don't consider that we've been successful the last 10 years. I don't consider a prelim final loss a successful season. But I also don't think that just because you didn't win the flag that it was a terrible decision to do everything humanly possible to win it. Or that you somehow could've known beforehand that it definitely wouldn't work out.

So criticise the club all you want. Questioning tactics or selection or recruiting or whatever is perfectly fine and reasonable.

But don't pretend that Hocking talking about competing means settling for mediocrity. He clearly means the club wants to win the flag next year. And if we're not trying to win the flag with the type of list we currently have then we may as well fold the club. If we're not trying to win with this list we'll go into almost every season finding an excuse to not bother trying.

Lets just say... you rate our list better than I. The names are good but the list we have is not as good as some think. Its good enough for us to be in and around. It has the wrong age profile to win the flag. Our best chance to win it with those names is gone.

I do not love the idea of us losing, nor would I wish for it, or make money from it. Its from years of experiencing us being mediocre that drives my pov that being in and around finals in the end means little. Finishing short of winning in one single year, is not a crime or necessarily a bad thing if you are still on the up. The Dogs for instance this year. I see them as at the peak and/or on the way up. I do not see us as that, its more that we are continuing to plough infertile ground and it seems the wrong way to go for mine.

Hocking seems to be altering our approach our public approach to list build. Comments about youth etc. We are basically stuck for the next 12 months because of the names we have ... and thus my comment about contending. I think Hocking's comments give an insight to us moving more towards a more youth focus. That actually doesn't mean a less chance to win, if the kids are talented enough, it could mean a better chance to win it, probably the only way to win.

 

[Drunkcat]

Why would I need to have a thick skin lol? Just a bit of fun?

Don't they give people crap for trying mock draft?

 

[Shadow89]

Don't they give people crap for trying mock draft?

No-one on here or the main board or any other board has, lol? Not sure why anyone would - it's just for fun

 

[Johnny Cattery]

For me it’s more the flimsy premise that 7 finalists each year have completely wasted their time and were never contending that is utterly devoid of substance and logic.

I don't see anyone saying that. I don't see anyone thinking so absolutely.

What I see is debate over the definition of success and, commensurately, debate over strategy to win flags. As someone who came to football late I find the Melbourne definition 'making finals' weird, so we'd probably disagree over whether it's possible for a team to have a really good year in terms of development whilst not making finals, or that making finals can actually be negative if it disguises the fact that a list is not ultimately competitive.

Cook admitted two or three years ago that the notion of contending was a) based on making prelim finals and b) based on remaining commercially viable as a consequence. Most people don't follow the club and, in particular, list management nearly as closely as posters on this board do, so 'see finals renew membership' is what is (literally) being banked on. There have been a whole set of related decisions supporting that strategy: team selection (at times I've wondered whether those traded had been guaranteed games); game strategy (we didn't have the speed or skill to run and gun, something cruelly exposed in higher level finals); and recruitment and development (as a simple example, Wells being stood down during Covid).

What some posters have raised is the possibility that this strategy, which by and large has prioritised older players and trading over drafting and development, while allowing the club to remain in contention, has not necessarily optimised the positioning for winning the competition outright. The other part of that road is less tangible: I agree with Hocking that there's genuine excitement in uncovering, recruiting, developing, debuting and backing younger players but I also get that for many supporters it's winning as many games as possible that's the only benchmark.

Neither asking questions, nor thinking about alternative possibilities to what is being done off-field and on, is a thought crime. It's being a fan, but in a different way from those who believe that whatever the club does must be right. And those of us who've been more critical also have to acknowledge - and I think most do - that the club has tended to make very, very good decisions, for example, in which players it delists (Cam Eardley, I too was a believer), and obviously has made terrific commercial gains. It's become a powerhouse in a way unimaginable two decades ago. We have so much to thank them for.

Getting back to the tread topic: we're the club best placed to go after the Dogs' 23, and 32 + 50 might do it. With what will end up as 24, 25, 32 and 36 we are beautifully placed to pick up what I've been hoping for for a long time: a double-figure refresh of the list but, more importantly, a cohort of draftees to which we can add two or three rookies. It's a strategy that worked brilliantly in 2016 in netting Parfitt (26), Stewart (40), Ratugolea (43), Narkle (60), House and Abbott (all draftees). From that group we've got two in the top five of games played (Stewart & Parfitt) - of those in the top six for games played there are picks 1 (McGrath @ Essendon), 2 (Tarranto @ GWS), 3 (McCluggage @ Lions), and 12 (Simpkin @ North). We also picked up rookies Jack Henry, Zac Guthrie, Jamaine Jones and Sam Simpson - every one of those rookies is still on an AFL list and Jack Henry has played more games than any of them.

I know we've had years of busts in the draft but if anything, I can't help wondering whether posters on this board have overlooked this level of success in our trade harvest. Part of that might depend on your assessment of Parfitt (who carries the midfield defensively, and was badly missed in the prelim) and Ratugolea (who is criticised for his effort and footy nous, but if I were I defender I'd be very, very happy if he weren't anywhere near me ...).

 

[Matthew Jelley]

Really liking some of these draft suggestions and doing some research on them.
Love the building excitement to what will be the draft period and seeing who we will get.
Hopefully it adds some more to look forward to in 2022

 

[Big little cat]

I like the idea of bringing in rebounding defenders who are skilled ball users. For me Brown would be my first choice at the draft.

 

[catempire]

I don't see anyone saying that. I don't see anyone thinking so absolutely.

What I see is debate over the definition of success and, commensurately, debate over strategy to win flags. As someone who came to football late I find the Melbourne definition 'making finals' weird, so we'd probably disagree over whether it's possible for a team to have a really good year in terms of development whilst not making finals, or that making finals can actually be negative if it disguises the fact that a list is not ultimately competitive.

Cook admitted two or three years ago that the notion of contending was a) based on making prelim finals and b) based on remaining commercially viable as a consequence. Most people don't follow the club and, in particular, list management nearly as closely as posters on this board do, so 'see finals renew membership' is what is (literally) being banked on. There have been a whole set of related decisions supporting that strategy: team selection (at times I've wondered whether those traded had been guaranteed games); game strategy (we didn't have the speed or skill to run and gun, something cruelly exposed in higher level finals); and recruitment and development (as a simple example, Wells being stood down during Covid).

What some posters have raised is the possibility that this strategy, which by and large has prioritised older players and trading over drafting and development, while allowing the club to remain in contention, has not necessarily optimised the positioning for winning the competition outright. The other part of that road is less tangible: I agree with Hocking that there's genuine excitement in uncovering, recruiting, developing, debuting and backing younger players but I also get that for many supporters it's winning as many games as possible that's the only benchmark.

Neither asking questions, nor thinking about alternative possibilities to what is being done off-field and on, is a thought crime. It's being a fan, but in a different way from those who believe that whatever the club does must be right. And those of us who've been more critical also have to acknowledge - and I think most do - that the club has tended to make very, very good decisions, for example, in which players it delists (Cam Eardley, I too was a believer), and obviously has made terrific commercial gains. It's become a powerhouse in a way unimaginable two decades ago. We have so much to thank them for.

Getting back to the tread topic: we're the club best placed to go after the Dogs' 23, and 32 + 50 might do it. With what will end up as 24, 25, 32 and 36 we are beautifully placed to pick up what I've been hoping for for a long time: a double-figure refresh of the list but, more importantly, a cohort of draftees to which we can add two or three rookies. It's a strategy that worked brilliantly in 2016 in netting Parfitt (26), Stewart (40), Ratugolea (43), Narkle (60), House and Abbott (all draftees). From that group we've got two in the top five of games played (Stewart & Parfitt) - of those in the top six for games played there are picks 1 (McGrath @ Essendon), 2 (Tarranto @ GWS), 3 (McCluggage @ Lions), and 12 (Simpkin @ North). We also picked up rookies Jack Henry, Zac Guthrie, Jamaine Jones and Sam Simpson - every one of those rookies is still on an AFL list and Jack Henry has played more games than any of them.

I know we've had years of busts in the draft but if anything, I can't help wondering whether posters on this board have overlooked this level of success in our trade harvest. Part of that might depend on your assessment of Parfitt (who carries the midfield defensively, and was badly missed in the prelim) and Ratugolea (who is criticised for his effort and footy nous, but if I were I defender I'd be very, very happy if he weren't anywhere near me ...).

tl;dr plenty have said precisely that.

 

[St Francis of Kardinia]

Voss, 21, the son of new Carlton coach and Lions legend Michael Voss, was overlooked by Brisbane as a father-son prospect in 2018.

But after a superb season in the SANFL — averaging 23 disposals across half back — recruiters are eyeing Voss as a potential mature-age pickup.

“He is one of the smartest players I have ever seen play the game of footy. That is AFL, SANFL, everything,” Stuart coach Marty Mattner told the Herald Sun.

“His vision with the ball in hand and his is ability to read the play, intercept mark and rebound out of defence or go inside 50m are fantastic.

He won the Sturt b and F




On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[St Francis of Kardinia]

Does anyone know why it’s called SANFL south Australian national football league makes no sense to me?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Footy Smarts]

Lets just say... you rate our list better than I. The names are good but the list we have is not as good as some think. Its good enough for us to be in and around. It has the wrong age profile to win the flag. Our best chance to win it with those names is gone.

Genuine question.

What chance do you give us of winning a premiership next year? 1 in 10? 1 in 50? Literally 0 chance?

 

[Pollywaffle]

Genuine question.
What chance do you give us of winning a premiership next year? 1 in 10? 1 in 50? Literally 0 chance?

No lower than 1 in 18..

 

[Wellsy35]

AFL.com.au just re-ranked the 2020 draft using the AFL Player Ratings metric.

2020'S DRAFTEES RE-RANKED: Who bolts up the order, who slides?

Some players from the 2020 draft class shone this season, but others took a while to get going

www.afl.com.au

Made for some interesting reading. Take out Holmes’ unused medi-sub games and he averaged 7.2 ratings points per game, 5th in that whole draft class (behind Gulden, Bowey, Jones and Thilthorpe).

Looking like an astute pickup so far.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

It wasn't in any way meant as a personal attack and of course betting on football is optional. It was merely pointing out that the idea that Geelong couldn't possibly win the flag was completely at odds with the general perception from football followers. Suggesting that we were just settling for prelim finals with a team that clearly wasn't good enough is absolute revisionist nonsense.

No I don't consider that we've been successful the last 10 years. I don't consider a prelim final loss a successful season. But I also don't think that just because you didn't win the flag that it was a terrible decision to do everything humanly possible to win it. Or that you somehow could've known beforehand that it definitely wouldn't work out.

So criticise the club all you want. Questioning tactics or selection or recruiting or whatever is perfectly fine and reasonable.

But don't pretend that Hocking talking about competing means settling for mediocrity. He clearly means the club wants to win the flag next year. And if we're not trying to win the flag with the type of list we currently have then we may as well fold the club. If we're not trying to win with this list we'll go into almost every season finding an excuse to not bother trying.

very clear common sense post, well said.

 

[calder_daddy]

AFL.com.au just re-ranked the 2020 draft using the AFL Player Ratings metric.

2020'S DRAFTEES RE-RANKED: Who bolts up the order, who slides?

Some players from the 2020 draft class shone this season, but others took a while to get going

www.afl.com.au

Made for some interesting reading. Take out Holmes’ unused medi-sub games and he averaged 7.2 ratings points per game, 5th in that whole draft class (behind Gulden, Bowey, Jones and Thilthorpe).

Looking like an astute pickup so far.

I was all over us getting Eddie Ford. Spewing we didn’t get him
Rated 21st after being drafted with one of the last selections

 

[Wellsy35]

I was all over us getting Eddie Ford. Spewing we didn’t get him
Rated 21st after being drafted with one of the last selections

Yeah, he looked good in the game against us this year. Probably wouldn’t have got a game with us this year though.

 

[Shadow89]

AFL.com.au just re-ranked the 2020 draft using the AFL Player Ratings metric.

2020'S DRAFTEES RE-RANKED: Who bolts up the order, who slides?

Some players from the 2020 draft class shone this season, but others took a while to get going

www.afl.com.au

Made for some interesting reading. Take out Holmes’ unused medi-sub games and he averaged 7.2 ratings points per game, 5th in that whole draft class (behind Gulden, Bowey, Jones and Thilthorpe).

Looking like an astute pickup so far.

The word you're looking for is 'star'

 

[00VicWard001]

Flimsy?..perfect...your assessment is spot on.

But I'm sure you see, that if you rely on the contention that if you don't win the Premiership then the whole year is a failure, it provides you with a wonderful platform to whinge, complain and criticise to your hearts content.

Its plain to see......when we win, well....it doesn't matter because we'll fail anyway when finals come.......blah blah blah....and if we lose, then that's proof the team/coach/MC/certain players (take your pick) are totally useless and "look what I said (over and over and over), droning on and on ." with various versions of "I told you so."

Something for all of us to look forward to.

Every year we hear this. Unless we make the grandfinal or win the premiership, it’s just a constant drone of entitled whinging.

 

[00VicWard001]

and so if so one disagree with the premise..then its ok to for a post to be personal ...and even more be "liked" by respected members of this board. Perhaps no one should ever voice a different opinion for to do so they are wingers and complainers ...

that you liked that post is very disappointing from a mod. To accuse me of making money from a losing geelong side.. and you like it.

I often like posts that oppose each other. My like is mostly based on the fact that each point and argument as merit and is advancing the debate. I also like things that I am entertained by - what entertains me is subjective.

 

[calder_daddy]

Yeah, he looked good in the game against us this year. Probably wouldn’t have got a game with us this year though.

Oh your right he wouldn’t have got a game with us this year but he will be a lesser version of Jack Gunston