Event Club Q&A - 17th June

[g_TRAIN]

If they've got GPS data to show that they are fit enough like they said they did then I stand corrected.

Of course, they have the data.

And so do we it's on the AFL website on the Telstra Tracker. We can see exactly how far the team is running, each player is running and repeat sprints, top speed etc..

 

[George]

Of course, they have the data.

And so do we it's on the AFL website on the Telstra Tracker. We can see exactly how far the team is running, each player is running and repeat sprints, top speed etc..

I know but we don't know how that compares to the other teams in the comp and if there's any other data apart from a tracker that they use.

I thought fitness was an issue but not anymore. I think it's purely effort now.

 

[g_TRAIN]

I know but we don't know how that compares to the other teams in the comp and if there's any other data apart from a tracker that they use.

I thought fitness was an issue but not anymore. I think it's purely effort now.

You can look at the other teams as well though, honestly, I check these during most games and there is never much difference between teams for total distance covered, sprints, etc..

You could be right around other metrics but I'm not sure what else they might be looking at.. Maybe heart rate to see how hard a player is actually working to cover that distance.

 

[Verdun66]

I watched a bit of it. They were on a hiding to nothing. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. As Lethlean said at one point, they are not going to divulge 'trade secrets'. One can be cynical about that. But they are probably not going to detail the more extreme actions they are going through.

Am sure there are tough conversations at every level. Keeping up enthusiasm and confidence is also paramount, so making public internal criticisms isn't going to happen.

A lot of the real crap we are dealing with happened pre 2017/2018. Lethers even said that at one point. They can't shy away from it, but of course we all remember it though. Bad drafting and trading etc etc. All of which we have gone over and over. Nothing will change it. Last year we were being praised to the heavens for our smart trading. This year it has all gone pear shaped.

Can't help but think we have a thin list, and all our injuries have just decimated us. They have to say 'everyone has injuries' but we seem to have more than most this year. And as I said, with a thin list.

We've also known we have a very introverted group. Perhaps a by product of trying to be a 'nice' club after our problems with the so called scandals.

I am desperately disappointed about what's going on. But I will plough on as I have always done. Hoping for better stuff. I'm just keeping away from getting involved in over emotional posts and subjects.

 

[SufferingS8INT]

I missed the end, did anyone ask about our presidents statements RE our window starts next year? That was news to me and I’m pretty sure it was news to Ratten too

 

[lewdogs]

I haven't watched all of it yet but actually found it pretty honest. They're saying that our effort is poor and that our mentality isn't that of a premiership winning team, we are bringing in this Bridge the Gap idea and Dynasty program to try and get the players to understand what it takes to actually be winners.

To me that is quite brutally honest and it will be interesting to see what happens. It is an admission that we aren't good enough.

I'm not really sure what more people wanted from this. I thought Rath was really impressive and clear. I still feel like the club is in good hands.

Roughead touched on the same thing on 360 the other night, our players need to understand what it takes to be the best.

 

[Stewart66]

I watched a bit of it. They were on a hiding to nothing. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. As Lethlean said at one point, they are not going to divulge 'trade secrets'. One can be cynical about that. But they are probably not going to detail the more extreme actions they are going through.

Am sure there are tough conversations at every level. Keeping up enthusiasm and confidence is also paramount, so making public internal criticisms isn't going to happen.

A lot of the real crap we are dealing with happened pre 2017/2018. Lethers even said that at one point. They can't shy away from it, but of course we all remember it though. Bad drafting and trading etc etc. All of which we have gone over and over. Nothing will change it. Last year we were being praised to the heavens for our smart trading. This year it has all gone pear shaped.

Can't help but think we have a thin list, and all our injuries have just decimated us. They have to say 'everyone has injuries' but we seem to have more than most this year. And as I said, with a thin list.

We've also known we have a very introverted group. Perhaps a by product of trying to be a 'nice' club after our problems with the so called scandals.

I am desperately disappointed about what's going on. But I will plough on as I have always done. Hoping for better stuff. I'm just keeping away from getting involved in over emotional posts and subjects.

Think you are spot on, but the one thing is important they read the questions from support base.

They would have pretty good idea in number of areas , they are not going to throw staff under bus
on a Q & A forum …but change will happen , hearing there could be a lot but let’s see

 

[stavro#4]

Wasn't a load of sh1t imo, they were never going to answer the real hard core questions no club would. At least they have acknowledged things aren't right I would say there are many under pressure and they know they are on notice

Thats exactly what it was. They didnt try to present it as anything else.

Were you actually expecting something different?

Mowman, I had things I needed to do when you responded. I also wanted to take the time to provide a level response around expectation and outcome.

The event was a discussion about the season with the 3 major leaders of the football department. This invite would have gone out to 50k members. Yet only 500ish questions got asked. Not sure if anyone else picked up on this but already you have an engagement issue - that’s a concern.

For an event the club organised, it started 15 minutes late and Lethers looked like he would rather be talking to the girls in membership. They then ran out of question slides for the already vetted stuff. Amateur.

Now was i expecting hard hitting questions that would have made the club look bad? No. But there should have been more depth to the answers to actual give some form of an explanation.

I’ll provide examples. Let’s take the question Rath took on fitness levels. He said based on data and their eyes. The boys looked fit and the issue was effort.

Okay… there are a lot of fans who believe we don’t look like a club who has done the work in the summer. So why couldn’t they share some of the OVERALL KPIs that gives them the belief the boys are fit. It could be something like; last year we averaged X amount of Ks per player and Y amount of sprints per quarter or high intensity running and this year the levels are similar across the board etc. all GPS data they already have. Share what they know to give some confidence back to the members and supporters.

Summarising the goal kicking issue questions that got asked about Max and the group. The answer was that they were working on it internally to minimise noise and that they were doing the work on the track. What work are they doing? Because we aren’t seeing an improvement. So talk through that.

Examples of good answers they gave.
- give Leo Connolly some games
- Matthew Allison answer - pretty much that he is young, a way off and he needs VFL games to form together aswell as physical development.
- Frawley and McKernan Answer.
- Bytel answer
- Only Lethers answer re Hanners. However there should be alarms sounding when Ratten is desperate to get him on the park and is hoping he can in the next 18 months of his contract.


Answers that made no sense.
- development focus for the rest of the year but we still want to win games and McKernan and Frawley will still play.
- the answer from Lethers on list management focus post season. We are going for youth but we also want a mix.


Then there was the cop outs.
- Injuries injuries injuries.
- We look slow because we don’t have our dynamic players in Jones and Gresham. - Missing these guys doesn’t effect how quick we chase or how fast we get back to chop out the back 6.
- literally using effort as an excuse for everything. When our skills look good it’s because we brought the effort.
When we are getting pumped. It’s because of the effort.


If your someone who is into fluff and being told things are happening and just having to accept that. You probably would have enjoyed it.

But that seemed amateur, that gave no insight and I have less belief that we are on the right track now more then ever if all they can identify is effort.

 

[Verdun66]

Think you are spot on, but the one thing is important they read the questions from support base.

They would have pretty good idea in number of areas , they are not going to throw staff under bus
on a Q & A forum …but change will happen , hearing there could be a lot but let’s see

You often seem closer to it all than most. Hope you're right. More change for the better. some good work being done, more to do.

 

[Mowman]

Mowman, I had things I needed to do when you responded. I also wanted to take the time to provide a level response around expectation and outcome.

The event was a discussion about the season with the 3 major leaders of the football department. This invite would have gone out to 50k members. Yet only 500ish questions got asked. Not sure if anyone else picked up on this but already you have an engagement issue - that’s a concern.

For an event the club organised, it started 15 minutes late and Lethers looked like he would rather be talking to the girls in membership. They then ran out of question slides for the already vetted stuff. Amateur.

Now was i expecting hard hitting questions that would have made the club look bad? No. But there should have been more depth to the answers to actual give some form of an explanation.

I’ll provide examples. Let’s take the question Rath took on fitness levels. He said based on data and their eyes. The boys looked fit and the issue was effort.

Okay… there are a lot of fans who believe we don’t look like a club who has done the work in the summer. So why couldn’t they share some of the OVERALL KPIs that gives them the belief the boys are fit. It could be something like; last year we averaged X amount of Ks per player and Y amount of sprints per quarter or high intensity running and this year the levels are similar across the board etc. all GPS data they already have. Share what they know to give some confidence back to the members and supporters.

Summarising the goal kicking issue questions that got asked about Max and the group. The answer was that they were working on it internally to minimise noise and that they were doing the work on the track. What work are they doing? Because we aren’t seeing an improvement. So talk through that.

Examples of good answers they gave.
- give Leo Connolly some games
- Matthew Allison answer - pretty much that he is young, a way off and he needs VFL games to form together aswell as physical development.
- Frawley and McKernan Answer.
- Bytel answer
- Only Lethers answer re Hanners. However there should be alarms sounding when Ratten is desperate to get him on the park and is hoping he can in the next 18 months of his contract.


Answers that made no sense.
- development focus for the rest of the year but we still want to win games and McKernan and Frawley will still play.
- the answer from Lethers on list management focus post season. We are going for youth but we also want a mix.


Then there was the cop outs.
- Injuries injuries injuries.
- We look slow because we don’t have our dynamic players in Jones and Gresham. - Missing these guys doesn’t effect how quick we chase or how fast we get back to chop out the back 6.
- literally using effort as an excuse for everything. When our skills look good it’s because we brought the effort.
When we are getting pumped. It’s because of the effort.


If your someone who is into fluff and being told things are happening and just having to accept that. You probably would have enjoyed it.

But that seemed amateur, that gave no insight and I have less belief that we are on the right track now more then ever if all they can identify is effort.

Put article in the media thread about review of the reviewers seems everyone is under the pump

 

[EWarren2017]

Petracca

Buckley

 

[stavro#4]

Put article in the media thread about review of the reviewers seems everyone is under the pump

And it’s all fair.

But for me, Finnis is a much bigger concern compared to Lethers.

7 years in the gig. No reduction in debt. Even with record members.
Yes back to Moorabbin but on-field, 1 finals campaign.

More interested in failed prime time games then building a club of substance.

 

[Parkysp]

Did a question get asked about how Brad Hill could see that Doogs was out on his feet but he still took that and the last kick in?...asking for a friend that wonders about what the coaches are thinking

 

[Mowman]

Buckley

Nah

 

[Ads734]

Did a question get asked about how Brad Hill could see that Doogs was out on his feet but he still took that and the last kick in?...asking for a friend that wonders about what the coaches are thinking

Interesting it was asked not specifically that situation. Basically sounds like Doogs is taking it upon himself to take kick ins as opposed to Wilkie, Sincs etc. boggles my mind how the coaching staff have let that develop.

 

[gringo2011]

i'd pay money for a Q&A session with Pelchen, Trout, Ameet, Richo and Finnis

easily 1k if you are allowed to ask live questions

I'd pay money to forget.

 

[austinnn]

You’re telling me they ( professional players) couldn’t be bothered to put any effort into 5 games out of 12 this season. One where they were 36 points up.
Well you know what, that’s a bloody disgrace if true, and not one of them should have got a match payment for those games.

Maybe I won’t make the effort to pay a membership next year.
They should be embarrassed to actually even say that.

If it really is just effort, and I don't believe it is, then what TF does it say about our leadership that near enough 22 players can collectively choose not to put in enough effort - REPEATEDLY - from rounds 2-12, despite assumedly being read the riot act and feeling rubbish after losing?

Doesn't that coaching group think that if it's one or two individuals then it's their fault, but if it's the fault of a majority of the players, then the external motivation isn't sufficient, or the training?

I mean they gave everything against Adelaide, and then when the Crows shifted gears, they just decided to stay at the same workrate as before. They all just collectively threw in the towel?

Either they are hiding the truth to protect the club or they are clueless. I have lost so much faith in everyone at the club over the season, and I was very sure they were the real thing before so this realisation has been hard to take. If Ratten is to stay he needs a mighty kick up the arse and gun assistants.

If this is not his doing then he needs to assert himself and claim control of our culture, because we are shoddy AF right now from top to tail.

 

[stavro#4]

Interesting it was asked not specifically that situation. Basically sounds like Doogs is taking it upon himself to take kick ins as opposed to Wilkie, Sincs etc. boggles my mind how the coaching staff have let that develop.

Because the football department went down the player empowerment path.

 

[stavro#4]

You can look at the other teams as well though, honestly, I check these during most games and there is never much difference between teams for total distance covered, sprints, etc..

You could be right around other metrics but I'm not sure what else they might be looking at.. Maybe heart rate to see how hard a player is actually working to cover that distance.

The GPS devices the players use can tell you how hard they work, break down exactly how your moving on the field I.e how many times your sprinting compared to jogging.

2 clubs might have similar distances covered. They won’t be working as hard as one another if the margin is 10 goals.

 

[g_TRAIN]

The GPS devices the players use can tell you how hard they work, break down exactly how your moving on the field I.e how many times your sprinting compared to jogging.

2 clubs might have similar distances covered. They won’t be working as hard as one another if the margin is 10 goals.

The free ones also tell you a lot of that.

repeat sprints, average speed, top speed, average moving speed, time spent moving, speed in offense and defense, etc.

 

[St_Laz]

Lots of people complaining about the club not answering the “hard questions”, but haven’t seen many examples of what questions they should’ve answered (apart form something about actual running stats, that would be great TV…).

Also, can someone actually give an example of a “hard question” they submitted that wasn’t answered?

If you didn’t actually ask a question, or didn’t even watch it (which seems to be many people in here), you complaints are pretty empty.

There’s no magic answer or reason to a bad season. Like anything, it’s a combination of factors: out of forms players, ill-timed injuries/absences, poor effort, poor communication, lack of cohesion with new players, better leadership required, changes in game plan, better oppo research on us.
All are being assessed and addressed by the club to try to fix as many as they can now, and before next season. Will it result in success? Maybe, maybe not. But the seem to be working towards an improved plan at least.

 

[gringo2011]

And it’s all fair.

But for me, Finnis is a much bigger concern compared to Lethers.

7 years in the gig. No reduction in debt. Even with record members.
Yes back to Moorabbin but on-field, 1 finals campaign.

More interested in failed prime time games then building a club of substance.

Finnis has some strengths but he has some worrying bits. He's really not that interested in footy bits so really has to have people around him that do. We aren't big enough to carry that IMO. Compare him to someone like Brian Cook who seemed to always make good decisions and it makes it frustrating waiting for his crew to get it together. Lovely guy though.

 

[stavro#4]

The free ones also tell you a lot of that.

repeat sprints, average speed, top speed, average moving speed, time spent moving, speed in offense and defense, etc.

I’m telling you what data they are looking at to distinguish quality of work rate.

 

[gringo2011]

I’m telling you what data they are looking at to distinguish quality of work rate.

Most of our work rate is chasing so perhaps they are working hard but not actually doing anything positive with it?

 

[stavro#4]

Most of our work rate is chasing so perhaps they are working hard but not actually doing anything positive with it?

It can show you quarter on quarter / directional etc.

You can get a pretty good idea if we are working hard one way or the other or not at all.

It is very transparent.